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Projects 55 210 Wagon Progress

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by MP&C, Mar 24, 2013.

  1. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 29,012

    loudbang
    Member

    After all your hard work making it the best ever 1955 210 wagon what are the owners plans for it in the future when it is done?
     
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  2. MP&C
    Joined: Jan 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,259

    MP&C
    Member

    As far as I know, drive the wheels off it. After we get the wheel wells in place and the brackets for seats in the floor it goes off for some Line-X on the bottom and in wheel wells. Some rock chip protection as well as sound deadening. They assured us they could apply it in a smooth finish instead of the wrinkled look, so that's what the owner wants..
     
  3. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 29,012

    loudbang
    Member

    That is GREAT NEWS feared it would end up a show car that only a few lucky people would get to see.
     
  4. MP&C
    Joined: Jan 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,259

    MP&C
    Member

    Welded some more TIG coupons last night. I had some questions about weld placement, so I decided to do some samples that mimicked various body shape types.


    First, we have a flat version, this would simulate the flat area at the bottom of a door skin...


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    The second panel has more crown, such as toward the top of a quarter/door skin....


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    Comparing the two...


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    Next, we have a repair piece that is joined at the beltline bead...


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    The flat area distorts quite a bit... Normally we would planish the weld after cooling to remove this distortion, but here it was left to better compare distortion amounts..


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    Looking at the three samples, the flat one moves/distorts the most. The crowned panel a bit less, the beltline bead even less..


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    This helps to show the benefit of weld seam locations, we should select anything but the low crown/flat areas if at all possible.. The crowned areas or those with beltline bead details will help to hold any distortion in check.
     
  5. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 15,477

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    But, wouldn't it be easier to reshape the distortion out of the flat-ish panel, rather than reshape the distortion out of the beaded area? There's got to be some distortion in that beaded panel too. I'd always thought it best to do a panel replacement seam out in the open where you can move the metal around and get some hammers and dollies in there, instead of right on top of a bead.
     
  6. MP&C
    Joined: Jan 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,259

    MP&C
    Member

    As long as you have a dolly that matches the back of the panel, choose the area that gives you less problems to correct. A solid piece of round stock with a handle welded on (ie: T-dolly) would work wonders. The next thing is to choose the process that introduces less issues to fix. A non-stop weld pass in TIG or O/A won't have those stop and start areas where puckers show up. A fusion weld helps to limit the time you are doinking around adding filler, so it helps limit the HAZ. As shown above, weld seam location has a large effect on distortion. So it boils down to picking the methods/areas etc that all limit distortion and use that to your advantage.

    If it takes a bit longer to make the panel larger where you don't have perpendicular welds for those inside corner puckers, then do so. More than likely you will have less time in the metal bumping/straightening that will offset the extra time in fabrication. All food for thought, derived from welding on scraps.. :D
     
  7. 0NE BAD 51 MERC
    Joined: Nov 12, 2010
    Posts: 1,222

    0NE BAD 51 MERC
    Member

    I always run into the issue of either removing or working around something that is behind at least part of the seam to work out the distortion. And it always takes 10 times longer than the customer thinks it will! lol But I guess that's why plastic filler or lead is near by:rolleyes:. Always informative as usual Robert . Even for those of us who think they Know it all:rolleyes:. Larry
     
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  8. bengeltiger
    Joined: Mar 3, 2012
    Posts: 469

    bengeltiger
    Member

    Thanks for taking the time to demonstrate this since this effort obviously doesn't pay the bills. I've been following this thread for quite some time and your willingness to stop and document a process has had a tremendous influence on my skill set.
     
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  9. MP&C
    Joined: Jan 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,259

    MP&C
    Member

    Thanks for the comments guys!

    With the rockers and inner quarters covered with some SPI epoxy primer, tonight we'll get the quarter panel baffles welded in place so we can install the wheel wells.


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    Here's our home-made baffles:


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    Primer cleaned off for the plug weld holes..


