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60's FED enters the shop!

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by kisam, Jan 26, 2012.

  1. Don't sandblast the car. Every thoudandth of an inch counts. Get the division tech guy to check it out first. He can check the thickness of the tubing before you spend good money on bad tubing.
    good luck
     

  2. No picture necessary.

    Those dimensions are for the B/RB MoPar engine (350/361/383/400/413/426/440). These bigblock engines have two bolt holes below the crankshaft centerline, whereas the smallblock engines (273/318/340/360) and all early hemi/poly engines have all of their bolt holes above the crankshaft centerline.
     

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  3. afaulk
    Joined: Jul 20, 2011
    Posts: 1,191

    afaulk
    Member

    If it wasn't so dang far to texas i'd help with that unit. You could strip that chassis with chemical stripper (thats aircraft stripper). Just be sure and wear gloves and safety glasses and immediately wash off any that gets on exposed skin. It eats meat lol! Rinse well after stripping (dang that sounds suggestive, sorry) using clean soapy water and a scotchbrite pad. Seal with epoxy immediately! Chassis insp. will normally cost about $150 + travel time nowadays.
     
  4. I'm agreeing with"Don't sand blast it".Hand stripping is a good suggestion.NHRA rules will want a 5 point cage minimum on a dragster.A chassis inspector may want an additional hoop in front of the current one.Worst case, he may want the chassis back halfed with a 6 point cage.
    Boyd
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2012
  5. kisam
    Joined: Feb 28, 2005
    Posts: 1,920

    kisam
    Member

    Thanks for the help everyone! Ok so it looks like the 413 part was correct, maybe that will help with ID.

    Aircraft Stripper it is (Rinse well after stripping- that's funny). Somewhere I have a picture of friends and I stripping my 67 Mustang Conv (390 GT) in high school. Good thing my Dad bought beer = it dulled the burning!
     
  6. brokenspoke
    Joined: Jul 26, 2005
    Posts: 2,925

    brokenspoke
    Member

  7. Tom S. in Tn.
    Joined: Jan 16, 2011
    Posts: 1,108

    Tom S. in Tn.
    Member

    Kisam; Is this a 4130 moly car, or mild steel ? I know we gas welded moly, but we also used a lot of mild steel also.
    I believe Neverdun has offered some very good advice here.
    Tom S.
     
  8. 48fordnut
    Joined: Nov 4, 2005
    Posts: 4,086

    48fordnut
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I used to work in small acft restoration, and you would not believe how much rust is inside old pipe. When i build a frame now. I put linseed oil inside and move the frame in all positions. This helps with the rust. I have 4130 tubing from the late 30s that is still good. It was in wrecked acft fuselages that were destroyed. Just a thought for the chassis builders.
     
  9. rooman
    Joined: Sep 20, 2006
    Posts: 4,052

    rooman
    Member

    Definitely the best way to get to the base metal and be able to see any prior damage that has been done over the years without actually blasting any of the metal away. A lot of cars from that era had .049" frame rails and any corrosion will make the tubing unacceptably thin.
    If the frame does prove to be unusable as a race car you have a perfect template to replicate it. Don Long just did exactly that with the Royal Canadian fueller that sat out in the weather for years. The owner sent him the original frame and Long built a brand new one-it saved Don from having to remember exactly what he did 45 years ago.

    Roo
     
  10. dragsled
    Joined: May 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,976

    dragsled
    Member
    from Panama IA

    It's good to see you are asking lots of questions about what you are getting into, AND paying attention, There's alot of drag racers on this site that have been around awhile, It would be a shame to see you go to a sanctioned track and get told you have a show car instead of a race car, Or worst yet run it at an outlaw type track and on the first hard bounce in the lights have the frame break ,and while taking a tumble also find out the cage is junk, not trying be negitive just want you to be safe and have some fun , tim Jones
     
  11. kisam
    Joined: Feb 28, 2005
    Posts: 1,920

    kisam
    Member


    Tom, I'm not sure. I just tried the "punch test" for comparison on some .120 wall tubing and the frame. I would say the only difference was that the .120 wall mushroomed a little and the frame did not??

    Guys, dont' think you are going to offend me by offering advise. I'll take all I can get. This is new territory for me. :)
     
  12. dreracecar
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 3,218

    dreracecar
    Member
    from so-cal

    OK, So heres my $1.98

    Leave the car alone and restore it of sell it to someone that will. If you want to race--- build a race car- period!. What you have has more value as it is than it will after you replace 80% of the chassie to get it to pass spec.

    My R&B car has .035 main rails
     

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  13. Tom S. in Tn.
    Joined: Jan 16, 2011
    Posts: 1,108

    Tom S. in Tn.
    Member

    I looked at the photo of the car above you posted over on another forum, nice and large, very helpful for my old eyes.

    There is a lot of variation seen today on the old standard, but if I were to start back this is exactly what I'd like to have around 192" or 204", wide enough for a late Chrysler or a Milodon.
     
  14. dreracecar
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 3,218

    dreracecar
    Member
    from so-cal

    This is the car we race , I built it in '94 and is 193"
     

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  15. dwrfab
    Joined: May 21, 2006
    Posts: 407

    dwrfab
    Member
    from Dallas TX.

    This car just could be the old Carrol Bros car that they took to England way back when. not sure how to confirm its history.
    dwrfab Don Ross
     

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  16. I think I'd make garage art out of it before I did that.
     
  17. BrerHair
    Joined: Jan 30, 2007
    Posts: 4,744

    BrerHair
    ALLIANCE MEMBER


    Cool. Whatever the history, it's bound to be cool.
     
