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Customs 57 Chevy Budget 4 door build

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by RaginPin3Appl3, Aug 5, 2017.

  1. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 5,712

    Budget36
    Member

    I'm just going to offer some advice...okay:)

    You don't need a flaring tool, and since you've never used one, and you don't have anyone to show you (yes...youtube is nice, but sometimes it's better to have an experienced person show you things) you can just measure up what you need and piece the tubing together.

    So, say you need an 84 inch run, the AP store have 72 and 24...too long, but maybe they have 61 and 24, you can easily put a little flex in the tubing when you put it together and "shrink it" that 1 inch...heck, maybe it's two runs of 43 inches...

    Think is, I've probably made hundreds of double flares and I'll get a leaker/bad flare every so often, I'm thinking you might have better luck and reduce the chances of leaks, by screwing the fittings together, than making double flares.

    I didn't watch the posted video, but did it show how far to let the tubing stickout...i/e 3/16th line, stick's out 3/16th...etc. Did the guy use some brake fluid on the end of the anvil, did he tell you when to "feel" when the flares are done? It's just little things that if are skipped/not know, create issues.

    Regardless. Get that sucker fired up...the grin will last you a month;)
     
  2. RaginPin3Appl3
    Joined: Mar 31, 2016
    Posts: 1,172

    RaginPin3Appl3
    Member

    I was under the impression that when i went to get brake line, it would be a big roll of line, then i'd have to add fittings to the end, therefore i'd need a flare tool. So i can just get a bunch of lengths that already have fittings? if so that's great!
     
  3. You also can use brass couplings with ferrules to attach two lines together.
     
    RaginPin3Appl3 likes this.
  4. RaginPin3Appl3
    Joined: Mar 31, 2016
    Posts: 1,172

    RaginPin3Appl3
    Member

    this seems like it's going to be a much simpler job than i had thought. Just some measuring and screwing together tubing, little bit of bending and that's it.
     
  5. So there you go.:) Do what Budget 36 says and eliminate several worries for an unexperienced flaring individual (you).;) Then you just need the line wrenches to tighten them.
     
    RaginPin3Appl3 likes this.
  6. This NO!
    [​IMG]
    This yes.
    [​IMG]
     
  7. philo426
    Joined: Sep 20, 2007
    Posts: 2,035

    philo426
    Member

    Yes the threaded parts are much more secure.
     
  8. It's not about the threads (they both have them) as much as it is how the tube becomes secured via the flare. The tubing can not slip out under severe pressure. A compression union is not designed for extreme pressure like that of a brake system.
     
  9. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 5,712

    Budget36
    Member

    Like Johnny Gee says, do not use compression fittings.
    @RAGINPIN3APPL3 yes, you can get brake line precut and preflared, chances of getting a piece exactly that you need in length...well, not so much luck there.

    So say your two pieces are longer than needed, put your "service bend" inside the frame, heck, you can make the tubing look like a snake if need be...I mean how many people are going to crawl under your car and look at it?

    Now in the future when you get to a point where you're not just after a driver and you're doing a frame off, then get more exact.

    And as someone mentioned, get a set/few flaring wrenches, they resemble a box wrench with a slot cut in them to slide over the tubing and grab most of the fitting and help eliminate rounded fittings.
     
    RaginPin3Appl3 likes this.
  10. 6-bangertim
    Joined: Oct 3, 2011
    Posts: 400

    6-bangertim
    Member
    from California

    `NOT SO FAST Pineapple! This project requires just as much PLANNING as any other phase of the car. I'll be back in a minute with another post that will save you BOTH time and money.
     
  11. 6-bangertim
    Joined: Oct 3, 2011
    Posts: 400

    6-bangertim
    Member
    from California

    I want to pass along a few tips - things I LEARNED on my '57 10 years ago, during a disc brake upgrade and rebuilding the rear brakes, should SAVE you some time and a couple bucks:

    Use a couple VICE GRIPS to break-loose line fittings and bleeders - they won't round off the hex-heads for later use.