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    Kyle plug welding:





    Now plug welded in, we'll clean up these welds tomorrow evening, epoxy prime and seam seal around the top profile of the baffle inside the window extrusion area.


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  10. MP&C
    Joined: Jan 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,259

    MP&C
    Member

    When we fabricated the quarter panel baffles we trimmed the upper profile to leave about a 1/16" gap, so that any possible body flex would be less likely to rub paint..


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    Plus, it gives a good anchor for the seam sealer....


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    Then we used masking tape to mark off the edges of the flange so we could transpose these to the wheel well for drilling plug weld holes...


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  11. Staggering build... you have conjured up a new '55 Chevy wagon.
     
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  12. dcs13
    Joined: Sep 28, 2010
    Posts: 107

    dcs13
    Member

    Robert, I am always in awe. Thanks for sharing..
     
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  13. MP&C
    Joined: Jan 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,259

    MP&C
    Member

    Thanks guys!


    Fitting up the one piece wheel well into the passenger side quarter. Once fitted, the edge is marked with tape, wheel well removed, and the width available beneath for plug welds is noted. Then holes are punched in the wheel well to match, and it gets refitted. We started at the front so we could use vise grips to clamp, and worked progressively toward the back.


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    We did have a few plug welds that were contaminated from the epoxy primer, so we'll grind everything smooth, fix those areas, redress the welds and finish any bare areas with epoxy primer. One step closer to the Line-x coating on the underside...


    Here we are all tacked in place:




    .
     
  14. MP&C
    Joined: Jan 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,259

    MP&C
    Member

    All plug welds completed and dressed. Now for the other side and we'll epoxy prime again..


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  15. 41 coupe
    Joined: Nov 29, 2009
    Posts: 281

    41 coupe
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from bristol pa

    All of that fantastic work and it is going to be hidden away!!!
     
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  16. MP&C
    Joined: Jan 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,259

    MP&C
    Member

    Can't wait to sling some mud on it!
     
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  17. low budget
    Joined: Nov 15, 2006
    Posts: 5,561

    low budget
    Member
    from Central Ky

    This thread will be 4 years old in march and you said you had worked on it for years before that, and it will probably take a few more, It should be nice but I hope the lady that owns it can afford it and is still young enough to enjoy it when its done:)
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2016
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  18. MP&C
    Joined: Jan 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,259

    MP&C
    Member

    That's the pitfalls of being a part time car fixer upper and having a day job that involves FAR too much travel..
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2016
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  19. MP&C
    Joined: Jan 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,259

    MP&C
    Member

    Tonight we worked on getting the driver's side wheel well installed. To help eliminate the contamination issue from the close proximity of the primer, we used these piloted burnishing brushes to remove the paint around the plug weld holes on both front and back sides...


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    That did the trick, no volcanoes this time...


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    Next we'll need to dress these welds and epoxy prime the bare spots.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2016
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  20. JOECOOL
    Joined: Jan 13, 2004
    Posts: 2,758

    JOECOOL
    Member

    It seems I always have so many question s, thanks you for answering them . I am currently welding up my door edges to establish proper gaps . I only do it in very small increments.A friend of a friend was over and said I should hit the welds with an air hose to quickly cool the welds . Is this a good practice? thanks again .
     
  21. MP&C
    Joined: Jan 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,259

    MP&C
    Member

    Joe, unless you are doing some torch shrinking, I see no benefit to artificial cooling. On torch shrinking the forced cooling allows you to see the shrinking effect more quickly for addressing the next spot. For welding, a gradual cooling IMO leaves the weld softer for an easier task of planishing. Let it cool on it's own and see how it works out for you.. I feel the weld is going to shrink regardless of what voodoo method used to combat the issue, just let it do what it's going to do and planish the shrinks afterward.


    Here's the path we took on the seat risers....it's been a while now that GM has used wood in the vehicle, no sense in us bucking that trend! Started by fabbing up some 14 gauge steel into a hat section and left some longer ears on the ends to fold down and close the ends off..


