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60's Drag Racing Class and Termanolgy Assistance needed.

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Motominded, Jul 20, 2009.

  1. Motominded
    Joined: Apr 4, 2009
    Posts: 5

    Motominded
    Member
    from Atlanta

    Hello everyone. This is my first post outside the new member file so maybe this has been posted before but i was unable to locate it in the search feature. If a thread already exists, please direct me to it or input something that might help.


    My question is about the mid 60's era NHRA Class structures for non rail dragster vehicles.

    What were the main classes used during this time and what were the restrictions on car building? For example, what was the differences between the Gasser classes, and the Stock classes?

    I was reading a little bit on this page about the 1964-1969 rules, but this artcile doesn't seem to explain the S/S, A/FX and other classes of the time.
    http://gassermadness.com/

    Everything on there was listed as a "Gasser" category.

    For starters, i know cars like the 1964 Ford Thunderbolt ran in the Super/Stock division while cars in 1965 like the Dodge were altered. What were the other designations for the Stock classes such as factory experimental and others?

    I assume this picture was taken in 1965 because of the altered wheelbase Dodge.
    [​IMG]

    Sorry if i made that unclear.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2009
  2. AnimalAin
    Joined: Jul 20, 2002
    Posts: 3,417

    AnimalAin
    Member

    It depends on a few things, not the least of which is the sanctioning body (if any) affiliatied with the track.

    Thunderbolts were built for, and competed in, NHRA S/S (super stock). By 1965, it might have been modified beyond the specs for that class to keep up with the match race competition. Hard to tell from the pic.

    According to NHRA, Bud Faubel's Honker (the Dodge in the picture, if my eyes haven't gotten too much worse) and all the others like it were classed as altereds. Those cars never competed in A/FX (an NHRA class).

    In AHRA, I think the class was U/S (ultra stock), but wouldn't bet too much on that. It has, after all, been a few years.

    Other sanctioning bodies had similar classes as well, not to mention local classification schemes.

    Hope I didn't make you even more confused......
     
  3. Andamo
    Joined: Jan 10, 2006
    Posts: 500

    Andamo
    Member

    The NHRA at the time required 50 cars to be built to be able to run the Stock classification. The actual count of T-Bolts varies, but over 50 were SUPPOSED to have been built. As far as the AWB Dodges and Plymouths, they weren't built up to the number 50, so they ran F/X class. Plus back then with all the other organizations giving the cars their own classifications, it got confusing real quick. This was before the Internet and the only source of information was the magazines and drag newspapers and they lagged behind getting the news to the fans. I grew up in those times and it was pretty heady stuff.
     
  4. At the '65 NHRA Winternationals, I ran in S/SA (automatic). The stick cars ran S/SS (stick). I also believe that the Thunderbolts ran F/X in NHRA...
     
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  5. Falconred
    Joined: Mar 27, 2008
    Posts: 873

    Falconred
    Member

    Back in those days stock meant pretty well stock. Almost any change would get you disqualified, from non stock gears in the trans to removing every other spring in the back seat. Stock equipment had to have a factory part number and had to be available to the public. Super Stock was just the highest class in stock, followed by A/Stock (and in '64, I think, they added AA/S) down to what ever, U/S or such. The FX cars were originally factory cars that were placed in the experimental (X) because of non factory options such as the the 421 Tempests, Nicholsons Chevy II wagon and later Comet wagon. As stated the Thunderbolts were produced in sufficient numbers to be run in S/S where as the Comets were not and had to run in FX as many of the other limited run cars.

    Gassers were generally older cars with late model engines that were "souped up" with speed equipment. They had to run interiors, fenders and headlights and such. Altereds ran with out finders, hoods, and interiors.

    S/S later branched out in to a series of sub classes that went from SS/A down and were separated from stock that ran A/S and down. The new super-stock class was more wide open and allowed more changes in the engine and drive train but kept the stock appearing bodies.

    Hope that is clear as mud but thats the way I remember it.
     
  6. And I still have my 65 Dodge WO51 A990, race Hemi car. Last time I raced it in 74 it was still SS/BA.
    Cant run it anymore due to so many rule changes for safty purposes. Mine has never been tubbed, caged, altered wheel base, and so on, only thing that was done was fenderwells trimed for the Jere Stahl SS headers, because it wasn't, it has actually enhanced the value of the car.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2009
  7. Altereds were also allowed up to 25% of the wheelbase, measured from the most forward spark plug to the front spindle in engine setback.
    Any engine setback from stock was considered an altered. And if I remember correctly, any change in steering box position made you an altered. That's what class my car came from.
     