  18. kisam
    Joined: Feb 28, 2005
    Posts: 1,920

    kisam
    Member

    Wow Don! Wouldn't that be cool! You may be onto something. There are some "cacklefest people" who also think it's one of the Carroll Brother's dragsters and are trying to confirm now. They forwarded my pictures to people.

    They recieved an email from Don Garlits regarding my frame that read:

    The back half looks like one of my 1964-6 cars, but the front half does not. Could have been front halved. Need more pictures and close ups.


    Needless to say I have sent more pictures! I will update when I know more

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 1, 2014
  19. DooDooHead
    Joined: Nov 10, 2010
    Posts: 36

    DooDooHead
    Member
    from Big Sur



    sweet!
     
  20. Kona Cruisers
    Joined: Feb 4, 2007
    Posts: 1,076

    Kona Cruisers
    Member

    Kathey,
    I officially hate you.
    Levi

    (PS can't wait to see you guys and Tuffy at the round up! Im flying down.)
     
  21. BrerHair
    Joined: Jan 30, 2007
    Posts: 4,744

    BrerHair
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Any news Kathy?
     
  22. kisam
    Joined: Feb 28, 2005
    Posts: 1,920

    kisam
    Member

    I got an upclose look at the Scorpion V this weekend at Roundup and spoke with the owner, Bill Crosby. He was very nice and helpful. The Scorpion frame and mine have a lot in common. Bill seems to think mine is The Carroll Brothers dragster and is going to try and find a picture showing the head rest. I guess the next step is to try and track down a remaining Carroll Brother or Oxman to verify it.

    I can tell you a Cacklefest car is not in my cards. I was standing about 10 foot away when they cranked up the Scorpion and the magneto played hell with my pacemaker.
     
  23. BrerHair
    Joined: Jan 30, 2007
    Posts: 4,744

    BrerHair
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Hahaha! Actually, not sure whether to laugh or cry about the pacemaker. Can't wait to hear more about the provenance. You obviously have some good horsepower karma thing going on there Kathy! :cool::D
     
  24. bcrosby500
    Joined: Jul 19, 2008
    Posts: 5

    bcrosby500
    Member

    OOPS! sorry about that pacemaker thing. One thing I can't see well in your pictures is if the back upright to the roll chage is welded to the top of the butt hoop or the 2 halves of the butt hoop are welded to the sides of the upright.

    The picture of Scorpion V chassis on the trailer (red) is the original Garlist chassis. It has not been changed by anyone in order to "tech". First..there was not a lot of Teching going on in 64 and; we know this original by pictures of the car from 65 showing the tubing arrangement in this area. OH and Bobby said it was too. Now the 64 Garlits brochure shows the cage hoop going to the bottom rail, Vance Hunt told me his car (a 64 Garlits) did that too. We don't know why Bobby's chassis doesn't..Bobby didn't either. Only Connie Swingle knows for sure (we missed showing him the car by only a couple of weeks) and we were going to ask just that question. Now the 66 cut-a-way drawing shows an arrangement close to but still different than yours. The Carroll Brother Car was definately an late 63 or early 64 (before Bobby's I believe..still checking). I have see pictures of it with an Olds engine in it before switching to Chrysler and it had a chrysler in it when it went to England. I now don't think it was the Carroll Bros. car. BUT...will check further. I found the former driver... well there were two former drivers still around (Buddy Cortines and Willie Redford). Let you know what I find out.
     
  25. kisam
    Joined: Feb 28, 2005
    Posts: 1,920

    kisam
    Member

    Thanks Bill! LOL! That pacemaker issue was something I needed to find out anyway and I'm not sure if it was the mag or the vibration! It may have been being in the presence of the Scorpion V that made my pacemaker kick in!;)

    I am anxious to get started on this build, if we find no significant history. So any help is appreciated. I have engine parts and a blower showing up this week. Here is a pic of the rear hoop and backbone meeting. The hoop looks to be one piece with the backbone butt welded and filed. I will get a pic of where the front hoop stops and the cross support added.

    [​IMG]
     
  26. kisam
    Joined: Feb 28, 2005
    Posts: 1,920

    kisam
    Member

    Here' s more pics

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  27. bcrosby500
    Joined: Jul 19, 2008
    Posts: 5

    bcrosby500
    Member

    The roll cage upright with the butt hoops welded to it on each side is like Scorpion V and where the roll chage hoop is welded to the shoulder hoop (with the upright and diagonal) looks like the cut away drawing of the 66 Garlits car. I will keep looking around and talking to people but, I think it looks like a Garlits car (it may have been a kit, which he sold). I do not think it is the Carroll Brothers car because if it was made in late 63 or early 64 I think the roll cage hoop would extend all the way to the bottom rail.

    Now...why did Scorpion V 's not go the the bottom rail? I don't know... but, for someone who weld up hundereds of chassis, Connie Swingle showed a particular interest in this one when he heard it had been restored and wanted to see it. This was a special deal between Bobby and Don and I believe Connie knew it was for Bobby so, maybe he tried something on this one...one of his theories. So, i'm going to say Scorpion V was an anomoly (sp?) until we see another like it. I think we should stick to the garlits brochure to identify these early cars as I think all were done like that.

    I will keep looking though.
     
  28. dragsled
    Joined: May 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,976

    dragsled
    Member
    from Panama IA

    Good to see your back at it also, post some more pics, What motor are you going with? Tim Jones
     
  29. Ever hear from Garlits?
     

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