Register now to get rid of these ads!

Technical 61 GMC 1500 engine swap questions

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Christopher26, Jun 19, 2017.

  1. Christopher26
    Joined: Feb 15, 2009
    Posts: 221

    Christopher26
    Member

    Hello, and thanks for reading my ramblings. Have a 61 1500, has the 305 V6 in it now with a four speed on the floor, hydro clutch. Built a 61 283 ( I know) and have a T5 out of a 93 fox body, chevy bell housing and adapter. I was originally planning on doing the swap after we move into our house and I will have a 220 outlet for my welder to weld in a tranny cross memeber, but was wondering if anyone knows a few answers.

    1, Can I mount this combo without having to modify the stock x member that it has now, clearance wise ?

    2, will the motor mounts line up from the original mounts from the V6 or anyone know which ones would work best ?

    3, Have rear motor mounts as well that bolt to the back of the block (Speedway) will they interfere with anything ?

    Thanks in advance for any help
     
  2. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 36,652

    squirrel
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    the V6 is mounted at the front center, and at the bellhousing, isn't it? that's kind of the opposite of what you intend to do?

    What bellhousing do you have? The 60-62 chevy truck bellhousing would make it a bolt in, aside from the front mounts. If you have a newer Chevy bellhousing, then you'll probably want side mounts on the engine, and a rear transmission mount.
     
    Hnstray likes this.
  3. Gerrys
    Joined: May 1, 2009
    Posts: 261

    Gerrys
    Member

  4. Christopher26
    Joined: Feb 15, 2009
    Posts: 221

    Christopher26
    Member

    Yes Squirrel, that's the set up I have, Bell housing is from an early 90's pickup, S10 I think, or possibly Camaro, can't remember, but it has the hydro clutch that's why I got it, plus have an adapter to mate the bell to the T5, Will I be able to bolt up a rear tranny mount or have to modify the X frame? Thanks

    Thanks for the link Gerry, didn't see that one last time I searched
     
    Register now to get rid of these ads!

  5. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 36,652

    squirrel
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I don't recall exactly how that X member looks...you can look at it, and measure, you have the truck and the new transmission, eh?

    That link is for the 65 truck, which is not the same as the earlier ones, they changed the frame in 63.
     
  6. Christopher26
    Joined: Feb 15, 2009
    Posts: 221

    Christopher26
    Member

    Yes, I just read that post, not what I need. I have both but the tranny is in a storage unit, will have to head out and measure it this week. The only thing that I feel like will pose a problem will be the length of the T5, its longer than the stock 4 speed, but hoping it ill have enough room that I don't have to modify it to much, Working in the street, no driveway and my daily driver so cant get to hung up on it for to ong, but I have a couple days that I hope I can bang it out without needing my welder or compressor
     
  7. Ive installed 283,s where the V6 was. I used 63 thru 66 chevy Pk front mounts and the chevy truck bellhousing. I always converted to mechanical clutch linkage. you have to remove one of the V6 engine mounts from the frame it will interfere with the v8 fuel pump. If you located a 61 or 62 V8 chevy truck bellhousing they where hyd clutch.
     
  8. Christopher26
    Joined: Feb 15, 2009
    Posts: 221

    Christopher26
    Member

    Thanks, Old Wolf, also have a hurst from motor mount, so I could go that route if it's easier. The bellhousing is from a newer gen Camaro, or pickup though. Still hydro
     
  9. I would install the 283 and retain the granny 4 speed. You cant do any modifying of the X member that would weaken it. Because your truck has torsion bar front suspension. That's why the frame is boxed and has the beefy X member.
     
  10. I used the truck bell with the rear mounting ears. and the frame mounts and clutch hardware from a 63 thru 66 truck. Its a bolt in using those parts. you have to put one hole in the firewall for the clutch rod.
     
  11. Christopher26
    Joined: Feb 15, 2009
    Posts: 221

    Christopher26
    Member

    Hmm, valid point. The 283 will mate to the bell? I know back then GM was funny about other brands. Also I don't know if its the same bolt pattern on the bell housing, You would think so but again....

    Do you happen to know for sure that the bolt pattern is the same on the 283 and the four speed? That would get me up and running for now and then figure out driving past 45 mph later haha
     
  12. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 36,652

    squirrel
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Chevy engines won't bolt to the GMC bellhousing. I think he meant to get a Chevy truck bellhousing from appropriate year. 60-62 if you keep the juice clutch, 55-59 or 63-67 if you go mechanical.

    Chevy six bellhousing is different through 62, but the 63-up Chevy six is the same as the Chevy V8.

    Rear mounts were used through 72.

    the center hole in the bellhousing got larger in 68, because they changed to the SM465 transmission.
     
