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500 or 472 cadillac?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by clarky1966, Feb 4, 2010.

  1. clarky1966
    Joined: Jan 29, 2010
    Posts: 97

    clarky1966
    Member

    I got a cadillac engine here that I am not sure about. I know it's either a 472 or 500. The casting number on the block is 14?5200. Not sure what that is. It's either an 8 or a 5. There is a stamped number on the driverside wing across from the casting. It is 10197255. Any ideas? Please let me know. Thanks again.
     
  2. Ramblur
    Joined: Jun 15, 2005
    Posts: 2,101

    Ramblur
    Member

    Yep,5200 block is a 472-500. Best way to tell difference is to remove a plug
    and check the stroke by measuring a rod/coat hanger etc,while you turn
    it over. Lots more info here: http://www.cadillacpower.com/forum/

    Pics would help too.
     
  3. Sauli
    Joined: Jul 16, 2008
    Posts: 499

    Sauli
    Member

    BTW, what was the last year the "500" was used on the RWD sedans...?
     
  4. The Shocker
    Joined: Dec 30, 2004
    Posts: 3,538

    The Shocker
    Member

    1976 i think ...
     

  5. Rich Rogers
    Joined: Apr 8, 2006
    Posts: 2,018

    Rich Rogers
    Member

    You can pull a valve cover and run the numbers on the head to id. it
     
  6. gutrotton
    Joined: Jun 5, 2007
    Posts: 40

    gutrotton
    Member

    I have one each of these engines for sale in Wisconsin if anybody needs. One 472 w/trans and one 500.
     
  7. OldSub
    Joined: Aug 27, 2003
    Posts: 1,064

    OldSub
    Member Emeritus

    You are correct, the last year was 1976.
     
  8. OldSub
    Joined: Aug 27, 2003
    Posts: 1,064

    OldSub
    Member Emeritus

    The only internal differences between a 472 and a 500 is the crank and pistons. Externally there are signs that point to one or the other, but best bet is to measure the stroke. HEI or fuel injection probably mean 500 but check the stoke or risk being disappointed.

    I've heard stories of people finding a 472 in a '75 or '76 car after the 472 was discontinued. Some claim Cadillac built 472's to sell as 500's. I would suggest the newest of these motors are 34 years old and could easily have seen some work on the insides.

    I'm lucky enough to own three of these motors.
     
  9. DMFB
    Joined: May 22, 2009
    Posts: 545

    DMFB
    Member


    This guy is right. The casting number is that of a 500 I'm almost positive (sounds familiar). Unfortunately, the only way to tell what year the 500 you have is by looking at the pistons. All of the casting numbers are the same from 70-76. I believe the casting number you gave is the same one I have. There are a lot of cad sites that can help you out. You HAVE to have a 71-through 76.....because EVERY 500 caddy motor you will ever see for sale is a 1970, which leads me to believe there are none left, haha. (1970 had the most hp/tq of them all)
     
  10. 69fury
    Joined: Feb 24, 2009
    Posts: 1,419

    69fury
    Member

    i got a deep sump pan and special chassis hv oil pump if anyone wants ta haggle a bit.

    You need to swap dipstick holes when you switch to most aftermarket pans (drive out the ball bearing, then put it in other hole)
     
  11. Mine is a '70... Or so I would like to believe... haha.
    Truth is I have no idea what year it is..
     
  12. clarky1966
    Joined: Jan 29, 2010
    Posts: 97

    clarky1966
    Member


    I am interested. Let me know what you want for it.
     
  13. BuiltFerComfort
    Joined: Jan 24, 2007
    Posts: 1,620

    BuiltFerComfort
    Member

    This is just what I've heard - the later ones (74-75-76) had compression ratios in the eights, but were just as strong. To me that means a couple of small turbos or a healthy shot of nitrous... zoom zoom.
     
  14. clarky1966
    Joined: Jan 29, 2010
    Posts: 97

    clarky1966
    Member

    The one I got came out of a 71 deville. I saw the car. The guys says its a 472 because of the radiator cover. I was just wondering if you could tell anything by those number stamped in the block.
     
  15. 1970 was the last year GM built high compression motors. I have a 70 eldo almost think 71-76 is a better choice with todays low octane and unleaded gas
     
  16. DMFB
    Joined: May 22, 2009
    Posts: 545

    DMFB
    Member

    The 500 caddy's power dropped a ton with every year after 1970, due to the strict emission regulations. 1970-74 all have real strong torque number, which topped 500 ft. lbs. in 70. I have a 74 500 Caddy. Mine is decently built, with a mutha thumpr comp cam, milled heads (40,000) to bump the compression to 9-1, with beehive springs and aluminum rockers, a weiand 429 cobra jet tunnel ram, with 600 cfm holley carbs. It should more than surpass the specs of the 1970. You shouldn't need any turbos, superchargers, or spray.....but I wouldn't argue with it either, haha.
     
