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57 inline 6 235..Popping,Sputtering

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by sloppymotor, Mar 14, 2013.

  1. Rickybop
    Joined: May 23, 2008
    Posts: 7,033

    Rickybop
    Member
    from Michigan

    Open. But you've now determined that the timing is at least very close to correct. So don't worry whether the points are open or closed.

    Good that you tightened the loose stuff. Could've affected the ability of the advance. And you determined that the distributor moves when you wing the throttle. Good.

    Now what? I have no fukn idea...lol. Just kiddin' again.

    Did you check the accelerator pump? Look down the carb while you move the throttle. See a good squirt/spray as soon as the throttle moves? Or is it weak?

    Do you have a timing light? If so, we can take the time to set your timing accurately. But I doubt that's necessary right now.

    You can replace the condensor and points and re-gap them just to cover our asses if you want.

    Then test run again. If you do a test drive however, first take a look at the "loose brake pedal" you mentioned to me in the PM...to make sure it's not gonna fall apart.

    After you've attended to these couple of things, I think maybe we should move on to the valves.
     
  2. rfraze
    Joined: May 23, 2012
    Posts: 2,003

    rfraze
    Member

    I did not see the answer if you checked the squirt of fuel from the injector pump. Look down in carb and operate throttle arm. We just went thru this even after rebuilding a carb. Should be a good stream for proper operation and easy starting. Good work so far.
     
  3. sloppymotor
    Joined: Feb 9, 2011
    Posts: 246

    sloppymotor
    Member
    from iowa

    I have it running ..sounds better..but..Im not sure till I drive it.. when I back out the idle mixture screw is that adding..more Fuel or Air..or vacuum..???
     
  4. Rickybop
    Joined: May 23, 2008
    Posts: 7,033

    Rickybop
    Member
    from Michigan

    Just find the sweet spot...highest rpm. Turn it in until the engine slows and begins to stumble then turn it back out. Do that a couple of times until you think you've got it where the engine is running best.
     
  5. sloppymotor
    Joined: Feb 9, 2011
    Posts: 246

    sloppymotor
    Member
    from iowa

    Yes..a good spray..in the carb..a wide hard mist spray...
     
  6. Rickybop
    Joined: May 23, 2008
    Posts: 7,033

    Rickybop
    Member
    from Michigan

    When you turn the mixture screw in and out, does it obviously change the way the engine is running, or no difference detected as you do adjust it?
     
  7. sloppymotor
    Joined: Feb 9, 2011
    Posts: 246

    sloppymotor
    Member
    from iowa

    10-4..on that.. seems the longer it runs and warms up the worse it sounds..sounds a little choppy now..
     
  8. try adjusting it
     
  9. sloppymotor
    Joined: Feb 9, 2011
    Posts: 246

    sloppymotor
    Member
    from iowa

    giving it some gas..getting a pop from my carb...
     
  10. Rickybop
    Joined: May 23, 2008
    Posts: 7,033

    Rickybop
    Member
    from Michigan

    Loading up maybe...running rich. Maybe fouling the plugs again. Hope you have some ventilation for the fumes to escape. Did you adjust the mixture screw as best you can?
     
  11. Another possible thought. It soUnds like it is ok on the idle but rUns like crap under load. Could there be a float issue in the carb?
     
  12. Rickybop
    Joined: May 23, 2008
    Posts: 7,033

    Rickybop
    Member
    from Michigan

    10-4 on the carb popping. I think the plugs are fouled.

    Please answer the previous questions, then I think we can move on to the valves.
     
  13. at this point i am starting to think vavle adjustment first.
    he said he messed with all of them and then the car ran poorly. he should at least get them close i guess now
     
  14. Rickybop
    Joined: May 23, 2008
    Posts: 7,033

    Rickybop
    Member
    from Michigan

    Always a possibility. I think if we adjust the valves, it might make a big difference. Trying to do the easiest and most common things first.
     
  15. rfraze
    Joined: May 23, 2012
    Posts: 2,003

    rfraze
    Member

    In reduces fuel. Out increases fuel. Sounded like there was some question about which screw at some point. Did you get your answer on that one? Shouldn't it be the one w/knurled and slotted end with small spring where it meets carb base?
     
  16. sloppymotor
    Joined: Feb 9, 2011
    Posts: 246

    sloppymotor
    Member
    from iowa

    Yes..I think so..
     
  17. Rickybop
    Joined: May 23, 2008
    Posts: 7,033

    Rickybop
    Member
    from Michigan

    Glad you're still here, B13. Do you know the correct method for adjusting the valves? If not, I'm gonna just have him do it as the engine is running, just barely get the tick out...maybe sllightly on the loose side...and that will get 'em real close. If the problem is the valves, that'll make all the difference.
     
  18. sloppymotor
    Joined: Feb 9, 2011
    Posts: 246

    sloppymotor
    Member
    from iowa

    yes...
     
  19. Snarl is my go to guy for 261's
     
  20. Rickybop
    Joined: May 23, 2008
    Posts: 7,033

    Rickybop
    Member
    from Michigan

    Ya wanna do the valves, Sloppy?
     
