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60'-70's Vintage Oval Track Modifieds

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by john56h, Apr 11, 2007.

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  1. JBull
    Joined: Nov 19, 2008
    Posts: 366

    JBull
    Member
    from NY

    This car was featured in Stock Car Magazine back in the day. I've got some pictures of it in one of my scrap books, I'll have to dig it out...interesting car....a Mustang II I believe
     
  2. leadfoot4
    Joined: May 5, 2010
    Posts: 128

    leadfoot4
    Member

    I agree. I remember reading in Richie's biography, that he and Jimmy Spencer also played that game a few times.
     
  3. Richie's book talks about how he would have a rig set up on the side of the road as he'd tried to fool Cook into thinking he was headed one direction, while Evans already had loaded another rig to go somewhere else. Mind games folks!!! Sometimes Richie's wife would be at a track and Cook would ask, where's Richie??? the games would go on forever!
     
  4. kt
    Joined: Jun 22, 2010
    Posts: 41

    kt
    Member

    JBull.....The picture of the V9 Mustang appears to be at Oswego. Looks like the back straight grandstands in the picture......It very well could be in 1969, the year the mods returned to the Big O..............
     
  5. kholm65
    Joined: Jan 10, 2010
    Posts: 145

    kholm65
    Member
    from NY

    Thanks JBull for posting the Bobby Holmberg pictures! This is a great shot I had not seen before! That is Danny MacNamara's #98 coupe next to the 9A and that is Bob Johnson's #7 Mini Stock also in the photo.
     

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  6. George M.
    Joined: Jan 19, 2009
    Posts: 827

    George M.
    Member

    Yeah! Thanks for posting all those Bobby Holmberg pics, JBULL! I think I've seen them all before, but it's great to them all together again. Bobby was absolutely the coolest guy I ever knew. He was my best friend for quite awhile; like another big brother to me. The reason why I wasn't in that picture of the entire crew, is because, I was the guy with the camera...LOL. Thanks again.
     
  7. racemad55
    Joined: Dec 14, 2005
    Posts: 1,149

    racemad55
    Member

    Question for the seniors ,buick front backing plates on a quickchange rear, which wheel cylinders, front ones or rear ones ? thanks Racemad
     
  8. Zoera
    Joined: Nov 3, 2008
    Posts: 200

    Zoera
    Member

    That is one nice mod you've built there. I think ALL modifieds should be done that way, but of course you (we) cannot change history, and with the way the coupe bodies dried up back in the seventies, we were destined for the Pinto/Vegas, and later the Cavaliers. These cars get uglier and uglier every year, and even now they are allowing fiberglass roofs and aluminum body panels (they all look the same). Now there is NOTHING stock in these cars, what with Dart blocks and heads. Maybe vintage is the wrong word for these cars (how about neo-vintage). I surely would like to see a field of these cars run real race sometime. What do you think?
     
  9. leadfoot4
    Joined: May 5, 2010
    Posts: 128

    leadfoot4
    Member

    "Zoera", I understand where you're coming from, however you have to consider the state of the automobile in America today, To my understanding, "modifieds" were derived from cars that at one time came down a Detroit assembly line...front engined, rear drive, full-framed cars. There aren't any of those made anymore, therefore there aren't any cars to "modify".

    The last rear drive, front engined car made was the '96 Impala SS/Buick Roadmaster....full sized barges. Before that, the Monte Carlo/Grand Prix/Buick Regal, and Ford's LTDII in the late 80s. The few of these that are still around are being raced as "super stocks". The "horse got out of the barn" back in the early 70s, with respect to the modifieds, and it's impossible to turn the clock back.
     
  10. 4everblue
    Joined: Apr 13, 2007
    Posts: 376

    4everblue
    Member


    Ford Crown Vics and Mercury Grand Marquis have full frames and rear wheel drive. Camaros and Mustangs have been modified for racing since they came out even if they don't have full frames.
     
