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Projects 55 210 Wagon Progress

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by MP&C, Mar 24, 2013.

  1. MP&C
    Joined: Jan 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,168

    MP&C
    Member

    Thanks Don!

    Spent last night getting an assembly line going to get the rest of the speaker grills assembled. Just say no to plastic speaker grills!

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  2. Robert, the speaker covers look like jewellery, definitely thinking outside the box. HRP
     
  3. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 9,576

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta

    I think that if the bill for all the hours in this project were accurately calculated and invoiced we could call this the quarter million dollar 55 :D
     
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  4. Speaker grills look great!
     
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  5. MP&C
    Joined: Jan 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,168

    MP&C
    Member

    Well it's been rather hectic around the home front as E is nearing graduation. Seems like yesterday she was showing me how to properly wet sand bare foot..

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    For shop activity, Mike has been working on a sign for a "Drummer's Lounge", since we had the wire edging tool already made up for the Biederman, he used that to give the outside bands of the arrow the beaded look...

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    CAD drawing:

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    Parts is parts:

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    Video:



    Meanwhile, I've been block sanding, and priming.... here the rear kick panels are now ready for upholstery...

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    I did break out the Meco torch again the other day to get the dust off....

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    This first coupon shows how Peter Tommasini teaches tacking in gas welding. Tack a spot, then the next is placed where the HAZ (blue ring) touches the seam between the halves. And repeat. Note how this method leaves an almost perfect HAZ for minimal distortion..

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    And we had a blowout. Don't stop, keep going and come back to it.. This is fusion welded, no filler, front side shown first, then back side

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    Stephen has been mocking up the power windows in the front doors so we can side step all the components and find a good location for our speakers. No pictures yet, I'll get some this week...
     
  6. MP&C
    Joined: Jan 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,168

    MP&C
    Member

    We're making some speaker "adapter" rings to be able to mount the speakers in the door. We used some 18 ga CRS to form rings, the seam was gas welded.

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    The outer flange is started on the Fasti-werks bead roller using the tipping die and the lower die we made last week.

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    Once it started to resist the tipping (needs stretching of the flange) we changed to using the linear stretch dies in the Lennox TE250







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    Originally we were looking at using the area below the power window motor, but in order to clear the power connector it would be too close to the bottom of the door...

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    With not much else for room in the door, we opted to open a hole at the rear area of the inner hinge brace.

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    With space above for the tweeter, this will closely mimic what we have in the rear kick panels..

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    The rings will get TIG welded in place, but before that we'll add a bit of structure back in the hinge brace.

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  7. rockable
    Joined: Dec 21, 2009
    Posts: 2,538

    rockable
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Very nice! How did you shrink the inner flange?
     
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  8. MP&C
    Joined: Jan 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,168

    MP&C
    Member

    kick shrinker took it over to about 20-25 degrees, then used Vise grip tuckers and heat on the tucks, hammering on a 2" diameter slug of steel.
     
  9. rockable
    Joined: Dec 21, 2009
    Posts: 2,538

    rockable
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I knew it wasn't straightforward and easy. Thanks! Great work!

    Could you post a picturecture of that vise grip tucker?
     
  10. MP&C
    Joined: Jan 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,168

    MP&C
    Member

    Here's a post I did that shows building the tool as well as using it...


    To expand on the pictures from OJ's event this past weekend, here is an online friendly tech thread on shrinking that should have prefaced the lead demo.

    I didn't get as many pictures this past weekend (too many hammers in my hands) so this will be supplemented with some diagrams and previous pictures so we can make a good tech thread.

    Prior to Tom showing the body lead demo, I needed to make some panels for him to work from. We decided that a curved surface, similar to the front end of a 38 Chevy and its hood halves, would be a better fixture for showing the need for flowing lead up a slight incline. I started with two equal sized panels, and bent a flange on the long edge. Then discussed some of the issues faced when shrinking a flange. For demonstration purposes, in the following example we have a 12" long panel with a 1-1/2" wide flange.

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    If we were to look at the same panel with a radius, formed by shrinking the flange, we would note dimensions similar to as follows:

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    ....where the 90 degree bend at the flange still retains its 12" length, the centerline of the flange in this case is shortened by almost an inch, and the outer edge of the flange shortened by almost another inch.

    In working with the Lancaster/Eastwood style shrinker-stretcher machines, it is important to note that they are a linear device, the movement they introduce into the metal is in a straight line.

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    So that once a radius starts to form, and with the shrinking device still moving in a linear fashion, the outer edge of the flange will be put into tension as the centerline shrinks. Anyone who has used these devices will have seen this as the machine starts to lose its effectiveness.