    INSPECT what you have. What is on the car just might be BETTER than you think! Inspect the bores and pistons of all wheel cylinders for pitting, corrosion. I'd rather rebuild OLD cylinders than buy NEW rice parts from China - unless you are blessed to find old (gringo-made in U.S.A.) stock on ebay. IF you need to order parts, it's hard to beat the prices at rockauto.com, and their shipping is excellent - within a week!

    Brake lines - Again, INSPECT what you have - pull them off the car if need be for a good look.
    NEW LINES - Shop the local stores with a pen and pad, record their lengths AND brand. Lengths DO very between brands you will notice, thus minimizing the need to make double flairs.

    Stingle-strand Wire - A cut-off length 6-10' long from a home center ( used for home wiring ) works well as a template for laying out new lines on the car. Strip back 1/2" of insulation to plug into a old line, to aid in routing. A 1/4" wide tape measure helps MUCHO for measuring lenghts, and is damn-handy to keep in your pocket - I've carried one for years!

    Bending NEW Lines - An 'old-school' trick is to use fine sand inside the lines before bending, to minimize kinking, then bend by hand. I was BLESSED to borrow a WHEATHERHEAD brand tubing bender for my tight-radius bends. I would check-out EASTWOOD for their line of tubing benders. I needed to make a large radius bend across the crossmember of my '57 - the forward-half of the rear fender of my '53 Chevy truck worked PERFECT - so, THINK outside the box for stuff to make large, gradual bends off of!

    DOUBLE-FLAIRS - can be a breeze or a PITA. Use the BEST tooling you have access to. Check with local greaybeards working in shops - they might have the proper tooling to make them while you wait - for lunch or beer money! The tooling I borrowed from a neighbor was a test in patience - pretty-much worn out. Had to use valve lapping coumpound in the clamp and on the tubing to hold it in position, keep it from moving. Took me several tries to perfect my method, but I did acheve flairs that matched the LOOK of factory flairs. I used a mini tubing cutter ( NOT A HACKSAW ) and filed each end SQUARE, then deburred the tube inside AND outside - MOST CRITICLE for a good flair. IF you find someone with a hydrolic flairing tool, they will be your next hero - as those tools are MAGIC for speed and quality!

    Bleeding the system - Bleed the master cylinder FIRST - on a bench vice, or on the car with a helper, then connect the brake lines. There are several options for bleeding at the wheels, all work well. Gravity - attach short PVC lines to the bleeders cracked open, walk away for several hours, or over night. Check-up on the lines for fluid AND the master cylinder - keep it FULL. Then, close ALL the bleeders, bleed one at a time - start from the wheel farest away from the master. Use a helper to pump the brake pedal SMOOTHLY, as you watch for bubbles escaping theough the hose. OR, borrow a MIGHTY-VAC hand vacuum pump to draw air from the lines and wheel cylinder, until NO AIR BUBBLES are evident - works bitchin for SOLO use, as I usually work alone and hate to bother my neighbors for a hand. Gravity bleeding DOES save some time and brake fluid!

    Brake Adjustment - With the brake adjuster tool in your hand - think UP TIGHT, to adjust each brake while spinning the wheel by hand. STOP when you no longer can move the wheel, then back off 13 CLICKS. You should feel and hear a slight drag - if any. Worked for my dad, works for me too!

    CONSIDER the above, from my EXPERIENCE. It took me a little while to post all of this - as I'm a BETTER mechanic/builder than a typist... Good Luck, Tim
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2018
    mikhett and RaginPin3Appl3 like this.
  12. I guarantee you the brass couplers with furrels will hold as much pressure as the rubber lines from the suspension to the front wheel cyls. The old bob trucks used those type fittings and they had booster brakes.
     
