58-64 chevy steering ...

well .. i know there are a ton of posts, but i wanted advice on top of technical expertise ..

i have a 63 chevy .. 283/pg car with stock power steering

the box is loose, ive adjusted it, went over the suspension, etc .. i have about 1/4 turn of the wheel before I get full response .. rag joint is ok, i can actually go under the hood and turn the wheel by hand turning the steering shaft about 1/4 turn ..

while this isnt bad on the streets, at speeds over 45-50mph its sketchy enough that i dont go on the freeway currently etc ..

i am looking for the most cost effective way to remedy this .. i dont care too much about having power steering, ive had tons of cars without it even my daily .. and this car drives fine as is, i just need to improve that looseness and get the road feel back .. response needs to be better to be safe enough for long trips etc ..

i figure i have a few options:

- rebuild stock box (hard to be sure i will get a good rebuild, and without rebuilding the rest of the system i still will be without PS, seems like cost is $250-300)

- 605 conversion - need parts from manual car etc, and have heard plenty of horror stories, for me this isnt much of an option because of the cost vs other more up to date options, unless i could find a way to do this very cheaply

- 500 conversion .. stock radiator so no issues with fit from what i understand .. about $6-700 i believe for a full kit

- Delphi / borgerson conversion .. seems to be the best from reviews, but around $850-900 for full kit with all needed parts to put on my PS car

so .. what would you do? this car gets a fair amount of driving .. i wish i could try a rebuilt stock box, or find a nice tight one and give that a go, but hard to spend $300 on that which equates to basically 1/2-1/3 of a whole new setup.. i guess honestly i would go with the rebuilt box if i felt it would 95-100% fix the issue .. ive driven them before with stock boxes that felt fine to me, this one is just shot, the worm gear must be toast in there ..

also, if i went stock, am i going to damage the box without the PS being hooked upp? i dont assume so, but figured i would ask .. my pump not being hooked up when i got the car makes me think perhaps its not working, and when turning by hand there isnt a smooth feeling, almost like there is a lump in the turn if that makes sense .. plus my stock ram im sure is leakin everywhere like most if it was hooked up ..

thanks a lot, hopefully some guys with experience can chime in .. id love to find a way to spend $3-500 and have a NICE driving/steering car .. all tie rod ends etc are new

 

i want to know this too...back to the top

 

I have the same question. Hopefully someone can chim in...

 

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I would try hooking up the pump you have. Its worth a shot, may work. I have the stock power steering on my 58 (generator driven) It feel the same way as you describe when turned by hand and works great. Just the pump working? Also I see these at swap meets pretty regularly very reasonable

 

ill have to do that, run a belt on it and see what happens... should just shoot fluid right? perhaps its the pump working?

 

Thats what I'm thinking- just the pump working. Ecklers and others have the correct hoses for the pump if yours are missing

 

your control valve on sterring box arm is problem bad, the one with 2 small lines, there is adj on the end of it under a metal cap, pump must be runing good, to adj,

 

i'm curious what is the borgeson system? i have a 605 in my wagon and it is ok. never had any major issues but if there is something better please speak up

 

If there is no pump hooked up the movement you are getting is probably the valve movement. Hook up the pump and see what happens. Cylinder rebuild kits are reasonably priced and easy enough to do. You can also find the complete stock setup at swaps and on e-bay sometimes for reasonable price. I sold mine for $40 when I put in a 605 box.
I would like to update to R&P, but $1500+ is insane.

 

hmmm .. hoses are there, maybe ill try to hook it up and see whats happening .. i can beleive the valve would cause movement ..

are the same hoses used for the conversions if i have to get new hoses to hook up the pump? would suck to throw away that money ..

i agree R&P is insane at $1500 and ive never seen a reasonable junkyard version let alone one that worked ..

is it not possible to adjust that valve a ton so its not looking for the fluid pressure? i dont care about having PS if i can do a basicaly free fix to tighten up the feel

 

having a hard time picturing this .. pics?

my pump looks to have been removed in favor of a chrome one and never hooked back up .. i need a belt and to figure out if its working ..

