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60'-70's Vintage Oval Track Modifieds

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by john56h, Apr 11, 2007.

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  1. Indy Bones
    Joined: Jul 8, 2010
    Posts: 107

    Indy Bones
    Member

    Something else to consider: if a Modified driver gets into the NASCAR Hall of Fame, it will have to be solely because of what he did in NASCAR-sanctioned events. That only makes sense. Consider, also, that these voters are presented with piles of paper (bios, stats, etc.), and no matter how you look at it, Jerry Cook has one pretty impressive pile of paper. Six NASCAR national championships and seven Martinsville victories look pretty fine in anybody's bio, especially to a voter who, while he's doing his best, is going ONLY by what he sees on that paper. Often it's those first few "bio highlights" which have the most impact on a voter (I'm on the NEAR HoF selection committee myself, so I can relate to that), and some of the guys mentioned on this topic don't have those high-impact first couple of "bio highlights." It takes time to properly explain the influence of a Flemke, and even then you'd have to trust that the voter understands the other names, places, etc., in the story. Lastly, let's bear in mind that while some of the guys mentioned on this thread have HUGE career numbers, most of their success was NOT under NASCAR sanction. (I'm thinking primarily about Hoag and Reutimann, but you can say the same, to some degree, about Troyer and Flemke. None of Maynard's successes at "open" tracks like Fulton, Lancaster, and early Spencer Speedway would help him intoa NASCAR hall, nor would all of Eddie's small-block and open-comp wins.) Anyway, these guys are all legends to me, regardless of what halls they're in or out of.
     
  2. Hall of Fame?????

    Nuttin' I can do about it. All I can do is read about it.

    The Modified division is what really started NASCAR. Car owner Raymond Parks, driver Red Byron and mechanic Red Vogt deserve getting in there before some of the previously mentioned, but probably won't 'cause that portion of NASCAR history is something that want to see disappear.

    I think the Hall of Fame should contain more than drivers. The owners and mechanics are often overlooked and deserve more recognition. Without them, there would be nothing for the drivers to sit in.
     
  3. New Britain
    Joined: May 29, 2010
    Posts: 88

    New Britain
    Member
    from England

    Unlike pro baseball (or football, basketball, etc.), which is an association owned by the collectivity of franchises and exists independently of the franchises' owners, NASCAR is just a private show, like WWF, Ringling Brothers, or Madame Tussaud's Wax Museum. Any heritage or historical responsibility of NASCAR would probably fall into the same category as the Coca-Cola Museum's collection of Coke bottles from over the years: the world is probably a better place with it than without it, but it doesn't mean much.

    Do "we" know how it's set up? It seems to me that no one who knew how it was set up would wonder why they had given nearly zero recognition to Modified racing. With the composition of voters being what it is, Modified racing is never going to get much attention.

    NASCAR's rule is that only 5 people can be inducted each year. In the very first year, both Bill France Sr and Jr were inducted, precluding people such as David Pearson, Fireball Roberts and Curtis Turner. Maybe they should have a separate category for non-drivers.

    NASCAR's HoF is a bit like NASCAR's "Most popular driver" being Dale Earnhardt Jr - full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
     
  4. BigFeet13
    Joined: Dec 15, 2010
    Posts: 71

    BigFeet13
    BANNED

    I understand all this. I was giving my opinion. To me, any Hall of Fame is a joke. No one is ever going to agree on the format, or the people who are nominated and inducted.
     
  5. Indy Bones
    Joined: Jul 8, 2010
    Posts: 107

    Indy Bones
    Member

    New Britain, I love your succinct summaries! Please email me on the address you have ... I've stupidly lost your email address. Meanwhile, I guess the gist of this HoF "debate" is that it reminds us how passionately we ALL feel about the history of Modified racing.
     
  6. JChimbolo
    Joined: Oct 16, 2008
    Posts: 39

    JChimbolo
    Member
    from Madison CT

    This is a friends car in Danbury CT and is still run in vintage races.
     
  7. Indy Bones
    Joined: Jul 8, 2010
    Posts: 107

    Indy Bones
    Member

    That #83 coupe was built and driven by Cheech Garde, who worked at Chassis Dynamics (and later for Hendrick Motorsports.) Yes, Bo Gunning wheeled it, too.
     