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    Stainless hex nut welded inside for the seat frame hardware..


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    Missed getting these pics on the other end, but cardboard templates were transposed to steel fillers, cut out and welded in place, along with the flanges around the perimeter.


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    Finished up the plug welds on the driver's wheel well. We'll get a few more parts prepped for epoxy and address those bare spots at the same time.


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    Last edited: Jan 6, 2017
  22. MP&C
    Joined: Jan 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,259

    MP&C
    Member

    Seat riser bracket number two fabrication, got more detail pictures this time..

    Used the Tipping die in the Lennox to thin out the crease line, makes for a more crisp bend, especially given the 14 gauge steel we're using...


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    After bending in the Diacro manual press brake using the gooseneck die...


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    Fitting and trimming the end transitions while matched to the floor...


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    Ready for the TIG


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  23. Those seat risers look a bit light to me.... By the '50s, pretty much all front seats were anchored at the back through the floor and with either additional reinforcement under the floor or actually attached through a frame member. The idea being that in the event of an accident, any back seat passengers or just the weight of the seat wouldn't tear the seat loose and pin the front seat passengers into the dash. If that tack-welded nut pulls through, the seat becomes a projectile...
     
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  24. MP&C
    Joined: Jan 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,259

    MP&C
    Member

    The risers are made from 14 gauge cold rolled steel and will be plug welded across the back end and front end through the floor pan into the floor cross-member, as well as down both sides into the floor pan. The 5/8-11 nut at the rear (3/8-16 used in the front) was tack welded at the top merely to center it within the hole. Once this was complete it was then Tig welded to the riser on the under side. I'd prefer to have through bolts with a reinforcement plate beneath, but given the need for risers to get the seat in the air a bit, that became less of an option and still look halfway decent.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2017
  25. Maybe a piece of tubing extending down through the floor (to prevent crushing the riser) and a longer bolt....
     
  26. MP&C
    Joined: Jan 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,259

    MP&C
    Member

    Today the passenger bucket seat was test fit onto our riser. It could be brought a bit tighter to the floor.


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    Next, looking at the cross member, the rear flange (red arrows) didn't match up to the rear flange of our riser.


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    The blue tape shows the rear flange of the cross member below...


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    Here's our updated riser, half as tall, and once trimmed the flange will match to above the cross member..


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  27. MP&C
    Joined: Jan 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,259

    MP&C
    Member

    More details on the seat risers, here the 5/8-11 hex nut is welded inside. The tacks at the top are merely to hold it centered within the hole to maintain our correct C-C hole spacing. It gets welded inside as well to keep things anchored in place.


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    The 5/8 hardware was chosen as the factory seat bracket on these 2002 Monte Carlo seats had a hole that large existing already. The front of the seat bracket actually had another bracket underneath that was held in place with a solid rivet. We drilled out the rivet to remove the obstacle (so the rail was flat across the bottom), and opened the hole up for 3/8 hardware.


    Test fit....


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    Still need to fill in the flange corners on the front and this one will be ready for SPI epoxy primer to coat all the surfaces before it gets welded in place..
     
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  28. Johnboy34
    Joined: Jul 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,214

    Johnboy34
    Member
    from Seattle,Wa

  29. MP&C
    Joined: Jan 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,259

    MP&C
    Member

    Thanks!

    Moving on to the outer risers, these ones will be a bit taller due to the recess where the original seat frames bolted. We started out with using the tipping die in the Lennox to thin the 14 gauge cold rolled steel at the bend line for a more crisp bend.





    Next, after making the inside bends, the Fasti-werks bead roller is used with a skate board wheel to add a radius to the outer "leg" of the riser.


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    Next time in the shop we'll get the ends closed up.....
     
  30. Robert
    Nice work as always . I need to bring my pencil to class .
    Got to ask , what do you use the big chain for that is around the front leg of the Lennox ?
    Thanks for taking us along this journey.
    Blue
     
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