 

I'd bet that the reason the pump was disconnected is because of the leak in the ram. IMHO, I'd just save my money and rebuild the entire system I had. My '58 does not have PS, but if it did I'd do that. I guess the real question for me would be: Is there any performance benefit from those other kits? If not, then I'd stick with what I have.

Fortunately my stock manual box is good, but I still went through the ball joints and tie rods, etc. to get it back to snuff, keeping components that are wearing out will hasten the death of my manual box, hence the complete rebuild.

 

Fix the stock system. All the later box installations have a basic flaw. The stock box mounts with an angled mounting surface. The replacement boxes are mounted flat. This makes the box loose when straight ahead because the box is not centered. You also lose turning radius.

 

not worried about turning radius considering how small the tires are LOL .

i just went and looked and there are a couple problem hoses.. probably why it was disconnected .. one on top of the area for adjustment that has the fitting mounted but the line itself is snapped off, and one randomly laying there unhooked?

im wondering if the new chrome pump uses different hoses or what .. damnit i wish i had good pics ..

ive seen rebuild kits for the ram etc ...

another issue is the pump sits slightly off from the engine pulley, but perhaps its close enough to not tear apart the belt .. unsure ...

 

i actually would swap to a stock manual box if i could find a decent deal on a center link, pitman arm, and tight box .. if i buy a rebuilt manual box im down $200 + the new center link and arm at that point im back in the power steering costs ...

 

Several company's make a replacement for the power steering valve to convert to manual steering without having to replace the whole center link. One is almost $200, the other is less than $100. Can't remember who sells which one.

 

ya i might have to go the manual route .. not sure yet

 

I'm not familiar with the car version, but GM also used a booster cylinder PS on big trucks. There was a lot of play in the spool valve when not under fluid pressure. Those valves could be adjusted to reduce the travel.

I would think you could take the control valve apart and shim the spool for no movement. Eliminating the play and have manual steering. Basically eliminating the centering springs with solid shims so that the ball stud still turns but has very little to no play.

 

if only i better understood how the valve worked and adjusted ...

 

i almost wonder if it wouldnt work just to change the center link attachment by using the power/manual adapter end piece .. i know the stock boxes are slightly different in ratio, but shouldnt be a big difference .. using that piece would entirely avoid the power parts and if the stock PS box is still decent would give me manual steering using a stock PS box

 

I've got manual on my '58... drives great... parking can be a workout, but it drives really great even at 70mph...

 

i agree manual can be great .. now to find the best way ..

im really wondering if the adapter and my stock PS box would work well? that would make it cost less than $100 to fix this issue

 

this is the adapter i am thinking about ordering .. summit will have it to me by the weekend .. hmmm

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/BRG-990007/

 

wlel impatience is a killer .. talked to borgerson and ordered through Summit to save a few bucks ... saw it at a few other places $10-12 cheaper but summit always gets me my parts fast, and if i order from Cali it might be 5-10 days before its here or atleast thats what ive been seein

ill report back! borgerson says that it will replace the power steering link end, and itll work fine with the PS box ... so hopefully all goes well! if it does, count this as a cheap, good fix!

 

Well if you would have gotton a "Motor's" manual that covers your car year you would have been able to see how the control valve worked,the whole system for that matter. Most cars with a linkage type power assist used the same steering box as non power. A few used boxes with a faster ratio.

 

That's the valve replacement that I was referring to, not sure if the steering boxes are different or not. Good luck!

 

Well Todd, let us know how it works out, I'm intrigued.

 

its slightly different ratio ... ill let you guys know .. i found some cheap-ish (not cheap enough imho) manual boxes if mine is still loose .. we shall see ..

and i did get ahold of someone with a manual to look into shiming the valve, it just seemed sorta hokey and backwards as opposed to a purpose made adapter .. $100 is a lil chunk of change but steering is sorta important LOL

plus this way i can rebuild the power parts if i want over time