  8. cfl7171
    Joined: Jan 17, 2010
    Posts: 14

    cfl7171
    Member
    from Western NY

    The Hall of Fame they had in Darlington was just fine. They could have done alot with that, but they decided to do their own thing. I don't think there's any sense of history when you take the Southern 500 from Darlington and move the race to another track (first California, now Atlanta-gee, they even had a chance to fix the mistake after the California debacle and it still didn't cross their mind).

    They lost me when David Pearson didn't make it the first year. That was a travesty.

    I'd love to hear arguments- does anyone feel that Pearson wasn't deserving of getting in the first year?
     
  9. A week ago yesterday noted race car collector JB Day had his BIG Annual Racer get together in Greenville, SC. Pearson was there and I talked to him about him not getting in the HoF in the first round. He said it wasn't a big deal for him and didn't make any difference. He did have a very nice NASCAR HoF ring. Many folks were wanting to look at it.


    Now, here's a part of the NASCAR HoF history that many folks aren't aware of. I know about it because I live down here and talked to many of the principals involved.

    Back around 2000 or so, Pearson and several others down here located an old closed up textile mill in Spartanburg and were going to turn it into a Racing Museum. It made sense because Spartanburg was a hot spot for racing teams before Charlotte became the hub. Teams like Bud Moore, Cotton Owens and others were HQ'd there.

    Pearson got involved in several fund raisers for the museum and it looked like this deal was gonna' take off like a rocket :cool:.

    Enter NASCAR :eek::eek:. They get wind of this deal and aren't part of the equation. Hence they announce they're gonna' build a HoF and send out notices to many major cities to see who wants to be the high bidder on this deal.

    Well, Charlotte was the high bidder, using tax payers money to secure the deal. And we now have the NASCAR HoF in Charlotte, well removed from the Speedway or any location close to any race team HQ's. The location doesn't make much sense to me, but nobody asked for my opinion :p. AND, my last time to Daytona, the NASCAR Daytona USA attraction was closed up. No attendance.

    Now, back to Pearson. Rumor has it that Pearson didn't make in the first year because of his involvement with the planned Spartanburg museum. His effort didn't set well with NASCAR because they weren't invited to the party.

    The deal in Spartanburg went down the tubes and with it some ill feelings with all involved. I lost track of what happened to the proposed Spartanburg museum property, which was a convenient short 4+lane drive from I-85.

    So, I don't know how many folks are aware of what happened, but you need to know. It's another example of NASCAR GREED. I have another example of NASCAR GREED from when I was working as a racing products representative. I'll save that story for another day.

    As a foot note: Apparently the number of anticipated visitors to the NASCAR HoF is way off. Not nearly coming close to their expectations. Does the remote location have something to do with that? I thinks so, but remember, nobody asked me for input.

    AND in response to the question about Pearson. He should've been in the first trip around. Even Richard Petty questioned his omission.
     
  10. Mod'driver, Didn't know about the Spartanburg story, but It doesn't surprise me a bit.

    Charlotte's "Movers & Shakers" & NASCAR make a good pair, BULLSHIT & GREED is what matters to that crowd. Charlotte has a long history of wasteing tax dollars on pie in the sky convention centers, [which has since been torn down], sports arenas, and other alleged "revenue generators" that didn't work out quite right.
     
  11. hugh m
    Joined: Jul 18, 2007
    Posts: 2,143

    hugh m
    Member
    from ct.

    Wonder how many of the old modified guys are actually losing sleep over weather "Nascar" recognizes their accomplishments now...how much did Nascar do for them back in the day?
     
  12. leadfoot4
    Joined: May 5, 2010
    Posts: 128

    leadfoot4
    Member


    Interesting story.

    Sounds like the same thing that happened to Curtis Turner, when he tried to "organize" the drivers in the early 60s, and then later, the 'Professional Drivers Association' in the late 60s.....
     
  13. Gerry LaVallee
    Joined: Dec 31, 2010
    Posts: 23

    Gerry LaVallee
    Member

    Ken Jones at Fonda in Dick Bennett's 71. Circa 1956 or 1957
     

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  14. Johnnyone
    Joined: Nov 21, 2009
    Posts: 63

    Johnnyone
    Member

    Nice to keep the slots Alive !
     