  11. Rentawrench
    Joined: Jan 16, 2010
    Posts: 46

    Rentawrench
    Member

    Well on the Richie /Jerry / Bob Mc thing they did run a widweek track in Canada ( paved ) Bob Mc was a RACERan raced where the money was.

    Bob ran paved alot early But DIRT paid Better later.

    I crewed for Jerry Cook an Neither trust the other, I remember one NY State Fair weekend ," Lets Both just take the familys( crews too )to the Fair " Nope off to Stafford we went.( Jerry crew chief's wife was staying at Richies) Racing paid the Bills .


    On the wheel cly on Buick brakes,it depends on the balance needed( more front to rear) as in the old cars they ran only one master. But if your using a double master/pedal assy ( modern style ) use the same size.
     
  12. Zoera
    Joined: Nov 3, 2008
    Posts: 200

    Zoera
    Member

    I know where the 'modified' term came from, and I'm not being unrealistic about my love of these coupes. I'm just quite excited when I see a newer vintage modified built. I may build one myself one of these days. I just would love to see a club that would 'race' these newer coupes. The last one I remember was the #83 SK mod that ran at Stafford back in 1983 or so. That car actually was a Chassis Dynamics built car and was much like Shamrock's car (or vice versa). This car was legal throughout the eighties and I think still runs in certain vintage events (see New Hampshire Speedway Vintage Weekend).

    [​IMG]
     
  13. JBull
    Joined: Nov 19, 2008
    Posts: 366

    JBull
    Member
    from NY

    another shot of that coupe....did Bo Gunning run that at Stafford or the name Cheech Guard (spelling) pops into my head...

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  14. JBull
    Joined: Nov 19, 2008
    Posts: 366

    JBull
    Member
    from NY

    some more Connecticut Mods featuring Bob Potter....

    Bob in victory lane at Waterford

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    Bob racing Ed Bunnell in his coupe at Waterford....


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    Bob racing both Bunnell's at Waterford....


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    enjoying the spoils of victory

    [​IMG]



    Bob Potter in Rollie Lindblad's Ford Escort #48 out in front of Larry Record #34 and Corky Cookman in the #04

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    Bob Potter in the #51 racing alongside George "Moose" Hewitt in the #19


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    Carl Pasteryak in the #75 and Brian Ross in the Garbarino Lynx #4


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    A Massachusetts driver, Ed StAngelo



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    looks like a wreck at Thompson with StAngelo #19 spinning and Allen McClure #44 getting up on the wall


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    Ed battling the #17 of Bob Fuller at Thompson



    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
  15. JBull
    Joined: Nov 19, 2008
    Posts: 366

    JBull
    Member
    from NY

    a few early shots of Fred Harbach that I came across....


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  16. Johnnyone
    Joined: Nov 21, 2009
    Posts: 63

    Johnnyone
    Member

     
  17. BKHRS
    Joined: Jun 15, 2009
    Posts: 73

    BKHRS
    Member

    Next week NASCAR conducts a Hall of Fame voting farce. As modified fans most of us thought it was an honor for Richie Evans to be included in the first list of 15. This year Jerry Cook was added. Unfortunately neither will ever be voted in, because no matter what the NASCAR flapping lips say, it is not a NASCAR Hall of Fame it is a Cup Hall of fame.

    How many years will Evans and Cook be listed and never get voted in? I think they do have a limit and after that you are not eligible.

    To me the adding of Richard Childress and Rick Hendrick is an insult to them and the dozens of retired "should be in the Hall of Famers" who deserve to get in before active members do? If the voting member do whats right those to will be on the voting list for a long time.

    Why is the criteria that and the measure is not just your performance on track but how much you promoted NASCAR (on the cup level) when your driving career was over.

    Besides Evans and Cook what do you think the chances of Flemke, Ruetimann, Ray Hendrick, Bugsy and Geoff Bodine getting voted in? Love Geoff or hate him, he had a big impact in Nascar from Modifieds to Cup.

    I'm not aware of a Modified Hall of Fame but it should also include the Woods Brothers (not just one of them) Junie Donlevy, Lenny Boehler, etc.?
     
