The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by sloppymotor, Mar 14, 2013.
Clean the plugs or put new ones in. I'd put in a new set.
And soak the old ones in a can of carb cleaner...so you can use them later when the new ones foul!
I was working on an old Chevy six like yours. It was running like crap...just like yours. It would idle pretty good, but when I hit the throttle, she'd start popping. I replaced all the tune-up parts, including new spark plugs. Ran better, but not that great. Starting to get just a little frustrated. Then I realized the carb was running rich. Ok...took it off and had it rebuilt by a local guy. Put the rebuilt carb back on and started the engine in great anticipation. Still ran like crap! Now I'm really at a loss and getting more pissed. Just then my sweet wife came out to the garage for a quick visit. She asked if I was ok. I started bitching how I've done all this work, and it still was running terribly. She said, "Did you check the spark plugs?" I kind of waved her off and said, "Yeah!...I've replaced everything!...including new spark plugs!" She left me with some encouraging words and went inside the house. Now, you have to understand that I've about worn her out over the years explaining this and that about how an engine works, the history of hot rodding, tradition, etc. etc. etc. And she's actually soaked most of it up. There've been times when she put me back on the right track when I've strayed from what I'd said previously. She always says, "You've taught me well." So...with this in mind, I thought it couldn't hurt to check the plugs again!...lol. Pulled 'em, and whadda ya know...black shit. They had gotten fouled again in the short time that I had run the engine. Put in a new set, and zooooom!!! Smooth as silk. Then I went and kissed my wife's face all over and thanked her profusely. Lol.
Where'd ya go, Sloppy? I see you logged off. I hope you're just off to the auto parts store, and haven't given up...lol.
Well, I'll take this opportunity to do a couple things. I'll be back shortly.
OK..here we go.. Before I set the vales yesterday..The Dizz..Would rock back and forth by itself during Idle...Ticking back and forth retard/advance..moving with the engine Idle...after adjusting the..IT STopped..now when I loosened the Valves and nut back up..it started doing it again... and it seems to be fouling the plugs right away..starts great after cleaning them..at first it sounded great as I adjusted them..now..bad again..stalled out
Also the motor is rocking like crazy....
Because it is only firing on a couple of cylinders.
OK sloppy, It's time to outsmart this problem. Put your thinking cap on and get methodical, even if you have to go back to the beginning. Run each cylinder up to TDC, check each valve to see how much clearance, set each valve (not running) to somewhere near zero (unless it is a solid cam, which could be possible because you said it sounded like a sewing machine. If so there is a feeler gauge setting for intake and exhaust.), look at rotor position and follow wire to that cylinder. Do that for every cylinder. Recheck EVERYTHING. Make sure that the butterfly is open just a crack or it can't idle. That is controlled by screw in throttle arm.
Sooner or later you are going to have to time it, but I am pretty sure you are going to have to resolve the vacuum advance issue as one of the steps. If you can apply vacuum to the line coming out of the carb and the advance moves toward the cannister AND goes back when suction is removed, it is working. You will probably have to remove the cap to see the point plate move. Sounds like the whole dizzy is loose in the block and moving. Get the timing close and lock it down, til you can time it properly, then lock it down. The dizzy housing should not be moving.
You are getting lots of good info from these guys, but you are the one who is going to have to science it out. Be methodical.
im done with this thing...plugs are black again... third cleaning..Ive had it..
New plugs will just foul again..RIGHT...??
I feel im gonna need a new carb before I can go further..But this on has new gaskets in it..so I figured it had been rebuilt...The fuel tank ,filter and pump are New...
Hang in there, deep breath....you are learning at a much faster pace than all of us did early on and applying it instantly with each post. Be proud of the little steps, they will all come together shortly.
Sloppy, Read 338 again. I added to it and things are moving so fast, it's on a previous page.
just read #338
on this engine the whole dizzy SHOULD be moving. that is how they adavance on this engine
deep breath sloppy.. grab a beer, light a cig we'll get her runnin
Got ya..Starting over now..Tell me..So if the rotor is on the plug # then that cly is at TDC.. also are the points sapposed to be open or closed at TDC...??
Yes but its moving by itself..during idle..back and forth..but when I start adj..valves it stops..then runs worse..
Ive started over with TDC on one..Does the flywheel say the CLY # on it..Cause I sware it says TDC then a dimple then looks like the # 6..After I find TDC on # 1..How do I find # 2.the rotor points at the # 2 on the cap..???
Somebody answered that one a while back. I'd say at TDC just opened, because they should open just a few degrees (of rotation) before TDC. Correction-check each cylinder TDC first then check to make sure the pointer goes to that cylinder. Cylinder fires as points open.
