ok moderators delete if you find inappropriate. ok i saw this today and i thought wow i want one, but the paddle shifters suck!!!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Louc7MCETl4
With that TCI box, you can paddle, or manually shift ANY of the electronic transmissions that the box can hook to, and there are a ton. That must be the new de facto 6L80E. They figured out how to cram 2 more gears into a 4L80E case. Not sure what that does to the overall strength. I have used the box on a number of cars. It is pretty cool, if in no way traditional. As for 6-speeds, I run a T-56, and that suits me just fine.
It is a gear splitter scheme on the existing 4L80E hardware. I think they have methods to control the shifts other than the paddle setup. Give them a call if you think it might work for you. I drove my dad's new Lincoln with a five speed automatic, and it was cool. The close ratios made the car get busy in a hurry. The TCI setup is likely to work in the same way. Of course, if your motor is a big-inch torquer, the advantages might not justify the cost.......
yea not like i can buy it right now, i just remember driving my friends cadillac, and it had a 6 speed in it! it was a really nice driver. i just thought hey, wouldnt it be great it i could find an aftermarket trans that i can put in the 49? found it, but yea its 5000 big ones. pricy, but way cool! just not the paddles. hey gimpy remember keep your side arm on you when you are on your property! no law against that!
I wonder if they have some sort of modified valve block to pull this off. I have been staring at a stock one all morning, and I can't figure out how they would manipulate it to pull splitting gears off. Now I have to find out, or it is going to be stuck in my head, forever. Always.
They get the 2 extra gears by modifying the valve body and electronics to apply OD in 2nd & 4th gear. So you get 1st, 2nd, 2nd w/ OD, 3rd, 4th, 4th w/ OD, 5th or OD
Hell if it was just a Valve body/computer controller change (Without changing anything else inside an otherwise stock 4L80E) This would be an AMAZING chance for TCI (or someone else) to sell just a valve body and controller retrofit kit! I'd be all for it. GM's new 6L80 doesnt seem anywhere near as heavy-duty as the 4L80E's were. I'm with everyone else here.. No paddle shift please.
If it's so simple,why didn't GM do it and get a 6 speed from the git go.Is the newer GM 6 speed the tranny we are talking about here?
Correct me if I am wrong, please...........But isn't "overdrive " mode, solely when the converter is "locked up"????? Therefore, that particular ratio, is relying on the "lockup clutch", which does not have a lot of surface area, is that correct??? If so, sounds like those converters would be the weak link, meaning in an application where a "Ham fisted H.A.M.B.'er" might be driving it!!!!!! .................Interesting concept though!!!
... Lockup on a torque converter, for lack of a better description is exactly like releasing the clutch on a manual transmission. A modern torque converter is only about 85%-90% efficient at transmitting the engines power to the transmission. The locking of the clutch makes for nearly 100% power transfer. Overdrive is any gear ratio that is less that 1:1 in MOST of the older transmissions (and many new ones) 1:1 is third gear, and overdrive is 4th. sometimes you'll have a .73:1 or .69:1 (or any other number of ratios). All gears that are greater that 1:1 are Underdrive. In many of the newer transmissions the torque converter will either go into a partial or full lockup long before going into an overdrive gear. Some will do it in 3rd and maintain lockup into 4th. Some only lock up in 4th. The transmission TCI is turning into a 6 speed was originally a 4L80E 4 speed. Why GM didn't turn it into a 6 speed from the get go is probably due to the timing of its release into production. Overdrive was becoming the new big thing so just HAVING overdrive was a good idea. Nobody had probably thought to split the gears and make 6 instead of 4. GM's new 6 speed rear wheel drive transmission, the 6L80 is an entirely different transmission, all new, fully electronic, the transmission control module self contained with the solenoids on the valve body. Many of the parts inside are stamped steel and the strength doesn't *SEEM* to be up to par with what the 4L80 put on the table. I've been in a few of both of these transmissions through the years, I can say in the last 10 years I've replaced 2 4L80E's due to a complete failure. In the last 2 years I've replaced 2 6L80's due to unexplained shift errors that GM Tech assist couldn't remedy over the phone and I was told to replace them and send them back. I hope the 6L80's can hold up, they're still too new to really tell.
No, the converter can theoretically be locked up in any gear, depending on the controller and the software. I, so far, don't see anything internal that would stop running a 4L80E as a six-speed. The package that TCI sells contains the same TCU that they use for the 4-speed, and it uses the same harness. It might just be a programming issue, or a software upgrade. I will dig deeper next week, when I have some more time to flow chart the operation.
I think the six speeds are 1 first 2 first overdriven 3 second 4 second overdriven 5 direct 6 overdrive This scheme requires no more planetaries or clutches than are already in the case, just application at the correct time. Of course, timing it and modulating the transitions to get reasonable shift quality is likely more than a little technical challenge. I don't know for sure, but they may have changed some of the planetaries to get the ratios to line up properly. Pretty sure some of the OEMs are using a similar scheme on their new cars.
It is a programming issue. You can control each element independently. I have a 6.5l Inter-cooled Turbo Diesel with a 4L80E in the shop right now, running the TCI box. I got the code. I am off to wreck some transmission parts.
...and, it works. I just did my 25 mile test-loop. Unmodified 4L80E (save for better clutches and steels, etc, just nothing to make it a 6-speed), reprogrammed box. Six upshifts and downshifts, over and over, like it was supposed to do that. Works like a charm, although I will still have to fiddle with upshift and downshift points, as well as torque converter lockup points, but that is normal for any electronically controlled transmission. The TCI setup uses a few different gear ratios, likely to spread out the steps in the range a little more evenly. This setup seems pretty good, though. Not sure what it would be like behind a gas motor. This one is backing a 3500 RPM red-line Diesel.
Are the solenoid valves in the transmission PWM'd for softer changes, or are they just hard switched by the microcontroller during changes? And if they are PWM'd would you happen to know the switching frequency ?
Thanks Gimpy. I am a clutch and stick shift kind of guy, but would one day like to build an auto transmission Rod with an electronic auto. Being an electronic engineer, I would probably build and write the software for the controller myself. Just trying to get a feeling for how these things work.
so gimpy you figure it out, now how much to get one from you??? and yea i know i have to buy a tci box. ouch. but i know its worth it. im curious to see how it does on gas motor too???
GM started putting the 6 speeds behind the V8s in 2008 as a option. 2009 it came standard in all trucks and SUVs with a v8 with the exception of the work trucks (as far as I know). I think it is the same for 2010. They are getting ready to phase out the 4 spd, should be done by the end of the year. They also put them in the Camaro and CTS but it is a different trans (as far as I know).
That is just it, you don't need to get anything from me. After some research, I downloaded the upgraded software from TCI and wrote it to the box, and then risked a warranty job on a customer car (with his permission). The TCI setup has slightly different gear ratios (2.97, 2.23, 1.57, 1.18, 1.00, 0.75) than a stock 4L80E running as a six-speed (2.48, 1.86, 1.48, 1.11, 1.00, 0.75), and all the fancy extra stuff. The low end is lower, but the top end is the same. If you can get off the line with a stock 4L80E, running with 4 gear settings, you can with 6 too. It is an efficiency thing, more than anything else. The more you can keep an engine near its efficiency peak, the better the performance and mileage will be.
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