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60's FED enters the shop!

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by kisam, Jan 26, 2012.

  1. dwrfab
    Joined: May 21, 2006
    Posts: 407

    dwrfab
    Member
    from Dallas TX.

    I restored the Scorpion V and it is built exactly like your chassis. Garlits looked at photos we had before Bill Crosby purchased the car. He said that it probably was one of his , he sold kits also. The Scorpion V is 142" wheel base yours looks a little longer so it may slightly newer, but not much. Don lost all his records on chassis numbers in a tornado while still in Safner FL.
    It could be the Carrol Brothers car that was on one of the trips NHRA took to England with Buddy Cortines driving.

    Thanks dwrfab Don Ross
     
  2. Toymaker
    Joined: Mar 26, 2006
    Posts: 3,920

    Toymaker
    Member
    from Fresno,CA

    Subscrided, definately COOL!
     
  3. kisam
    Joined: Feb 28, 2005
    Posts: 1,920

    kisam
    Member

    Don, I was just getting ready to PM you! I'll measure again(I was by myself) but I think it is 150". Would the chassis be stamped somewhere? And lastly, do you know anything about the Scorpion VI - I understand it was the same frame as V? Was it ordered at the same time?

    Toymaker, I have been following your thread - awesome!!
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2012
  4. dragsled
    Joined: May 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,976

    dragsled
    Member
    from Panama IA

    Here's a pic of my ross box, I had two both had the collar coming off the flange, made yours was machined off or it's a diff year Tim Jones
     

    Attached Files:

  5. Wow, just wow! This is too cool. I'd give my left nut to find a car with history that I could afford.
     
  6. GaryB
    Joined: Dec 19, 2008
    Posts: 3,529

    GaryB
    Member
    from Reno,nv

    this is gonna be good,subscribed,way to go Kisam:)
     
  7. dwrfab
    Joined: May 21, 2006
    Posts: 407

    dwrfab
    Member
    from Dallas TX.

    The chassis will not have a number on it ,I should have said Don lost all the names on the cars.
    The major thing that I see as not Garlits like is the torsion bar . I just looked at the Carrol brothers car in a bad shot I have . It has a wide torsion bar like Scorpion V. The torsion bar could have been replaced at some point . If only these cars could talk. The axle and radius rods look correct is just that Don's didn't use the 3" end caps on the torsion arms and his arms should not be slotted with only two rad. rods.

    dwrfab Don Ross 214-327-7312 cell
     
  8. kisam
    Joined: Feb 28, 2005
    Posts: 1,920

    kisam
    Member

    Thanks Tim, is the steering column flange 3 bolts? Not sure if mine is like that - it came out of a sprint car collection.

    Yeah Kerry, it's kinda freaking me out right now - let's see what unfolds.

    Here we go again uh Gary?
     
  9. kisam
    Joined: Feb 28, 2005
    Posts: 1,920

    kisam
    Member


    Thanks Don! I measured again and the current wheelbase is 151". The arms are not slotted and there are only two rad rods. The other thing is the diagonal bracing, mine seems to be the opposite of every fame I have looked at? I added a picture above for comparison to the Scorpion V frame.

    I also sent an email to Don Garlits with pictures, so lets see what he has to say.

    EDIT - Ok Don I kept looking at pictures until I figured out what you meant by no end caps and slots. This is all a learning curve for me.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2012
  10. Tom S. in Tn.
    Joined: Jan 16, 2011
    Posts: 1,108

    Tom S. in Tn.
    Member

    Being that this car used a hi-gear setup, it was probably originally a Jr Fueler. The motor plate looks drilled for a Chrysler (?) Guessing, but this looks like a Fenton transmission adapter that might have been used as a front bearing support for the coupler shaft.
    Do you have the clutch can?