Thanks for correction on this dizzy. Just make sure body of dizzy is clamped down when pointer is close to cap wire position.
Yes...apparently, the plugs keep fouling. You have a carb problem. The engine is running rich. You don't need a new carb...this one just needs a rebuild. Not a big deal.
Please answer Sloppy...did you replace the points and condensor with the new ones?
This thing with the distributor moving back and forth is a new wrinkle. We'll have to give that some thought. You said the condition changed as you adjusted the valves. I think as you adjust the valves, the vacuum signal is changing...getting erratic...but right now, that's more of a guess.
You are right though...you'd do well to deal with the carb first. We can't tune it unless it'll run.
Now I can rebuild your carb for you. But a better option might be to have me rebuild one that I have here and send it to you. I won't charge you an arm and a leg...maybe a hand, that's all...lol. Unless you can find a good rebuilder in your area. I forget who mentioned it (thankyou) but it could be as simple as the wrong float level setting. Even some "professional" carb rebuilder don't realize how important it is to get the float level dead-on...both the upper level and the low level. Or they don't pay enough attention. Or there's crap in the gas, and the inlet needle is stuck open, causing the rich condition. If it is dirt in the gas holding the inlet valve open, then very likely the carb doesn't really need a rebuild...just a good cleaning out.
I took it apart cleaned it out, and blew out the jet..all the gaskets are new..
But..Can ya tell me how to find TDC on cly # 2,3,4,5,6,,, there isn't a mark on the fly wheel for these.. when I was adj them earlier when it WAS RUNNING..It made a huge diff. But then I think the Plugs foulded before I could get it done..at one point sounded great.. then to shit again
We really don't care about TDC on 23456. And no, the only mark on the flywheel is for #1. If you get #1 on TDC and rotor pointing at the #1 wire on the cap, the rest will fall into place on their own.
Great..Ive been killing my self trying to figure that out..
I am not being Neg here but I am really surprise on how many posts this thread has received on just a simple problem in one day (24 hrs)
Plugs out, crank it in the direction of running rotation, feel the compression in that cylinder, use a straw or rubber tubing in the plug hole to feel when piston is at the top. Check the valve clearance and set for that cylinder. Make sure wire to that cylinder is in the cap where the pointer is facing. You might want to mark the dizzy where the wires are in the cap. Also make sure the cap is not cracked or broken inside.
I would say, at this point, it doesn't matter what the flywheel says. That is a timing mark for setting when you have a light connected to number one. What you are doing now is more basic than that. This is a way to make sure that wires are on properly and that valves for each cylinder are close enough for it to run.
When you get that done for all six cylinders front to back, check against the firing order posted earlier. Any luck and you will be right on and all the valves will be close. To get them right, you are going to have to figure out if it has hydraulics or solid lifters, as mentioned before.
Carb is so basic, if it ran before and butterfly is slightly open, and it has gas in the bowl, there is a good chance it will run well enough to start adjusting on it as posted before. Now you know why some of us old farts have scratched or pulled the hair out of our heads.
If float is sticking, tap on carb body near fuel inlet to free up sticking needle in the seat. Use something that will not dent carb body.
Yes. Finding tdc for each cylinder:
First of all, remove all the sparkplugs...it'll be easier to turn over. A number of things to watch as you're looking for tdc. Both valves are closed. As you know, when the piston is on the compression stroke, your little piece of paper will fly out. Or you can put your thumb over the hole to feel the compression...but it's damn near impossible to turn the engine over by hand while holding your thumb over the hole...lol. I'd suggest using a remote starter switch...but I doubt you have one. But on this engine, you don't really need one...cause the starter is right there...on the same side as the sparkplug holes. So you can actually jump the terminals on the starter with a screwdriver or something, to turn over the engine while you have a thumb or finger over a sparkplug hole. As soon as you know the piston is coming up...stop! Then put a long narrow screwdriver or a plastic straw or something in the sparkplug hole...something that will move with the piston and you can see as it's coming up. As soon as it stops, you're at tdc for that piston.
For timing, no. But I think Sloppy wanted to know so he could set the valve lash statically...for each cylinder...which means he needs to find tdc...for each cylinder.
You're making assumptions. You have to understand. Simple for you maybe...if you were right there. But Sloppy is brand new to this stuff, and we've been giving him kind of a crash course. We've had to go slow with him and often repeat stuff. There were multiple issues to deal with. And we all know that long distance diagnosis is tricky at best anyway. If you think it's really so simple, you're welcome to contribute. Maybe you can save us all some time. Fact is though...I think we've got it narrowed down.
Then you can get the valves close for that cylinder and be sure pointer matches wire for that cylinder. Methodical.
Keep up the good work Rickybop and others.
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