Technical 51 Flathead V8 Grinding noise

Hello,

After a few months of no luck, I have finally got fire to my Flathead V8. However, I discovered a very loud grinding noise, that gets louder if you lay under the truck. You don’t hear the noise until the motor fires and everything is brand new. It sounded like the starter wasn’t disengaged from the flywheel, I put a new starter on it and it’s still there. Any help?

 

which motor? which flywheel ? generator and water pumps spin freely?

 

Need to provide more info. as rusty valley suggested. Also, year, make and model of vehicle with
photos might help.

Are you using the correct matching starter, flywheel and bell housing ( if it's an 8BA)?
Is the little support clamp from the rear of the starter to the oil pan bolt installed? It holds up the end of the starter.
Does the noise change when you depress the clutch?
Does the noise go away when you remove the water pump and generator belt?

Pull the starter and see what the flywheel looks like.

 

It is a 1951 Flathead V8 8BA. It is in a 1952 Ford Pickup. The starter and flywheel look fine. There is a new ring gear on the flywheel and it looks fine as well. The noise doesn’t change if you push the clutch in. It is an after market starter so it doesn’t require the clamp.

 

Here are some pictures... let me know if there is any other ones you would like. I really appreciate any help

 

The pics look great,,,,,,can you centralize the noise ?
About where is the noise located,,,,,front ,,back,,,,flywheel,,,oil pan,,,timing cover area ?

Also,,,,if possible a short video with sound could help as well,,,,,a lot of guys here with knowledge .

Tommy

 

Hey Tommy. You can hear it anywhere, but it is a lot louder if you lay under the truck near the transmission. So near oil pan/transmission would be my guess

 

it sounds like you need to space the starter away from the flywheel. try 0.100

 

Okay,
Are you certain the flywheel ring gear is not rubbing the bellhousing,,starter plate anywhere ?
Or,,,the flywheel bolts are the correct type and length ?

Tommy

 

The flywheel teeth still look brand new. Wouldn’t they have some chips in them a little if they were hitting the bell housing?

 

Factory Ford starter Bendix pulled in. Your new starter is a push. Make sure on all your clearances.
I like other suggest removing the belt first. Many things are eliminated. Good luck.

 

The ring can rub from the back side,,,,,the teeth themselves will look fine .
Also,,,,,certain flywheels will have a raised portion on the back .
It can be rubbing there and you definitely won’t see it until you tear it apart .
These engines are so old and many parts have been swapped or replaced.
Sometimes even though the parts will bolt together,,,,they don’t necessarily fit .

And the starters are different as well,,,,check everything.

Tommy

 

Out of curiosity, what can be eliminate by taking the belts off? The noise is near the rear of the engine.

 

Okay. Sounds like my next step is going to be separate the engine and tranny. I’ll keep everyone updated

 

The belts only drive the water pumps and generator,,,,,it’s just a normal troubleshooting method to remove the belts .

Tommy

 

Can you just remove the inspection plate,,,I’m assuming your bellhousing has one ?
Also,,,,remove the starter and take a pic,,,,,is it correct for this application ?

Tommy

 

I can remove the starter the next time I’m at my shop. Got some stuff to do at the house. Starter came from Summit Performance and the gentleman said it was the right one that bolted in the factory spot.

 

Okay,,,,as long as the extended drive is correct,,,,it should be okay .
Like the man said ,,,,these require a pull drive,,,,the drive is extended several inches from the starter housing .

Tommy

 

Also, it still made the noise with the original starter on it. I thought the noise was the starter not disengaging from the flywheel, so I got a new starter and it’s the same. Couldn’t be that easy lol

 

A bad throw out bearing will make a growling noise, is that what you may be hearing?

A sound clip will help a lot here.

 

Yes you’re right,,,,as long as the original starter was correct.
Here are some pics of Ford starters,,,,you need the one with the long drive .
By the way,,,,,those are probably not correct part numbers,,,I just grabbed some pics for an example.

 

The top one is the one I have. I’ll get a sound clip sometime

 

Okay,,,double check your starter application .
I could be wrong,,,,,,there were many different styles for these engines .
That looks like a late model style,,,,,not correct for a Flathead .

And there are a lot more guys on here a lot smarter and experienced with flatheads than me .
I hope they chime in and help just to be certain .

But , I suspect the starter .

Tommy

 

A long time ago, I made the mistake of putting the clutch plate in backwards.

 

Here is a photo of the starter in my 1949-53 8BA flathead.
I also use the little bracket that bolts to the oil pan and rear of starter.
The stock starter pulls the Bendix starter gear into the backside of the ring gear and then is kicked back after engine starts.
Visually check to make sure the ring gear bevel of the teeth points to the rear of the car.

The PWM-92507 starter shown is 12V, not 6. You can operate the OEM 6 VOLT starter on 12 V.
As long as you don't keep cranking the engine for long periods of time the 6V starter will last for years.

 

I'd look through the small inspection cover on the top of the transmission before you start pulling things apart. You could see if the throwout bearing is bad, the clutch disk is backwards, the pressure plate is maybe touching the trans, or maybe even find scrape marks somewhere else. And it only involves removing the transmission hump and two tiny screws on the plate.

If you can't see anything from there, I'd next remove the starter and starter mounting plate behind the oil pan. Maybe you can see scrape marks on the backside of the flywheel.

These things are lots easier than removing the transmission.

 

I had a Powermaster starter like the second picture. Something broke internally while it was under warranty and the shop that sold it to me fixed it no charge. Several thousand miles later it completely self destructed. Took it apart and it was cheaperer than cheap in side. Any reason why you're not running a stock configuration starter? They're available in 12 volts or you can use a 6 volt on 12 volts. I'd change the starter before going any farther. And even if the problem turns out not to be the starter, ditch the Powermaster. JMO

 

New does not equal good (especially if it's an aftermarket part).

 

NEW=Never Ever Worked

 

51504bat makes a great suggestion. I recall one of his posts a while back wherehis flathead Power master flathead starter self destructed. First try installing a stock OEM 8BA starter. First, you must read this Fordbarn thread:
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=295221&highlight=convert+6v+starter+12V&page=3

If , later on you want to change the starter to 12 volts buy a new 1964 Ford Galaxzey starter and insert your 1953 OEM starter armature inside the Galaxey case. Galaxey starters are available on EBAY. Here's how: Just click on the link. Tons of great info.
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=211141&highlight=convert+starter+12v