  18. hugh m
    Joined: Jul 18, 2007
    Posts: 2,143

    hugh m
    Member
    from ct.

    One of NEAR's premier accomplishments is it's hall of fame, available on their website. (haven't learned to post a link, but it's easy enuff to find) You will find all the New England greats remembered.
     
  19. Moselli
    Joined: Feb 16, 2009
    Posts: 101

    Moselli
    Member

    JMO, It's not a NASCAR or Cup Hall of fame.

    My impression is that it's the France Family Hall of Fame. This whole thing is like a bad joke. If the voting continues to go that way it is, the girls at the Martinsville Speedway hot dog stand will get voted in for their, "Culinary Contributions to the Sport of NASCAR," before Richie Evans makes it in.

    If Evans doesn't get in the others on your list don't stand the proverbial Snowball Chance in Hades.

    Can't dismiss the contributions of the car builders and owner, but the coach doesn't get recognized for a no-hitter when the pitcher throws one in Baseball...

    As long as you mentioned Dick Childress, lets put him in the NASCAR Hall of Shame...

    Regards,

    Moselli
     
  20. BigFeet13
    Joined: Dec 15, 2010
    Posts: 71

    BigFeet13
    BANNED

    I think Geoff would have the only shot since he did have a fairly successful Cup career. He was voted one of NASCAR's top 50 drivers during NASCAR's 50th anniversary. It certainly wouldn't be any time in the near future though. It's unfortunate because all of those guys certainly deserve it. Stupid NASCAR does things their own way. That's one of the reasons I've almost quit watching (except for the big events). It's all about promotion of "their" sport. NASCAR modified drivers/owners probably don't fit their criteria. BTW, I'd probably put Troyer and Bouchard on that list.
     
  21. Indy Bones
    Joined: Jul 8, 2010
    Posts: 107

    Indy Bones
    Member

    Geez, the NASCAR Hall of Fame is just three years old, and some of you guys are ready to burn it down because there's not a Modified guy in it? Come on! I consider myself as diehard a Modified fan as anybody, but I'm also a realist. YES, I expect that Richie Evans will be enshrined one day. NO, I'm not furious that it hasn't happened yet. I mean, does anyone seriously think there's anybody in the HoF right now who doesn't belong there? Me thinks it's best to at least TRY to look at things from a big-picture perspective. I'm sure there are West Coast fans who feel just as passionately about Ray Elder or Herschel McGriff, and Southern fans who badly want Jack Ingram in. And one more thing: whether or not the black-helicopter crowd of conspiracy theorists wants to believe it or not, NASCAR does NOT determine who is enshrined. They've got a pretty stout panel of voters, some of whom I like and some of whom I don't exactly adore, and I believe they all take their responsibilities very seriously. The fact that we might not agree with their selections doesn't make them bad people! Good things take time ... but some of you folks would order Minute Rice and expect it to be cooked in 15 seconds.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2011
  22. Zoera
    Joined: Nov 3, 2008
    Posts: 200

    Zoera
    Member

    It is truely the 'Hall of Sham', as the way they elect these guys is a sham. Next we'll have Brian France for his ability to hit trees and bushes when driving home (not to mention his wife) from the bar. Too bad Nascar politics ruined this idea just like they ruined many others. It's no wonder the place has lost millions in its first year of operation. Maybe they'll close it and build a shopping mall. Rick Hendrick??? I thought he was convicted back in the eighties for that new car dealer thing, only to be pardoned by Bill Clinton. Car owners (with the exception of Junior Johnson) should be an afterthought compared to the drivers who persevered for years to attain their goals and in some cases lose their lives. I said enough, you get my drift.
     
  23. BigFeet13
    Joined: Dec 15, 2010
    Posts: 71

    BigFeet13
    BANNED

    I agree with the fact that it only three years old. But at the rate they are voting people in it will be 50 years before you start seeing some of these guys. The sport is 60 whatever years old. You might see Richie and Geoff get in eventually, but I'll bet that the these other guys won't get in, in my lifetime (and I'm 45).