    [​IMG]

    True, if these cars could talk alright, but I believe about all you can say at this point today is that this is a Garlits style car.
    A lot of these cars still useable and running in the 70's got cut up and back halfed into new fad rear engined (front driven) cars, because it was easier to re-use the cockpit and steering and just build a straight cradle for the motor and rear axle, and then weld the 2 together.
    But this one survived. Paint looks 70'ish, and it sure has the flavor of an injected nitro car that got out dated. Jr Fuelers before pro-comp were a very predominant and active group around the Div 4 and 5 area, (one helluva crowd, and I bet you never find where a SEMA tag ever was :) ) so it shouldn't be to hard to find pics if you looked for a front motored fuel car with a Chrysler.
    Just looking at it from the internet here on Hamb, this doesn't appear to have been somebody's econo car. It has characteristic scars from one of drag racings toughest circuits. Tom S. in Tn.
     
  11. Tom S. in Tn.
    Joined: Jan 16, 2011
    Posts: 1,108

    Tom S. in Tn.
    Member

    [​IMG]

    Looks like 2 brazed together for extra capacity necessary with nitro. Tom S.
     
  12. poofus1929
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 897

    poofus1929
    Member
    from So Cal

    Nice score. I never find anything cool like that. :(
     
  13. kisam
    Joined: Feb 28, 2005
    Posts: 1,920

    kisam
    Member

    Thanks Tom! That gives me some insight. The guy I bought it from is still trying to get the clutch can and some contact information for the original owner. Isn't it kind of odd that they would run a Max Wedge instead of a Hemi. I know Garlits ran one for a couple of years but I dont think he had a choice with sponsorship. And yes the Moon tank has been brazed together. Note - the tank mounts are not far enough apart now. The chassis looks like it was originally blue. The paint skins look different - maybe a professional did the body and someone else did the side skirts? It's going to be a couple of months before I start working on it, so I'm going to keep trying to track down more history. All help is appreciated!

    Poofus = Sometimes I think they find me?:confused:
     
  14. Tom S. in Tn.
    Joined: Jan 16, 2011
    Posts: 1,108

    Tom S. in Tn.
    Member

    Have you tried the motor plate to the back of a late model yet? Photo appears like it's drilled early model to me, but I can not tell for certain looking on this screen. It could have had a late Chrysler, but I'd bet it could even have been a small Desoto, which was very popular to make a flyweight car equal to the little Chevy.

    As a side note, at a time gone by, we used to use low compression large truck HD 361 & later 413 wedges, but it was because they made very cheap blower motors (4 ring pistons and all). All you had to do after it came out of a dump or grain truck was change the cam and add a blower. But we had no $ and were racing unsanctioned gas events.
    Your car could have had a wedge, but somehow it just appears like a higher caliber fuel car. That big vent cap in the fuel tank meant somebody was moving large amounts of fuel with a big pump characteristic of a fuel car. My guesses; Tom S.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Feb 7, 2012
  15. Firefly
    Joined: Sep 15, 2005
    Posts: 377

    Firefly
    Member

    Warning, extreme technical statement follows:

    Wahooooo, you go girl !!
     
  16. kisam
    Joined: Feb 28, 2005
    Posts: 1,920

    kisam
    Member

    Tom, I have a '57 354 Poly motor that I can use to check it - pretty sure the bottom block should be the same as Hemi. I also have an 871 Blower left over from Tuffy - oh brother could this thing change directions?

    Janet - are you guys coming to LSRU??
     
  17. Damn how did I miss this thread............
    good score Kisam, just remember that old frames are hard to cert unless you stay over 10 sec...... so the flathead is a good option, plus I just like em better..........
    ps added subscription!!
     
  18. GaryB
    Joined: Dec 19, 2008
    Posts: 3,529

    GaryB
    Member
    from Reno,nv

    Hmmm,very interesting
     
  19. I SMELL SMOKE
    Joined: Mar 6, 2008
    Posts: 1,527

    I SMELL SMOKE
    Member

    o.k. i just found this thread and im officially jealous!!!!
     
  20. tjmercury
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 589

    tjmercury
    Member

    Awesome score! Congrats, I even like the old paint job!
     
  21. Tom S. in Tn.
    Joined: Jan 16, 2011
    Posts: 1,108

    Tom S. in Tn.
    Member

    I believe so. Write back, because I'm curious and I'll look around for photos that might be this car. There is a Hamb member from out in Texas who built and drove Jr Fuelers. Let me look for his screen name. Tom S.
     
