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56 Ford engine swap

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 1jim, Apr 18, 2012.

  1. 1jim
    Joined: Apr 18, 2012
    Posts: 4

    1jim
    Member

    I have a 56 ford Fairlane had a 312 with auto trans I am going to install a351m400 with auto out of a 78 LTD what problems will I have with motor mounts, exhaust, driveshaft ect. any help will be greatly appreciated....THANKS..jim :confused:
     
  2. damagedduck
    Joined: Jun 16, 2011
    Posts: 2,342

    damagedduck
    Member
    from Greeley Co

    no help from me other than to tell you 351M's are torque monsters,so keep an eye on your rear end,they were not a good race motor in my opinion,have had a couple in great cruisers-chuck
     
  3. JackdaRabbit
    Joined: Jul 15, 2008
    Posts: 498

    JackdaRabbit
    Member
    from WNC

    Y not keep the Y block?
     
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  4. Don's Hot Rods
    Joined: Oct 7, 2005
    Posts: 8,319

    Don's Hot Rods
    Member
    from florida

    The best thing to do to start is to set the old engine and transmission and the new engine and transmission side by side and stare at them for a while. Take lots of measurements, note where the two are diffferent, look at the oil pan (those are generally the biggest offenders due to sump location) and try to determine what it will take to put the new motor in it's new home.

    Although someone has probably done this exact swap before, usually you are on your own and will have to tough it out by yourself. Remove the exhaust manifolds and drop the motor into the engine bay and see what fits and what doesn't fit. You may find commercially available engine swap mounts, but I doubt it. That will depend on what the M uses for mounts compared to a Windsor motor. (I have a feeling there is a better chance of finding info and parts to put either a 302 or 351 W into a 56)

    If you have to make mounts there is no magic there, simply make cardboard templates of what it will take to bridge the gap between the frame and the stock motor mounts (I always like to use readily available stock mounts where possible to make replacement time go easier). Same goes for the transmission mount. Sometimes you get lucky and only have to alter the stock crossmember and sometimes you need to make up an entirely new one.

    Once it is sitting on all 3 mounts you can start sorting out all the other issues like exhaust manifold clearance, accessory hook ups, wiring, etc.

    Don
     

  5. 1jim
    Joined: Apr 18, 2012
    Posts: 4

    1jim
    Member

    Thanks I don,t have old engine anyway thats about what i thought I,d have to do.just hoping someone had done same thing , hoping for short cuts..
     
  6. Duration
    Joined: Oct 2, 2006
    Posts: 543

    Duration
    Member
    from Wayne, MI

    no mystery to this one, plenty of room in the car for it. mounts the same as a 429 or 460 and uses the same trans and those fit in a 56 ford ok. I doubt you will find a direct bolt-in mount at a parts store but do an online search for 460 swap mounts and use those if available. If not, mock the motor in place, take measurements and make something that will work.
     
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  7. Heo2
    Joined: Aug 9, 2011
    Posts: 661

    Heo2
    Member

    Monsters compared to what? i dont think 326 lbs is
    so monstruos compared to a 292s 289lbs or 324lbs
    for a 312
     
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  8. Heo2
    Joined: Aug 9, 2011
    Posts: 661

    Heo2
    Member

    maby crites have motor mounts and headers
     
  9. Don's Hot Rods
    Joined: Oct 7, 2005
    Posts: 8,319

    Don's Hot Rods
    Member
    from florida

    I think what he is saying is that the 351 M makes it's torque down low to move a heavier car better. We had one in a T Bird and it ran out of rpms pretty fast but around town it moved the car pretty well. Not torque monsters like a 460 Ford, but designed to be respectable runners.

    Don
     
  10. Heo2
    Joined: Aug 9, 2011
    Posts: 661

    Heo2
    Member

    A 351 m has only 262 lbs thats lower than a
    292 yes it is on a few 100 rpm lower but
    thats not treatening the rear end
    I had my shares of 400s and yes it move a heavy car
    on low rpm and its flaten out on higher rpm
    thats not make it a monster that snap rearends
    same with all the "torquemonster"sixes myth
    take for instance the chevy 292 on 262 lbs..yeeeeaaayy
    what a monster...sorry for the rant just sick of the torquemonster
    bs
     
    MO54Frank likes this.
  11. i think the 351 and 302s use the same type mounts. if so you can use motor mouns for a 75 ford truck. you will need a 1in spacer between the motor and mount so your pan will clear. the trans mount should work you will just need a spacer. i think anyway. you might be able to use spindles and breaks as well off the ltd. i hade a 55. i picked up a 75 granada and was able to use the 302 and c4 the rear end and spindles. the were almost all bolt ins.
     