    RaginPin3Appl3 likes this.
  13. chopped
    Joined: Dec 9, 2004
    Posts: 2,013

    chopped
    Member

    If you use pre made remember there are two different threads and two flares. At least.
     
    RaginPin3Appl3 likes this.
  14. No doubt but. Maybe this metaphor will shed some light? Should we lead with the wrong foot? Where do you suppose a newbie would buy a compression union? Odd's are the hardware store. Are those DOT approved?
     
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  15. 59Apachegail
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,379

    59Apachegail
    Member
    from New York

    I would spend the cash on pre fabricated brake lines if it were me. Why trust your life to an amateur when you have a professional who will bend and flare your lines for you? I will bend and flare my own fuel lines and I prefer this tool it is a papco 400. I have a lot more success with ends using this little jewel. I find I have more leverage with this than the other style tools. [​IMG]
     
  16. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 6,643

    56sedandelivery
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    All brake and fuel lines are available from the Tri-Five vendors, even for cars setup with a dual master cylinder or aftermarket power brakes, plus all the disc brake conversion pieces. Spent the money ONCE on proven, quality made lines. JMO. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
     
    David Gersic likes this.
  17. RaginPin3Appl3
    Joined: Mar 31, 2016
    Posts: 1,172

    RaginPin3Appl3
    Member

    So it’s worth getting pre bent lines? Was hoping to just bend my own, but safety is definitely worth the extra hundred bucks IMO.


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  18. Look at it this way. Everyone that's done something new to them had to start at Zero. And most often it's negative zero (knowing nothing at all and just runs thru the motions because they've seen it done). Take all the positive advise and even the negative and let that be your guide while doing the new and you'll be fine.
     
  19. RMONTY
    Joined: Jan 7, 2016
    Posts: 2,165

    RMONTY
    Member

    We all advise the younger guys differently and we all have valid points. All a guy like Pineapple can do is decide his path and then proceed down it. Some guys take the path to get things done quickly with no regards to cost, some take the path to develop new skills and collect tools along the way, and some just half ass shit and end up with cobbled up junk that is dangerous and worthless. Carry on Pineapple, you are capable of deciding your own path! BTW....is that engine running yet? We need a video so we can see and hear it! :)
     
    slv63 likes this.
  20. 59Apachegail
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,379

    59Apachegail
    Member
    from New York

    If you bend your own make sure you have a decent bender. But for around $180 you can have it done for you. If you really want to learn you can always learn on something that does not have potential to kill you
     
  21. RaginPin3Appl3
    Joined: Mar 31, 2016
    Posts: 1,172

    RaginPin3Appl3
    Member

    Well said, I think since I have safety in mind i'll go with prebent, I'll work on my bending and flaring tools when I get time over the summer when I rebuild the 235 and add a multi carb setup.

    Oh and the motor will be running as soon as I put the gas tank and new line in which will hopefully be done this weekend. I hope by the time i leave to come back to school on sunday I have a running car, back in its rightful garage.
     
  22. AldeanFan
    Joined: Dec 12, 2014
    Posts: 723

    AldeanFan

    By the time you buy lines and fittings and a flaring tool and bender you’ll probably be close to the cost of pre-bent lines.
    However, buying tools and learning a new skill is an investment in yourself that will pay you back for the rest of your life.

    I’m glad to hear you’re concerned about safety, but as long as the lines don’t leak and all fittings are tight you’ve got safe lines.

    I learned to do brakelines on my first car when I was 16. Now I’m 36 and I’ve probably done lines on 25 or more cars and I expect to do a lot more in the next 50+ years I plan to work on cars, glad I learned when I did.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  23. RaginPin3Appl3
    Joined: Mar 31, 2016
    Posts: 1,172

    RaginPin3Appl3
    Member

    Weirdest thing happened when i went out to the garage just now, my three on the tree that constantly was jamming a couple weeks ago now shifts almost as good as it did before i dropped the motor in, i think the mounts had to settle but i won’t be swapping in the floor shifter yet. Tomorrow i’ll hopefully get my gas line in


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    1964countrysedan likes this.
  24. southcross2631
    Joined: Jan 20, 2013
    Posts: 4,287

    southcross2631
    Member

    I can't believe you are getting this many posts when you wouldn't even send me 15 dollars for shipping to give you 180 dollars worth of free parts for your project.
     
