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Projects '51 Chevy powerglide to t5 swap

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by StefanS, Sep 30, 2016.

  1. e1956v
    Joined: Sep 29, 2009
    Posts: 1,735

    e1956v
    Alliance Vendor

    Mechanical speedometer driven T5s are getting harder to find in the bone yards. This just gives guys another option.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  2. Understood.
     
  3. upspirate
    Joined: Apr 15, 2012
    Posts: 2,277

    upspirate
    Member

  4. StefanS
    Joined: Oct 7, 2013
    Posts: 1,098

    StefanS
    Member
    from Maryland

    The yard near me (where I got my rear) only deals in trucks and they told me that the mechanical t5s sell as soon as they come in. I'm thinking they have something worked out with someone so they get dibs on all f them
     
  5. e1956v
    Joined: Sep 29, 2009
    Posts: 1,735

    e1956v
    Alliance Vendor

    upspirate likes this.
  6. StefanS
    Joined: Oct 7, 2013
    Posts: 1,098

    StefanS
    Member
    from Maryland

    I read somewhere today that the s10 t4 and t5 tailshaft housings are the same. Is that correct or do the t4s not have the 5th speed hump (I don't see why they would but who knows)? I have access to an early 80s s10 with a t4 but it's still in the truck and the trucks sitting on the brakes.
     
  7. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 18,325

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Different part number, different part.

    They are VERY different. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
     
  8. jlckmj
    Joined: Oct 28, 2008
    Posts: 59

    jlckmj
    Member

    It may be a different part number, but according to Lugnutz, who I consider to be one of the T5 guru's, it will work.
    His web site is packed full of T5 info, one of the most comprehensive I have seen on T5's...

    http://lugnutz65chevystepside.weebly.com/t5-info-page.html

    Check the last article about T5 tail stock. He shows just what you are looking for...
    he is also a really nice guy, if you have any questions, email him and he will get back to you.

    Good luck,
    Jim
     
  9. StefanS
    Joined: Oct 7, 2013
    Posts: 1,098

    StefanS
    Member
    from Maryland

    That's exactly the article I read that prompted my post.
     
  10. Good T5 info, but I didn't see comparisons regarding T5 vs T4's from Lugnutz.
    Did I miss something or is there no info on the T4.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2016
  11. StefanS
    Joined: Oct 7, 2013
    Posts: 1,098

    StefanS
    Member
    from Maryland

    The t4 is mentioned a few posts above yours but not in great detail
     
  12. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 18,325

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The tail stock that he shows on that T4 has a part number that starts with 1352.

    Do you know what that means?

    It is a T5 part.

    All T4 parts start with 1351.

    Yes, you can put a T5 tailstock on a T4, but you absolutely cannot go the other way.

    Borg Warner may have run short, or saved money on the line at some point, buy absolutely no T4's from early S10's have a T5 tailstock on them, because it hadn't been made yet.

    A 1351 tailstock has no space for the 5th gear cluster.
     
  13. upspirate
    Joined: Apr 15, 2012
    Posts: 2,277

    upspirate
    Member

    Educate me please. I had not heard of a T-4 , what is it,a 4 spd o/d transmission? Or just a 4 spd 1/1 final gear?
     
  14. upspirate
    Joined: Apr 15, 2012
    Posts: 2,277

    upspirate
    Member

    I did have a 4 spd trans behind a 1.8 Isuzu engine in a GMC S-15....maybe that was a T-4 ?
     
  15. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 18,325

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    It is the predecessor to the T5.

    Looks very similar, just no overdrive.

    Same main case, top cover, and a few other parts.

    Mid-run T5's can be found with parts that bear part number that would indicate that they are for a T4.
     
  16. upspirate
    Joined: Apr 15, 2012
    Posts: 2,277

    upspirate
    Member

    Thanks Gimpy. Is it a 5 spd though?
     
  17. jlckmj
    Joined: Oct 28, 2008
    Posts: 59

    jlckmj
    Member

    That makes sense.
    I am guessing that they swapped parts when it was convenient.
    Jim
     
  18. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 18,325

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    A T4 is a 4-speed.
     
    upspirate likes this.
  19. upspirate
    Joined: Apr 15, 2012
    Posts: 2,277

    upspirate
    Member

  20. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 18,325

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    For clarification, and visual identification, this is a T4:

    [​IMG]

    And this is a T5:
    [​IMG]
    Note that they are VERY similar in appearance.