  12. damagedduck
    Joined: Jun 16, 2011
    Posts: 2,342

    damagedduck
    Member
    from Greeley Co


    Thanks Don,
    i have had no experience 56 ford Fairlane rear end thats why i threw the caution out there,{didn't how strong they are} --chuck
     
  13. Stevie Nash
    Joined: Oct 24, 2007
    Posts: 2,999

    Stevie Nash
    Member

    ditto.... :cool:
     
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  14. mtkawboy
    Joined: Feb 12, 2007
    Posts: 1,213

    mtkawboy
    Member

    Having built one years ago converting my 77 F250 4X4 351M to a 400 I can tell you that theres better ways to get power for your dollar, like an FE 390 motor. The M motors have valve guide wear problems and some crack in the lifter valley. I think Ford saved money on the castings leaving out the nickle. If your determined to do this I just built one for a friend using this site as a guide. http://www.projectbronco.com/Technical_Articles/351m400_performance_build_up.htm Dont get too radical & it makes a nice street motor. They have crappy combustion chamber too and are prone to pinging so dont get too wild on the compression. Do NOT go over .030 over, kepp the overbore as small as you can, the cylinder walls are thin. Block plate it too for honing
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2012
  15. JeffB2
    Joined: Dec 18, 2006
    Posts: 8,819

    JeffB2
    Member
    from Phoenix,AZ

    One of the largest Social Groups on the H.A.M.B. is here http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/group.php?groupid=332 for 1952-59 Ford cars many of us have done swaps so plenty of info there so join us.There are several things that are a must when swapping into '54-59's,you have to have a front sump oil pan for this swap,clearance at the steering box can be a problem with the exhaust on some engines.The most common swap is the 302/5.0 and 351W this swap can be done with common over the counter stock parts for mounts and availability of front sump pans is not an issue,the FE Fords (352-390-428) can also be done EZ even though this is a wide engine the exhaust sits higher and clears well.Some members have done the 429-460 swap and info is available at the group.If you already have the 351M the best advice is this,get out the cherry picker and put the engine and trans in as a unit trans mount first, then lower the engine and see if you can adapt motor mounts,if the 351M does not have a front sump oil pan don't bother.
     
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  16. JeffB2
    Joined: Dec 18, 2006
    Posts: 8,819

    JeffB2
    Member
    from Phoenix,AZ

    If you use late model Mustang mounts ANCHOR 2725 & 2726 you do not need spacers.
     
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  17. Heo2
    Joined: Aug 9, 2011
    Posts: 661

    Heo2
    Member

    I have a 400 from a 70 ltd with front sump
    they froze the original 390 so Ford mounted
    a new 400 in it in 74 if my memory is
    correct. So there is front sumps for them

    I dont think they have same mounts as
    302-351windsor/Cleveland thinl they
    are same as 429-460 but i can
    check tomorrow
     
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  18. vintagetinman
    Joined: Oct 22, 2007
    Posts: 157

    vintagetinman
    Member

    x2^^
     
  19. 57Custom300
    Joined: Aug 21, 2009
    Posts: 1,353

    57Custom300
    Member
    from Arizona

    Your taking out a 312 and replacing it with a 351M. I dont get it.
     
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  20. parklane
    Joined: Oct 17, 2009
    Posts: 188

    parklane
    Member

    351M makes a good boat anchor. Go with a 302 or a 351Windsor and a AOD tranny. You'll be a lot happier. :)
     
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  21. Retro Jim
    Joined: May 27, 2007
    Posts: 3,859

    Retro Jim
    Member

    Why are you wanting to take a GIANT LEAP back wards ? I worked for Ford during those years that piece of shit for an engine was put into the cars & wagons . I did so many engine swaps due to the blocks cracking under the intake in the lifter area . They had a huge recall on them ! Hands down that has to be one of the worst engines Ford ever made . they are so damn heavy and don't have any good power to do anything . I have to guess that engine was given to you .