    They certainly could have had a larger 1st or 2nd class, and maybe taken a driver or two from some of the support classes. It would have been a made sense. Actually, I'm not angry about it. I don't think too much of any Hall of Fame. The Baseball Hall of Fame has tons of players that don't belong and a bunch who do, but aren't there. It's politics.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2011
  24. Denny Zimmerman
    Joined: Jan 8, 2010
    Posts: 504

    Denny Zimmerman
    Member

    Here's the link to NEAR.........near1.com.....Denny Z
     
  25. Indy Bones
    Joined: Jul 8, 2010
    Posts: 107

    Indy Bones
    Member

    With all due respect, there is no room for "nice gestures" in Hall of Fame voting. I do agree that it would have been cool to see a bigger first class, to lay a nice foundation. But guess what? They also could have had no HoF at all. Talk to fans of Eddie Flemke and Ray Hendrick about how cool it was to see their names and faces in various displays in the HoF museum, or talk to the Evans fans who get choked up seeing that orange car on display ... and if you still want to gripe about the thing, I suppose for a few million bucks you can build your own! And I would point out that the NEAR Hall of Fame banquet (my co-favorite day of the year, along with the Indy 500) does a GREAT job honoring regional heroes, as does the NYSSCA dinner.
     
  26. Indy Bones
    Joined: Jul 8, 2010
    Posts: 107

    Indy Bones
    Member

    Just to be clear, my sarcastic "you can build your own" remark was not directed at anyone in particular. I just think the NASCAR HoF is a case of "be careful what you wish for." A lot of us thought the hall was a great idea. Now a lot of us won't be happy until "our" guys are in it. Sheesh ...
     
  27. BigFeet13
    Joined: Dec 15, 2010
    Posts: 71

    BigFeet13
    BANNED

    You did completely miss my point about a nice gesture. I didn't mean to the drivers or the fans. I meant to NASCAR racing itself. They need to remember what those letters stand for. I say do it right or don't do it at all. But, that decision is not mine, and in the long run, my opinion means nothing.:)
     
  28. Flan69
    Joined: Apr 12, 2010
    Posts: 6

    Flan69
    Member

    Yes, Bo Gunning ran the car for a time.
     
  29. New Britain
    Joined: May 29, 2010
    Posts: 88

    New Britain
    Member
    from England

    Guys,

    As Bones says, "There's no room for nice gestures".

    They're choosing 5 people/year, total.

    The process is that a nominating committee decides the 25 who will be on the ballot. This year's committee was:


    Nominating Committee – 21 members

    Eight NASCAR representatives.

    Chairman/CEO Brian France; Vice Chairman Jim France; Senior Vice President Paul Brooks; President Mike Helton; Vice President of Competition Robin Pemberton; Vice President of Communications Jim Hunter; Competition Administrator Jerry Cook; and former Vice President Ken Clapp
    NASCAR Hall of Fame Executive Director.

    Winston Kelley
    NASCAR Hall of Fame Historian.

    Buz McKim
    Two track owners from International Speedway Corporation.

    International Speedway Corporation CEO Lesa Kennedy and Martinsville Speedway President Clay Campbell
    Two track owners from Speedway Motorsports Incorporated.

    Speedway Motorsports CEO Bruton Smith and Atlanta Motor Speedway President Ed Clark
    Track owner from Indianapolis Motor Speedway.

    Former Owner Tony George
    Track owner from Dover International Speedway.

    CEO Denis McGlynn
    Track owner from Pocono Raceway.

    Owner Doc Mattioli
    Four track owners from historic short tracks

    Dale Pinilis, operator of Bowman-Gray Speedway in Winston-Salem, N.C.; Jody Deery, owner of Rockford Speedway in Rockford, Ill.; Jim and Barbara Cromarty (1 vote), operators of Riverhead Raceway in Riverhead, N.Y.; and Jim Williams, operator of Toyota Speedway at Irwindale (Calif.)

