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Technical 57 ford power steering.

Discussion in 'Traditional Customs' started by rocketsled59, Mar 17, 2016.

  1. rocketsled59
    Joined: Mar 14, 2010
    Posts: 754

    rocketsled59
    Member

    Is there any difference in front steering components for manual and power steering? Every part of the power steering set up is shot to hell on my ranchero and leaks out as fast as you pour it in. Just wonder since its (assisted) if it would just drive like manual steering with all the ps shit removed. AnYbody know about this from past experience? Thanks RS59
     
  2. carguy699
    Joined: Jan 16, 2013
    Posts: 87

    carguy699
    Member

    no it will steer like crap as the steering effort will be unreal. I tried it with my 58 and it was almost undrivable,don,t know why!!
    jim
     
  3. miker98038
    Joined: Jan 24, 2011
    Posts: 607

    miker98038
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Don't know for sure about the 57, but most ram assist p/s units need the pressure at the ram/pitman connection to maintain positive contact. Whenever I've removed the pump for rebuild, it all gets really loose, as well as heavy. You'll need either a rebuild, or the manual steering parts.
     
  4. rocketsled59
    Joined: Mar 14, 2010
    Posts: 754

    rocketsled59
    Member

    Hmm. Not what I was hoping for. Thanks guys. Btw. Cylinder Looks alot like later mustang Fairlane Wonder if it will interchange.
     

  5. town sedan
    Joined: Aug 18, 2011
    Posts: 1,290

    town sedan
    Member

    The center link will be different between manual and power. As well as some other pieces. Best thing would be to find a manual steering car to pull the parts from and then rebuild and install. I drove a '64 Galaxie for awhile with the pump disconnected. Very heavy low speed steering but doable. -Dave
     
  6. There is an aftermarket power steering box for the '57 - '64 Fords, uses an external pump, not the slave thing.
     
  7. rocketsled59
    Joined: Mar 14, 2010
    Posts: 754

    rocketsled59
    Member

  8. abe lugo
    Joined: Nov 8, 2002
    Posts: 2,478

    abe lugo
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

  9. 57Custom300
    Joined: Aug 21, 2009
    Posts: 1,362

    57Custom300
    Member
    from Arizona

    I wanted to convert my 57 to ps but the cost to pick up all the components and have the ram and control valve refurbished was more than I was willing to pay. I ended up installing a manual steering box out of a 59. Way better box than the 57 and though it's not ps it steers with a whole lot less effort than with the 57. Almost a bolt in, you'll need a 59 Pitman arm and a separate button to make the horn work. Wire runs through the steering shaft on a 57 and the steering shaft on the 59 is solid. The only "cheaper" ps solutions are the Borgesen or the rack and pinion set ups.
     
  10. Exactly, thinking about it for my '59.
     
  11. 59fordyfairgalax500
    Joined: Dec 2, 2007
    Posts: 42

    59fordyfairgalax500
    Member
    from York, PA

    Significant difference. Mainly how the pitman arm interfaces with the control valve. See Part 3311 in exploded view, essentially puts minimal pressure on the control valve which in turn activates the power cylinder in both directions.

    Send your power steering system to Jerry's Classics. I pulled the parts myself and had them rebuild the Pump, Control Valve, and Power cylinder for a little over $600. It was a 4-6 week turn around because I wasn't in a rush. It was well worth the money. Steering and brakes are not to go cheap on! I also did a full front end bushing/tie rod/Ball Joint rebuild while it was a part and it drives like new.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Dapostman
    Joined: Apr 24, 2011
    Posts: 294

    Dapostman
    Member

    Manual steering components are designed to apply more leverage and make the effort to turn lower manual steering boxes usually use more turns of the steering wheel lock to lock to increase leverage. A PS box might be 3 ½ turns lock to lock while a manual box will be 4 ½ turns making the steering slower but using less effort. The pitman arm can also be shorter on a manual steer. On the older Mustangs there is even a difference in the steering boxes on the sixes and V8s.
     
  13. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 9,461

    jimmy six
    Member

    I had my control valve rebuilt 2 times by shops that knew them and they started leaking. Found a guy in central California that sold what are called "quad" seals. Took it apart myself on my bench using the Ford shop manual assembled it and it has never leaked a drop since. Found the guy on e-bay. Now about that trans leak.....
     