  8. Gassers were only allowed a 10% setback.
     
  9. Motominded
    Joined: Apr 4, 2009
    Posts: 5

    Motominded
    Member
    from Atlanta

    Thanks for the info everyone and sorry it took this long for me to reply.

    I guess now i'll have to look into both the NHRA and IHRA structures for those years. Thanks .
     
  10. rfraze
    Joined: May 23, 2012
    Posts: 1,995

    rfraze
    Member

    There is some great info here. Search for another similar thread - Drag racing class designations - for more input.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. George Klass
    Joined: Dec 31, 2007
    Posts: 818

    George Klass
    ALLIANCE MEMBER


    Nope, the Thunderbolts did run in S/S (and some in S/SA). Although only 50 cars were required by NHRA to be built so as to qualify as a "production" car, somewhere between 110 and 127 Thunderbolts were eventually built.

    At the NHRA Winternationals in 1964, it was an all Thunderbolt final round in S/S, with Gas Ronda beating Butch Leal with a 11.78 @ 123.40. At the NHRA Nationals at Indy later that year, it was Butch Leal's T-Bolt taking home the S/S honors with a 11.76 @ 122.78, over a '64 Plymouth Hemi.

    1964 was the end of an era for factory Super Stockers. And the Ford Tunderbolt was the final facotry built vehicle specifically to be a S/S vehicle (prior to the new Ford Cobra Jets starting in 2008).
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2013
  12. porknbeaner
    Joined: Sep 12, 2003
    Posts: 41,121

    porknbeaner
    Member

    Here are the basic rules 1964 for Gas class door slammers (cars).

    The biggest difference between stock and Gas coupe/sedan was engine setback and body mods. Perhaps engine itself should be included in that in Gas coupe/sedan you were not restricked to brand motor. IE a hemi in an A or a Ford in a Chebby.

    I think if you doubel click the images you can expand them to make tnem easier to read. If not just copy them out of my album and load them into a picture viewer.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Nope wont expand, just rob them and load them into your picture viewer on your desk top PM me for links if you want.
     
  13. vettsplit63
    Joined: Feb 8, 2011
    Posts: 19

    vettsplit63
    Member
    from Texas

    Was just wondering if anyone else remembers the class 'Run What You Brung'. Pretty much unlimited as to engine,setback, interior, fuel, I think it had to be bodied cars no older than 2 years from new, (I think) Guess it was the forerunner to Funny Cars. That is kinda the way I remember it anyway, about 1964.
     
  14. George Klass
    Joined: Dec 31, 2007
    Posts: 818

    George Klass
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    There was no specific class of that name. The "Run What You Brung" originated more with match racing I think. The FX class technically disappeared as a class (as far as NHRA was concerned), the money and excitement was in booked in match racing with FX cars and then modified FX cars and finally with VERY modified FX cars. The line between Factory Experimental and Funny Car was always very blurred, and finally the name "FX" disappeared completely.
     
  15. NickJT
    Joined: Jul 17, 2012
    Posts: 640

    NickJT
    Member
    from S.E. PA

    I'm also remembering modified production from back in those days, partly because every time I thought I had a good idea to improve "stock" I was warned that it would be classed modified production which was a quite a bit "hotter" class.

    Modified production aka MP was between the various stock, superstock classes and the gasser and altered classes. I think MP was mostly stock but allowed some engine modifications such as intake, cams, heads; not sure what else it allowed.
     
  16. Falconred
    Joined: Mar 27, 2008
    Posts: 873

    Falconred
    Member

    My take on Modified Production. MP was some what a class between stock/superstock and gasser. Engine mods were allowed but the body pretty much remained stock. No engine sit back, no cut wheelwells, non-stock firewall or similar mods were allowed. I'm not sure but I think they could be back halfed and tubed? Some outdated stockers were bumped up to MP by their owners when no longer competitive in their class because of rule changes and ect.
     
  17. Not trying to be an a hole, but there are at least 97,000 existing threads on this. Just sayin'!
     

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