  21. Rickybop
    Joined: May 23, 2008
    Posts: 7,033

    Rickybop
    Member
    from Michigan

    Ready to adjust valves?
     
  22. sloppymotor
    Joined: Feb 9, 2011
    Posts: 246

    sloppymotor
    Member
    from iowa

    yes..give me 5 min..I think im having a Dizz timing advance/Carb Mix Issue..
     
  23. wibble_1979
    Joined: Sep 25, 2012
    Posts: 109

    wibble_1979
    Member

    yes and yes. I understand but felt if we throw much more at the guy he might slam the hood and walk away. So instead of telling him his vacuum advance retard's the timing I left it as it as was to avoid frustration. I was only trying to assist in a step that seemed to have been missed not cause conflict and frustration. similar situation arise when you try to explain that a high gear ratio is numerically lower and a low gear is numerically higher. I am sure he wants to understand but would just like to get his car running and driving to begin with.
     
  24. dont remember the exact procedure
    lets do it that way so we dont get him in over his head lol
    just think we should get them close as he may have loosened them up and have the vavles not opening all the way right now
     
  25. sloppymotor
    Joined: Feb 9, 2011
    Posts: 246

    sloppymotor
    Member
    from iowa

    it idles the best when I have the screw all the way in..but backfires and still sputtering...not even a good idle now..seems to just be getting worse..by the min..every adjustment so far in the last 24 hours has made it worse..to the point where it wont even run and idle normaly now..has to be the valves..HAS to BE..
     
  26. Rickybop
    Joined: May 23, 2008
    Posts: 7,033

    Rickybop
    Member
    from Michigan

    Now one thing I haven't mentioned. There's always the possibility that your camshaft has flattened lobes. Not real common on an old 235, but it's possible. And if that's the case, that would surely make the engine run crappy and cause it to sneeze out the carb. Also, it'll make it impossible to adjust the valves...futile. Before you even start, take a look to see how much of the adjuster stem is sticking out above the lock nuts. They sould stick up maybe...what...trying to remember...maybe 3/8"? I seem to remember that you should have a few threads showing above the nut. And are they all pretty close the same? Because if any of them is way off from the other, (too many threads showing) that can indicate flattened cam lobes. One more thing before you start to adjust. With the engine running, do all the rockers seem to move about the same amount? Or is one or more of them barely moving? Or moving much less than the other?

    Let me know what you see.

    When you're ready.

    Get your open end or box wrench that fits the lock nuts, and a wide/fat blade standard screwdriver and whatever scewdriver that'll fit the idle speed screw. Pull the valve covers off of course. Start the engine. Adjust the idle speed down as far as you can that still allows the engine to stay running. Keep a rag at hand too. Maybe put a bigger rag over your fender for oil spray. Now shut off the engine. Now crack all the lock nuts loose, and re-tighten them just a little. The idea is to have them tight enough to stay put, but not so tight that it's hard to loosen them as you're working. This will make the job go easier and faster. Now we're ready to go. Start the engine again. And go to town. Get your on the first nut and immediately get the screwdriver in the slot of the adjuster. It seems hard at first...everything going up and down...but just keep downward pressure on the screwdriver to keep it engaged, turn that adjuster out until you know it's clacking. Then turn it in 'til you think you've gotten the ticking out...not too far...just to get the tick out. Then lightly tighten the lock nut. Move down the line until you've done them all. Now things should be quite a bit quieter...not a lot of ticking. And hopefully, the engine has begun to run a bit better. But you're not quite done yet. I don't want you to leave the valves too tight...I'd rather see you leave them just a hair loose. Now it'll be easier to hear the individual rockers ticking or not...without all the clatter of all of them clacking away. Do the whole deal again, but this time on each one, bring back just the lightest ticking sound. Then you can cinch down all the lock nuts, put the valve cover back on and rev it a bit...see how she runs.
     
  27. sloppymotor
    Joined: Feb 9, 2011
    Posts: 246

    sloppymotor
    Member
    from iowa

    yes..all about the same threads..bout 2 threads..all seem to move about the same as well...
     
  28. Rickybop
    Joined: May 23, 2008
    Posts: 7,033

    Rickybop
    Member
    from Michigan

    Could be, but if it's the valves, it probably wouldn't get worse as it runs. I think the plugs are fouling. Pull a couple plugs. Do they look black again? If so, pull them all and clean them again as well as you can and put 'em back in. Start the engine. Improved? I don't like that you're saying the engine runs best with the mixture screw all the way in. That tells me it really is running rich. And that will foul the plugs, and make run worse the longer it runs. You've got a carb problem, I think. But if you clean the sparkplugs and get 'er running better again for the time being, we can adjust the valves before the damn plugs start fouling again. If you're sick of cleaning plugs, just put new ones in. Then let me know if it makes a big difference. Don't get too frustrated...we'll track this gremlin down yet. Then all will be good

    It's gonna be difficult to adjust the valves if the engine won't idle too good.
     
  29. Rickybop
    Joined: May 23, 2008
    Posts: 7,033

    Rickybop
    Member
    from Michigan

    Good deal.
     
  30. sloppymotor
    Joined: Feb 9, 2011
    Posts: 246

    sloppymotor
    Member
    from iowa

    yup..fouled plugs again..
     

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