  22. Church Key
    Joined: Nov 30, 2004
    Posts: 1,514

    Church Key
    Member

    Moon tanks are welded together no matter what the size. There is a tag on the tank that will state how many gallons. The fill nozel and breathers are modifications...looks like the caps came from a Falcon.
     
  23. Church Key
    Joined: Nov 30, 2004
    Posts: 1,514

    Church Key
    Member

    Here is a picture of Garlits' 66 car...note that the wrap around body looks just like yours. The article says Tom Hanna made the body. Perhaps Hanna made several of these, so Garlits' Chassis could offer you a chassis with complete or partial body.
    [​IMG]
     
  24. Tom S. in Tn.
    Joined: Jan 16, 2011
    Posts: 1,108

    Tom S. in Tn.
    Member

    Look like home shop weld, and nothing Moon, Eelco, etc. I've ever seen. Could have been a crankcase vent (puke) tank, but a little large though.
    Tom S. in Tn.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2012
  25. nitro001
    Joined: Jul 10, 2010
    Posts: 14

    nitro001
    Member
    from Houston

    Hello from South of Houston also.
    I am pulling a new FED off the jig now for TBFA 2012.
    If you need any support for the project, just holler. I am glad to see more
    of these things popping up. We live in Dickinson, about a mile from the old
    track( walmart now ).

    Rick
    713-416-5354
     
  26. We ran a cast iron '92 on 90+% with exactly the same motor mount setup. The torque side of the engine had a mount welded to the top main rail, and the "compression", or down twist side of the engine had a mount that bolted to the engine and was held in place on the upper main rail by a pair of hose clamps. Ours had no rubber insulation. The logic, as it was explained to me was that since the engine always twisted in the same direction a hard mount wasn't needed on one side, and if the car got totally out of shape, the engine would come out of the car, taking most of the weight away, and making less impact. Always worked for us. We also ran grade eight bellhousing bolts, I was told to help the motor separate from the can easier. Wish I could remember more.....
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2012
  27. kisam
    Joined: Feb 28, 2005
    Posts: 1,920

    kisam
    Member

    Church Key, now that would be something if the Tinman were involved. I sent an email to Garlits but haven't heard back. He probably gets that kind of stuff all the time.

    Carl, I'm watching everything you do on your build! Good point on the 10 second rule. I don't want to mess with this frame to pass tech.

    Nitro, we must be a 10 minutes apart.

    Tom, I sent a pm to your contact.

    Mike, I can see where the thought process was. I just won't let my Dad look at it!;)

    I really appreciate everyones input! Hopefully someone will shed some light on this soon. Ok, I ran out before work and got some more pics.

    Moon tag

    [​IMG]

    Moon tank has two separate compartments

    [​IMG]

    Judging the welds, it looks like one person put the frame together = really nice welds, then someone else welded on tabs, bracing, etc. = not so pretty welds.

    [​IMG]

    Would this be caused by trying to gas weld on chrome moly or is it just that bad?

    [​IMG]

    Maybe a third welder here?

    [​IMG]

    Looking close at the skins I found what is part of a sticker, it feels like the stickers the DMV used to give you?

    [​IMG]

    Another piece of a sticker on the cowl
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I made a template of the engine plate but it did not match the Poly. Here are some measurments.
    Top bolt holes
    [​IMG]

    Middle was 15 1/4 and bottom two were 15 1/2"
    [​IMG]

    Fenton trans adapter - anyone recognize it?

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Pic of the wheels- actually has two welds and were originally silver.

    [​IMG]

    Also I sanded a little on the frame and although it has blue in the middle the original frame color was black.
     
  28. Kisam on the Olda rear end, you can call Brad Duerst at Fabcraft Metal Works they specialize in these rears and if it is an early (pre 57) I have an extra rear if you are interested................
     
  29. KING CHASSIS
    Joined: Aug 28, 2005
    Posts: 1,867

    KING CHASSIS
    Member

    Man this is very neat!! Keep us posted.
     
  30. seatex
    Joined: Oct 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,664

    seatex
    Member

    How the HELL did I miss this??????????? Kathy, give me your address, I'm sending in my Man Card! HOLY SHEEPSHITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
     

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