  15. indybigjohn
    Joined: May 22, 2008
    Posts: 1,713

    indybigjohn
    Member Emeritus

  16. Indy Bones
    Joined: Jul 8, 2010
    Posts: 107

    Indy Bones
    Member

    Yeah, guess the pessimists were right. Richie Evans will NEVER get in the NASCAR Hall of Fame. WRONG! Just announced class of 2012, and the Rapid Roman is in! And I'm more than a little choked up about that! Happy day!
     
  17. BKHRS
    Joined: Jun 15, 2009
    Posts: 73

    BKHRS
    Member

    I am pleased to be wrong!
     
  18. hugh m
    Joined: Jul 18, 2007
    Posts: 2,143

    hugh m
    Member
    from ct.

    Coulda knocked me over with a feather...have to give 'em credit when they get it right.
     
  19. canman
    Joined: May 6, 2010
    Posts: 122

    canman
    Member

  20. leadfoot4
    Joined: May 5, 2010
    Posts: 128

    leadfoot4
    Member

    Long live the legend, "King Richie"......
     
  21. Zoera
    Joined: Nov 3, 2008
    Posts: 200

    Zoera
    Member

    Congrats to the family of the late Richie Evans. He's as deserving as any other inductee. Nascar must have been reading this thread.
     
  22. BigFeet13
    Joined: Dec 15, 2010
    Posts: 71

    BigFeet13
    BANNED

    As much as I was never a fan (my sister was), Richie certainly deserves to be there. Congrats to his family!!!!
     
  23. The real story was that Ollie lapped the entire field two times, not one. They still talk about it to this day. Can any of you remember any racer at any time in history ever lapping the entire field twice. If you can we would like to know about it.
    When the New England Auto Racing Hall of Fame was established Ollie Silva was the first one inducted into it. Some say he won a total of 600 feature events. Others say he won a total for 1200 feature, and qualifying races including consolations. They attempted to have his exploits on the race track put into the Guinness Book of World records as the winning-est driver of all time. There is no such classification at this time.
     

  24. This was the picture I was referring to about Ollie Silva lapping the field twice.
     
  25. Indy Bones
    Joined: Jul 8, 2010
    Posts: 107

    Indy Bones
    Member

    Bugs Stevens lapped the field twice at Martinsville in October of 1977. Boy, this Ollie Silva reference came out of the blue (a response to something much earlier in this thread, maybe?) ... but, boy, Ollie was sure thrilling!
     
  26. BigFeet13
    Joined: Dec 15, 2010
    Posts: 71

    BigFeet13
    BANNED

    Ollie was a fine driver. He came out and ran Oswego a couple times. Wins are hard to prove since stats weren't really kept at some tracks. I've heard similar numbers for Cagle. We'll probably never know.
     
  27. Indy Bones
    Joined: Jul 8, 2010
    Posts: 107

    Indy Bones
    Member

    With no offense intended toward anyone, to win 1200 races a guy would have to AVERAGE 40 a year over 30 seasons ... or 30 a year over 40 seasons. I will say this as plainly as I can ... It ain't never been done!

    Anybody who claims any driver won 1000 or more is just repeating something they heard. No one ever comes up with the stats on paper to back it up ... because those stats do not exist.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2011
  28. cfl7171
    Joined: Jan 17, 2010
    Posts: 14

    cfl7171
    Member
    from Western NY

    I am surprised and elated that Richie is in the Hall of Fame. If we're using Nascar championships as a barometer, does that mean Mike Stefanik goes in one day? I believe he has 8, one less than Richie's 9. And, he's not done yet.
     
  29. Indy Bones
    Joined: Jul 8, 2010
    Posts: 107

    Indy Bones
    Member

    Mike has nine total NASCAR titles, seven in the Modifieds and two in what was then called Busch East. He will be a candidate, for sure.
     
  30. cartcoupe36
    Joined: Mar 16, 2009
    Posts: 39

    cartcoupe36
    Member
    from Acworth GA

    where's raymon? first championship car owner. and diver red bryon
     
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