  14. 57JoeFoMoPar
    Joined: Sep 14, 2004
    Posts: 5,018

    57JoeFoMoPar
    Member

    Wow, that kit is a pile of money.

    I'm going through a similar conundrum right now as I'm preparing to build a '59 Edsel for the significant other. I'll go on record as saying that I don't think these 57-59 Ford suspension designs are very good. Even when they're in good shape, they don't handle or steer as well as their GM counter part, IMHO. Ultimately, the front of the car poses a series of issues: Steering, brakes, suspension. What is the most cost effective means of addressing all of these systems, both in terms of time and monetary expense?

    I considered the Borgeson box conversion, which looks like a great option. They're not cheap, and from what I can tell, will require notching the frame on the top of the rail. Obviously you'll need to convert your steering column to work with a universal joint. But that only addresses the steering issue. I'd want to convert over to disc brakes as well, which is an additional expense of about $500. Then add the price of new springs, possibly dropped spindles, and new bushings and ball joints, and you're into the front end pretty deep, even though your car will be in great shape.

    The route I think I'm going to take is to put a MII front frame stub underneath it. In one fell swoop I upgrade my brakes and steering, and also open up more space in the engine bay (these chassis are very narrow for wide engines, and eliminating the steering box sitting next to the engine in lieu of a rack that sits below is a major space savings for starter and exhaust clearance). Furthermore, I get a big sway bar and it's all already setup on airbags. Yes, it's expensive, and in talking to Alex Gambino, I may need to get a smaller bolt pattern to accommodate a 15" steel wheel (which means a new set of rear axles so they all match, not a huge deal for a 9"), but it's only a few hundred bucks more expensive that replacing everything in pieces, and is probably half of the work, and a better ultimate result. I'll be sure to post a build thread once I really get cracking on this thing, hopefully in the next couple weeks.
     
  15. You might take a look at a Jaguar IFS out of a series 1/2/3 sedan or a '75-96 XJS. Disc brakes, rack steering, comes on a subframe. Designed for a heavy car (unlike the 'upgraded' Pinto-based M2), great ride/handling, donor cars shouldn't be too hard to find, and rebuild parts aren't any more expensive than any other front end AND readily available from multiple sources. ElPolacko and Zman did Jag swaps on '57 Olds and Buick, were happy with the results...

    Check out the Jag IS forum in the social forums...
     
  16. I got a fair amount in the front end of my '59 right now. Every front end part replaced, disc conversion. I had Aerostars in it, had an issue with the tire scraping the fender well lip. Cut down the OG Ford springs, problem solved. I think the Borgeson PS box would top it off nicely. I'm running 15" radials.
     
  17. abe lugo
    Joined: Nov 8, 2002
    Posts: 2,478

    abe lugo
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Here is another angle to the 1500.00 steering kit.
    http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/cheap-rack-in-pinion-conversion.785303/

    I would still recommend a scarebird disc bracket. http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/cheap-rack-in-pinion-conversion.785303/

    Weld it in the cups if you must have air ride. rebuild the A-arms/balljoint with a kanter kit and you are set.

    However, airride and good suspension is kind of an oxymornon. That's just my opinion, I like to feel the road. You can just get new springs and good shocks.

    The main thing with messing with a late 50's Ford front suspension is end up with a wider front track.
    If you do the granada kits. beware with the hubs. you have to have the matching wheels or machine the lip on the hub to allow for more different steel wheels to fit.

    If you do the fatman stub or a mustang II, just make sure you don't leave the wheels farther out that the originally were.

    I think there is something to be said about the look of these cars with the wheel in the correct track width.
    I always wanted to go back to stock spindle on my 57 as it never looked right after the spindle swap.
     
  18. JeffB2
    Joined: Dec 18, 2006
    Posts: 8,895

    JeffB2
    Member
    from Phoenix,AZ

  19. 57JoeFoMoPar
    Joined: Sep 14, 2004
    Posts: 5,018

    57JoeFoMoPar
    Member

    Totally agree. In fact, that's my biggest knock against subframes in the first place. It's immediately identifiable when a car has a bad subframe because the wheels are sticking out way too far. Thankfully, with the expansive aftermarket with MII now, they're available in various different track widths so that issue is remedied. I forget off the top of my head whether it's 58" or 60", but either way it's available.
     

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