    --------------------------

    If that group doesn't put a Modified driver into the final 25, it's over.
    How many members of the '11 committee are going to be pounding the table in favour of a Modified driver over higher-profile Cup drivers/car owners/track owners/NASCAR officials? Of the minority who've even heard of Modified racing:
    - Is Jerry Cook going to be insisting that Ray Hendrick and Eddie Flemke should be nominated ahead of him?
    - Bowman Gray used to be a regular part of the Grand National schedule. They're not necessarily going to be a Modified "vote".
    - Martinsville - they're there because they're owned by a big corporation involved with NASCAR. No reliable Modified sympathy there.
    - Robin Pemberton is a lifelong fan of Modified racing, but his voice would likely be only one of 2 or 3 who are sympathetic.

    After the Nominating Committee has done its work, the 25 names are submitted to the Voting Committee:


    Voting Committee – 50 members plus one fan vote

    21 members of the nominating committee.

    14 media representatives:

    Kenny Bruce, SceneDaily.com; Dustin Long, Landmark Newspapers/NMPA President; Nate Ryan, USA Today; Jim Pedley, RacinToday.com; Duane Cross, NASCAR.com; Ernie Saxton, EMPA President; Dusty Brandel, AARWBA President; Ken Squier, broadcaster; Mike Joy, Fox; Jerry Punch, ESPN; Barney Hall, MRN; Doug Rice, PRN; Rick Allen, Speed; and Kyle Petty, TNT
    One representative each from Chevrolet, Ford and Toyota.

    Jim Campbell of Chevrolet; Edsel B. Ford III of Ford; and Lee White of Toyota
    Four retired drivers.

    Ricky Rudd, Harry Gant, Ned Jarrett and Richard Petty
    Three retired owners.

    Bud Moore, Cotton Owens and Junior Johnson
    Three retired crew chiefs.

    Barry Dodson, Waddell Wilson and Buddy Parrott
    Four industry leaders.

    Former Charlotte Motor Speedway President Humpy Wheeler; former motorsports journalist Tom Higgins; retired Associated Press writer Mike Harris; and former broadcaster and National Speed Sport News publisher Chris Economaki
    Fan vote.

    Fans voted at www.NASCAR.com July to September 2010.

    --------------------------

    Are Jim Campbell, Edsel B. Ford and Lee White going to carry the flag for the rare Modified driver whose name has made it out of the Nominating Committee?
    Mike Joy, Ken Squier and Chris Economaki appreciate the reality, but how many others in the media do?

    Other factors:
    - Almost every Modified driver who might be deserving of HoF died some years ago. They're not around to chat with the gang, come to events, evoke memories of what they did.
    - Modified racing never got national media coverage, or even serious regional coverage. The profile just wasn't there, regardless of the accomplishments of its heroes.
    - History has recorded the precise number of GN races that David Pearson won. We cannot confidently estimate - even to the nearest hundred - how many races Hendrick, Hoag and Flemke won.
    - For many years now, Modified racing has barely existed. Most of the circuits are gone, only a couple of the many great old events have survived. Out of sight is out of mind.
    - Much of the Modified success of many of the greats was outside of NASCAR.


    The fact that says it all is that, after Evans, the second Modified driver to be nominated for the HoF was Jerry Cook. I mean no disrespect to the man, he was a good driver, but really.... The notion that Jerry Cook was a greater, more significant Modified competitor than were the true greats such as Hendrick, Flemke, Hoag, Troyer, Stevens and others is laughable. Thing is, the greats aren't on the Nominating Committee, and Jerry is.
     
  30. BigFeet13
    Joined: Dec 15, 2010
    Posts: 71

    BigFeet13
    BANNED

    We know how it's set up. I'm sure most of us have read that. The question was, do you agree with it? If you do, fine. If you don't, fine. And again, the "nice gesture" was a poor use of words. I'm changing it to "would have made sense". It's all irrelevant anyway.
     
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