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    To counter this effect, we need to shrink the outer edge of the flange more than the inner. By simply alternating the depth of the shrink as shown, you can provide more shrink to the outer edge and the device will become more effective.

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    Another method of shrinking is with the use of tucks. Looking at their shape, the tuck has a wider "gather" at the edge of the flange as compared to the inside bend of the flange, so this eliminates some of the tension issues seen in the mechanical shrinker.

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    Where the demos this past weekend were supposed to concentrate on using only hand tools so that the participants could readily duplicate the results without the need for a major purchase, we did find the use of the Shrinker a good comparison, and by chance the tuck shrinking did prove to be faster and more effective.
    For the tuck shrinking, one can use tucking forks, rounded jaw pliers (by design or modification) or special designed devices. As an example, here is a set of tucking forks I made out of some scrap metal and 5/8 bolts turned down.

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    And a pair made from needle nose pliers..

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    Probably the biggest challenge with their use is producing consistent tucks. To produce a flowing, consistent radius, we should start with consistent tucks, both in size and the spacing between them.
    I decided to make a pair of tucking pliers out of Vice Grips, as the jaw adjustment on them would prove to give repeatable sized tucks.
    We'll start off by finding a pair of vise grips suitable for the job, which in this case means the jaw serrations are starting to wear and round off and won't grip much of anything else. Finish what has started by removing the serrations to produce a nice flat jaw on the bottom, and cut the top one off at about 30 degrees from its original position.

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    I had some extra long shouldered 3/8 bolts, perfect round stock for the job. Three of them were cut off to 1-1/2" length.

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    Here's my economy model lathe made by Dewalt...

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    To set the spacing for the "fingers" the first is clamped in the vise grip jaw, centered.

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    The outer is placed next to it and then welded down the outside, center finger removed, and then welded down inside. Here we should leave a slight gap of your sheet metal thickness to prevent any binding, which will allow a deeper tuck.

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    Repeat for opposite side, then weld center finger.

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    Note in the above picture the 30 degree cut of the upper jaw positions the center finger at an angle compared to the bottom fingers. It is this angle that will help to form the tuck's shape.

    Of course I took my favorite anvil along to the meet, here clamped in the vise..

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    Again our object in this case is consistency, so equally spaced marks are placed on the flange, identical tucks made at each mark, and you can see the consistent radius along the panel.

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    I use a O/A torch to heat the tucks prior to hammering them flat. Others prefer to not use heat, and can capture the tuck and flatten it very effectively without it. I am still working on this proficiency, so in the meantime, I use heat. We're looking for something like this, prior to hammering.

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    Here OJ assists with torch duties...

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    Another point to mention is that the hammering action tends to also spread the tuck back apart if not captured effectively. Where the picture above doesn't show it well, a good means of overcoming this would be to clamp a strap of metal across the ends of the newly formed radius prior to hammering, similar to this:

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    Then the hammering force will be more effective in flattening the tuck back into itself.

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    Once each piece was completed separately, the flanges were aligned back to back and the two pieces tacked together. Each had an identical radius, for a good fit. Consistency pays off!

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  11. rockable
    Joined: Dec 21, 2009
    Posts: 2,538

    rockable
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Thanks for that excellent tech lesson, Robert! I'm sure I can put that to use sometime soon.

    Are you aware of any Metal Meets in the southeast? I would love to participate in one and learn more from the "pros"!
     
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  12. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 13,719

    alchemy
    Member

    Thank you for the tucking lesson. I'll have to make one of those vice-grip forks.

    We can see how OJ lost his hair. o_O
     
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  13. MP&C
    Joined: Jan 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,168

    MP&C
    Member

    Not aware of any at the moment, will let you know if I hear of any..


    He was a bit close with the heat, wasn't he! If making that vise grip tool don't forget the taper cut on the top jaw. Gives a nice taper on the tuck for less distortion/marking of the panel.




    Mike is still plugging away on the Drummer's Lounge sign.

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    Saturday he started fabrication of the insert panels. One side will be plug welded in place, the other will be removeable to access the wiring for the flashing lights.

    Tracing the first pattern onto some 19 ga crs, and adding mounting flanges.

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    The bend lines are run through the bead roller with a tipping die into the skate board wheel to better mark the bend location. Makes it easier to locate the upper press brake die as it will fall into the indent.

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    Since everything is a tool, and we needed to fold down a bit of metal in the inside corner, a piece of angle is chosen for it's inside radius match and a body hammer with a nice barrel roll on it does the trick...

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    Side #2....