    Honestly get rid of the 351M and have the 312 rebuilt . That 312 is one of the most sought after engines ever made by Ford . Heck if you lived close I would rebuild a 302 for you that I have now with a nice torque cam for dirt cheap with the 312 & trans as a trade in ! If you don't have the 312 anymore then pick up a 302 and build a nice cruiser with a AOD trans ! If you want to shift gears then buy a T5 and have some fun ! They are all over the place thanks to the Ford Mustangs . You can get so many great shinny parts for them along with lots of performance parts so why in the world do you want to use a 351M/400 engine ? A 302/351w is really the easiest swap you can ever do in that Ford ! Parts are super easy to find and they are much cheaper than anything you want to buy for a 351M . Think about it real hard before you really want to go any farther than you already have with that 351M anchor !

    Stop by the "52 to 56 Fords" and you will see all the parts needed for a 302/351w swap . They are all listed there with parts numbers and where to buy them so you have so searching to do . If you have a question , just make a post and before the nights out , you will have all the answers you will ever need !
    One more thing to do while the engine and trans is out . this is the perfect time to replace the rusted out front frame cross member below the radiator . You can get a new one on Ebay for about $335 or so . It's very well made and fits like a glove ! I just replaced mine over the winter and could fit any nicer than it would have from the factory .

    Stop on over to the group and we will help and walk you through the entire process . Can't ask for much more than that ! :cool:

    Retro Jim
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2012
  22. Sumfuncomet
    Joined: Dec 31, 2011
    Posts: 578

    Sumfuncomet
    Member

    Forget the M motor......I've had them, thirsty low compression slugs. If it was mine.......find a 292 or 312 and put that in. If you are dead set against that put a 351w in. Much easier for stock and aftermarket parts. Lighter also than 351 boat anchor....at least you aren't putting a SBC in it!!
     
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  23. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 5,446

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    This is for all of you that don't read an entire post before replying.

    ******HE DOESN'T HAVE THE 312!!!******

     
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  24. 1jim
    Joined: Apr 18, 2012
    Posts: 4

    1jim
    Member

    I guess I learned something About 351m,s I got this 56 at a auction no motor or trans look like it had couple differant eng/tran in it I got this old ltd with good running motor so what did I think ? well now I think I,m going to try to trade LTD for 302 . and yes I would much rather have 272,292 or 312.but THANKS anyway ...
     
  25. vintagetinman
    Joined: Oct 22, 2007
    Posts: 157

    vintagetinman
    Member

    FE engines are a bolt in affair find a running 352 or 390 .the FE's use the same mounts as the y-block and have loads more power
     
  26. Is this swap really that easy? I just picked up a 352 to drop into my 56 Mercury and I'm wondering what I'll be getting myself into.
    Thanks so much!
     
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  27. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 5,185

    sunbeam
    Member

    I think you will find 351M and 400s are lighter than a Y block Hopefully you have a 400. 1978 motor were smog tuned ,pretty easy to add HP from stock A better carb and cam and distributer curve and torque will be in the 400 range a little over for a 400 little under for a 351. The heads flow well but combustion chambers suck. Detonation is a problem. As for mounts you might look at these. https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Ford-351M-400-Motor-Mounts,3275.html
     
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  28. glrbird
    Joined: Dec 20, 2010
    Posts: 556

    glrbird
    Member

    What ever you put in it , the exhaust is the problem. It has to exit at rear of manifold or fender well headers it is, FE’s fit good but a little harder to find.
     
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  29. Thank you for the advice! I was wondering about that. I think I might be able to get some short or side stepped headers on there? The 352 came out of a 1965 Galaxie 500
     
    Old wolf likes this.
  30. Thank you so much for the link. That does look like it should work, I need to dig into in a little more. The 352 is out of a 1965 Galaxie and it has been rebuilt about 7 years ago. It has been bored .040 over, camed with a 750 4 barrel edelbrock carb.
     

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