    The metal tag and sticker on top of the T4 will start with 13-51, and the sticker should be blue and white.
    [​IMG]

    The metal tag and sticker on top of the T5 will start with 13-52, and the sticker should be green and white.
    [​IMG]

    Also note, both output housings were revised a few times, so there are a few variants.

    Also a S10 T5, note the different tail:
    [​IMG]
    Do not rely on case part numbers for identification, as T4's and T5's share parts.
     
    upspirate likes this.
  21. This thread has taken a left turn to T4 and T5 trannys.
    Stefan, when are you planning on doing this swap ?
     
  22. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 18,325

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    How so?

    Have a look at the thread title. Something about swapping from a Powerglide to a T5.

    Cautioning readers to not accidentally buy a similar to T5 looking T4, seems to be directly relevant to the original topic.
     
  23. ok
     
  24. upspirate
    Joined: Apr 15, 2012
    Posts: 2,277

    upspirate
    Member

    Sorry for the left turn , but then again if someone was following along to do it themselves and picked up a T-4 by error , they would be pissed. So I think this talk kinda goes along with the op
     
    bobg1951chevy likes this.
  25. StefanS
    Joined: Oct 7, 2013
    Posts: 1,098

    StefanS
    Member
    from Maryland

    I'm looking for a garage as we speak so as soon as I find one, it's game time. I do have a question about balancers though. The truck motors is bigger than my car motors. Is there any reason they went to a bigger balancer (it seems that it would be expensive for gm to do "just because"), or will mine work on the truck motor without causing any harmonic issues? I know people have done it but, that doesn't mean it should be done and there are no negative internal engine effects
     
  26. Regarding balancer ... do you have 235 or 261 or ?
     
  27. StefanS
    Joined: Oct 7, 2013
    Posts: 1,098

    StefanS
    Member
    from Maryland

    In the car I have a '51 235 which has the small balancer with the crank jaws. Of course the truck motor is a 235 with the big balancer
     
  28. StefanS
    Joined: Oct 7, 2013
    Posts: 1,098

    StefanS
    Member
    from Maryland

    Gotta love setbacks. My current 235s water pump bearing is squeaking on me now. Sounds like I have a turbo. With winter coming up, I don't want to be stranded so I'm gonna replace it but of course I'm still not ready to swap motors. I want to stick with the bigger balancer on the "new" 235, so I'm going to need a '53/'54 water pump for the narrow belt. Of course I have the wide belt on my current motor. If I buy the '54 pump, is there a way to get the pulley off so I can put my '51 pulley on it and then swap them back when I move it over to the new motor?
     
  29. StefanS
    Joined: Oct 7, 2013
    Posts: 1,098

    StefanS
    Member
    from Maryland

    Alright, I have to give a huge THANKS to DC Fabrication. He supplied my custom spring perches (1/4" thick, 1.75" w, 6" long, 1.5" hole spacing, correct size axle tube cutout for the s10 axle). I wanna say they were like $17 or so. Anyway, I started welding them up, only to realize the wire I was using was only for single pass, not the 3 or 4 I had done. I sent him an e mail to explain what I did and order a new pair. Right afterwards, one of his machines went down. So about a month went by and he sent me a message to confirm all of the measurements (these are 100% custom sized remember) and my address. He didn't however, ask for a payment method. Well, today I got them, completely welded (they come bent but not finished) and ground down. I can't say I've ever experienced customer service like that before in my life. For all of you guys swapping in an s10 rear and using factory leaf springs, DC Fabrication out of Paradise Cali is who you need to call. I'll be getting into this swap as soon as the temp rises a but since it looks like I'll be doing it outside. I just wanted to let everyone know about this place since I know this is a pretty common swap. The bottom pic is how they're normally sent out. He's also making me a custom set of spring plates for about $25 20170130_151033.jpg 20170130_151040.jpg 20170130_151051.jpg 20160811_140856.jpg
     
  30. RMONTY
    Joined: Jan 7, 2016
    Posts: 2,204

    RMONTY
    Member

    Damn those are beefy! Looks like something to go on a 4WD or something. The ones that came with my CE kit were about half that thickness and I was impressed with the size of them......you need a stick welder to get the proper penetration when welding those up in my opinion.....just sayin.....
     

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