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    While he was busy with that, I continued on our speaker mount modification to the doors. Since we had cut away at the hinge mounting structure, we needed to add strength back in that surrounded the speaker. We chose a cone shape over cylindrical as we thought that would have less chance of collapse under stress. Our pattern is cut out and transferred to some 14 gauge cold rolled, the same thickness as the hinge structure.

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    I forgot to get pictures of us rolling the cones, but basically as shown here with the pattern, the bend line was kept aligned with the vertex of the outer angle cuts, and slightly pressed, move and repeat, and continued until we have a good roll where the ends met up.

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    We plan on wire edge on the edge inside the square opening, so let's use gas welding for a more pliable weld area.

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    The cone is then trimmed to fit the structure profile...

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    Flange is left for our wire edging of the open area...

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    The flange is tipped on the bead roller and then used the linear stretch dies in the Lennox to both stretch and tip the flange over to flat.

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    Then we use this modified Craftsman punch to hammer over a rounded void for the 3/16 wire to lay in..

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    Then we have some modified vise grips that have a relief cut into the top so it won't slip off the wire when clamped.

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    The wires were left long so they could better tie into the hinge structure, here the VEE relief is where the wire will weld to that structure.



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    Tacked in place with the MIG, then TIG welded....

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    All cleaned up and then primed with some epoxy primer before we weld the speaker mounting ring in place.

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    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
  14. MP&C
    Joined: Jan 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,168

    MP&C
    Member

    Back on our speaker mounting ring, we welded on some 8-32 hex nuts on the back side....

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    Then the ring is TIG welded in the door...

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    After welding, the area is scuffed and brush painted using SPI epoxy primer.

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  15. 0NE BAD 51 MERC
    Joined: Nov 12, 2010
    Posts: 878

    0NE BAD 51 MERC
    Member

    Robert. I think you have more time in making special tools for this project than most would want in the whole car!! As always excellent work. Are we thinking paint by 2023??? lol Larry
     
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  16. MP&C
    Joined: Jan 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,168

    MP&C
    Member

    Maybe able to make that one.... :D
     
  17. belair
    Joined: Jul 10, 2006
    Posts: 7,936

    belair
    Member

    Vise Grips...is there nothing they can't do. Thanks again for showing us how the gods do it.
     
  18. MP&C
    Joined: Jan 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,168

    MP&C
    Member

    I have a bunch of them that have been modified for one purpose or another. If you don’t have the tool, make it!! :D
     
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  19. MP&C
    Joined: Jan 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,168

    MP&C
    Member

    Passenger door modifications, inner structure added...

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    …..speaker mounting ring welded in place and brush painted using SPI epoxy primer..

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    In our attempt to finalize all the needed fabrications before getting deep into paint mode, we had some clearance issues to deal with on the Vintage Air bracket for the AC compressor. The initial mockup showed that the upper mounting tab was too close to the tall valve covers we have on the 383 stroker. A half inch spacer under the intake mounting tab gives us about 1/4" clearance, and shows how much we need to modify the water pump mounting tab.

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    I didn't have much in the selection of 1/4" flat stock, so the shoulder of a 5/16 bolt was used, first the root pass and then a filler pass.

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    Another part checked off the list....
     
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  20. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 19,776

    loudbang
    Member

    As usual everything you do it topnotch. Is there ANYTHING on this car that hasn't been improved or modified LOL? :)
     
  21. MP&C
    Joined: Jan 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,168

    MP&C
    Member

    :D

    Time to play catch-up, had a short hiatus in Upstate NY on the St Lawrence river.
    Daytime and sunset:

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    I picked up some louver dies that are set up for the press brake but should be the start of a louver press eventually... got both 2" and 3" dies.

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    I also have a couple good friends that understand my tool addiction that both sent me a link to an ad for body tools, especially for the Vise Grips. Here's what I picked up from a retired bodyman, now to keep these quality tools going. VG collection is now over 130.. never enough.

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    ...and with the engine brackets back from powder coating, and our new 45* water neck arrived, we were able to get the belts and upper hose all mocked up. The hose we used was a Dayco 72384, made as a lower hose for a V6 Ford Explorer, but it fits this application like a glove...

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    Video version:





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  22. Hope it was cooler in Upstate N.Y. than here, Robert......At least it was some beautiful scenery.........Don.
     
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  23. JOECOOL
    Joined: Jan 13, 2004
    Posts: 2,731

    JOECOOL
    Member

    Thanks for the tutorial on the tucking tools.
     
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  24. MP&C
    Joined: Jan 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,168

    MP&C
    Member

    Spent some time organizing, needed some racks for all the Lennox dies..

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    One set down, two more to go....
     
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