    302GMC and belair like this.
  13. Christopher26
    Joined: Feb 15, 2009
    Posts: 221

    Christopher26
    Member

    That's what I thought he meant also. OK well all I can really do is measure everything and go from there. Hoping that the length of the 283 is shorter than the 305 and I could get a couple inches that way and not have to mess with the x member. thanks for the help guys, I'll post pics when its done so maybe I can save someone else the headache down the road
     
  14. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 36,652

    squirrel
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Chevy did move the V8 engine forward in the frame in 67, the frame didn't really change much from 66-67. And the V8 trucks had a fan shroud, or relocated the radiator back some. There should be some room to move the engine forward. Watch for exhaust clearance at the suspension crossmember, though.

    Do you have any plans for engine mounts? I don't have any really good suggestions...I guess the 63-72 mount brackets that bolt to the frame might be made to fit, but I think the frame is a different width, and it's boxed, and there are some other differences that make it not a bolt in.
     
  15. The GMC granny four speed will bolt up to a chevy truck bellhousing.
     
  16. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 36,652

    squirrel
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Yes, it will.

    Although you need to pay attention to the size of the center hole in the bellhousing. Two different ones.
     
  17. Christopher26
    Joined: Feb 15, 2009
    Posts: 221

    Christopher26
    Member

    For mounts I was planning on either standard side mounts, or like I said, I have a hurst front motor mount and rear mounts from speedway so fingers crossed they'll work, otherwise I'll get made, cus and have a few beers and recalculate haha
     
  18. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 36,652

    squirrel
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    can you give a link to the rear mounts you have? or pics?
     
  19. Christopher26
    Joined: Feb 15, 2009
    Posts: 221

    Christopher26
    Member

  20. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 36,652

    squirrel
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I would not use rear mounts like that....but then I also would not use that front mount, without the original bellhousing mounts.

    If you are going to use a modern bellhousing, and transmission with a rear mount, then you ought to use the engine mounts that are designed to be used with it, which is the side mounts that bolt to the block near the center. There are universal crossmembers that can be used with the side mounts.
     
  21. Christopher26
    Joined: Feb 15, 2009
    Posts: 221

    Christopher26
    Member

    Whys that squirrel? Never used them before
     
  22. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 36,652

    squirrel
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    It just seems to me that you're going about this swap in a strange way, making it more difficult than it ought to be.

    My first engine swap was to put a 396 in my 59 pickup, to replace the 235 striaght six. I was also in a situation where I had to get it done quickly, so I could drive it. Started Friday morning, the next night I took it for a drive. I got the V8 bellhousing, kept the original transmission, and made front mounts that were sort of like the speedway rear mounts, but bolted on like the Hurst mount, and used the original rubber pads that the six used. It worked, I was driving.

    Of course when I changed to an automatic transmission later that year, I learned about why you want to use the side mounts with the newer transmissions. I eventually went to side mounts, and it's been fine since.
     
  23. Christopher26
    Joined: Feb 15, 2009
    Posts: 221

    Christopher26
    Member

    That's prob pretty accurate haha, first swap and have a newer hydro bell housing so was thinking that this might be the easiest way but now I am starting to wonder. I would like to use the T5 for obvious reasons, but really hoping to find an easier way without having to start all over with another bell housing and make a mechanical set up. What do you think would be the best idea then?
     
  24. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 36,652

    squirrel
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I don't know. The original V8 truck hydro bellhousings are hard to find. I also am not familiar with the T5 trans, and what it takes to swap it. You know you'll need to do something about the driveshaft, and parking brake linkage might be in the way, etc.

    I would probably start by taking a close look at the rear end, see if it's a Dana 44 or 60, or what. Then see what ratio it is, and think about whether or not it really wants an overdrive transmission, or if I could change the ratio easily.

    These things are not always as straightforward as they appear to be.

    I might also look around for a truck that had a drivetrain that was closer to what I wanted. I had one of those GMCs for a short time, it was fun, but not for keeps.
     
  25. Christopher26
    Joined: Feb 15, 2009
    Posts: 221

    Christopher26
    Member

    Valid points, I looked at the driveshaft and was thinking I would be able to have two piece made up since it's a straight shot from the output of the tranny to the carrier bearing and could angle to the rear "easy" but again have to pull everything out to find out and then I'm committed.

    The rear I believe is a 60 but I'll have to check, and see what gears they have, or what was usually stock in 61.

    In all honesty I was thinking when I had originally got it that there was enough room for any combo, but with the X frame its a possible nightmare
     
  26. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 36,652

    squirrel
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If you scrape grease off the rear housing, you should see a number cast in it, either on the top/front or on the lower ears next to where the axle tubes enter. Or measure the size of the rear cover, the 60 that I put into my truck has a cover that is 11.5" wide.

    60 you can go down to 3.54 ratio, the 44 will get you around 3.07? I had a 65 GMC years ago that had the 44 in it, I put gears out of a Checker cab rear into it. I think the V6 trucks usually got the 60 rear. The 63 I had, did.
     
  27. Christopher26
    Joined: Feb 15, 2009
    Posts: 221

    Christopher26
    Member

  28. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 36,652

    squirrel
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    only if you want to put in an old straight 6 engine. Won't fit a V8.
     
  29. Christopher26
    Joined: Feb 15, 2009
    Posts: 221

    Christopher26
    Member

  30. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 36,652

    squirrel
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2013 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.