  25. lawman
    Joined: Sep 19, 2006
    Posts: 2,665

    lawman
    Member

    Make your own! It's not that hard!
     
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  26. flynbrian48
    Joined: Mar 10, 2008
    Posts: 7,066

    flynbrian48
    Member

    My least favorite job on re-habilitating a "fixer-upper" like yours is brake and fuel lines. At age 63, laying on a creeper under a rusty old car, getting rust flakes and bits of undercoating in my eyes and ears, hot sparks from the torch rolling down my ear canal, and in my shirt has lost it's charm. The advice to use vice grips to remove bleeders is terrible, they'll round them off straight-away, or crush them. 9 times out of 10 the wheel cylinders will be seized anyway, so pull the drums, get new cylinders (they're less than $10), a set of shoes and hardware if the springs look sketchy. Auto parts store straight tubing is cheap, and while you'll have to use some unions to get the lengths "close", it's easier for me than flaring tubing. I know, some guys have mastered this black art, but if I manage to get a perfect flare, I've forgotten the fitting. The rigid stuff is challenging, a bender works but you'll invariably find places that they won't make a tight enough bend without kinking the tubing, so try the more expensive coppery stuff, it bends beautifully by hand and is rated for brake lines. Plus, it doesn't rust. Interesting note, when I replaced all the brake lines on my '59 T'bird, I bled them without incident, everything was great. Days later went out to the shop, got into the car, started it up, and put it in gear at the same time I put my foot on the pedal. The pedal went to the floor, the car jumped ahead into the winch post on my boat trailer which was ahead of the car. I had to repair the bumper, hood, and filler panel. One of the new brake lines had a pinhole, all the fluid leaked out of the entire system, and the car had no brakes, with all new lines, rubber flex hoses, cylinders, shoes etc. Nothings perfect...
     
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  27. flynbrian48
    Joined: Mar 10, 2008
    Posts: 7,066

    flynbrian48
    Member

    Hahahahahahahahahaha! I question why I keep following this thread, I guess because I was as young and did some incredibly dumb stuff once too. Well, I still do dumb stuff, but I've managed to survive all these years in spite of myself. :confused:
     
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  28. Yes new wheel cylinders are the way to go. And while your at it used new brake springs and attaching hardware. All of the brake parts are 60 years old. replace everything with new parts.
     
    David Gersic and flatford39 like this.
  29. chubbie
    Joined: Jan 14, 2009
    Posts: 2,311

    chubbie
    Member

    Bleeding brakes is a pain in the ass! If you listen to the popular way to do it.. You live in Illinois go to a Vet and buy a large animal syringe like the ones they infuse sheep with. now parts store for a foot of 1/4" hose Taper the syringe till the hose fits good. Put your system together, DON'T BENCH BLEAD THE MASTER!! DON'T PUT ANY brake fluid in the master. make sure to leave the cover off the master. fill the syringe with DOT 3 fluid open the bleeder closest to the T put the hose on the open bleeder on the wheel cyl. put in enough fluid to get past the T. ( about an inch in the syringe) close the bleeder valve. go to the other side with a full syringe open the bleeder and pressure the line till the open master cylinder has maybe enough fluid to cover the bottom. (have your girl friend watch till you have the bottom covered by maybe 3/4") Repeat the other side. fill the master cylinder with brake fluid and you are done.
    DON'T buy or barrow a mighty vac or one of the "jar" things the Vet's syringe is less than $10 and works FAR better
     
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