  17. DMFB
    Joined: May 22, 2009
    Posts: 545

    DMFB
    Member


    I have heard from a bunch of guys that the 70 500 runs like ass on todays fuel. You have to boost the shit out of your octane to get it to run decent.
     
  18. 40StudeDude
    Joined: Sep 19, 2002
    Posts: 9,427

    40StudeDude
    Member

    1970 500" had the most horsepower and compression ratio: 400 hp @ 4400 rpm and 10.0 to one compression.

    1971 had 365 horse @ 4400 rpm but compression ratio was dropped to 8.5 to one.

    1972 and '73 had 235 horse @ 3800 rpm and compression ratio was at 8.5 to one.

    1974 was 210 horse @ 3600 rpm and compression ratio was again dropped to 8.25 to one.

    1975 was 210 horse @ 3600 rpm and compression ratio was 8.25 to one

    1976 was 190 horse at 3600 rpm with 8.5 to one compression ratio.

    Also in 1976 they went to fuel injection on a 500", it was rated at 215 horse @ 3600 and compression ratio was 8.5 to one...

    1n 1977 they went to 425" engines and 350" engines.

    The best 500" engines are 1970 and 1971...
    R-
     
  19. clarky1966
    Joined: Jan 29, 2010
    Posts: 97

    clarky1966
    Member

    Ok, you say fuel injection. What kind? I have heard about this but not seen pics or any ideas on it. Please let me know what you know about that.
     
  20. The simple fact is that these are factory rated figures to suit Govt.
    What are the true figures?
    Anyone dynoed the later ones at all to see?
    You can bet the rated figures are way lower than actual.
     
  21. dirtracer
    Joined: Sep 3, 2008
    Posts: 174

    dirtracer
    Member

    DMFB - How much modifications did it take to put a 429 SCJ on a 500 inch cadillac?
     
  22. phat rat
    Joined: Mar 18, 2001
    Posts: 4,379

    phat rat
    Member

    Numbers don't tell a thing. As stated earlier the only difference between the 472 and the 500 is the rotating assembly. The 500 came in the Eldos from 70-76 and the rear wheel drive in 75,76. The only sure way to tell what you have is to pull a plug and measure the stroke.
     
  23. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 27,327

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Someone used to sell adapter plates to do just that.

    I just picked up a 500 and turbo 400 out of a Cad ambulance that is headed for my 71 GMC 3/4 ton. I should be able to run with the big dogs then.
     
  24. OldSub
    Joined: Aug 27, 2003
    Posts: 1,064

    OldSub
    Member Emeritus

    Two comments.

    First, the big drop from '71 to '72 is more the change in the way horse power ratings were published than a change in the motors. The motors changed very little between those two years. The drop in compression happened between '70 and '71.

    Second, the strength of these motors is the low end torque. I think if you choose one of these motors based on horse power you're missing the point and may build the rest of the drivetrain less than ideal.

    Even in '76, the last year of the 500, that motor pulled a very heavy car with finesse with gears about 3:1. Think torque as you build using this motor.

    Its easy to choose gears that are too deep if you don't adjust your mindset from a small block motor. On street tires all you'll do is increase your trips to the tire store.

    My two cents.
     
  25. KrisKustomPaint
    Joined: Apr 20, 2007
    Posts: 1,107

    KrisKustomPaint
    Member

    Now correct me if I'm wrong but the ambulances and hearses used the 500 for a few years after '76, or did they just swap them in after the fact? I've seen a few 78 or 79 hearses with 500 motors in them.

    I've got a set of 950 heads for my '75 motor that ought to bring the power back up to a respectable level. I even got 'em for free!
     
  26. clarky1966
    Joined: Jan 29, 2010
    Posts: 97

    clarky1966
    Member

    This 429 thing is intriguing. How does that work? Is it a bolt up set up?
     
  27. billbrown
    Joined: Dec 24, 2007
    Posts: 595

    billbrown
    BANNED

    the 500 had a solid flywheel mount. the 472 had a "flower" pattern on the back of the crank. Thats how you can tell at the junk yard w/o having a pocket full of numbers.
     
  28. patrickk1
    Joined: May 12, 2008
    Posts: 10

    patrickk1
    Member

    Quoted from Cad Company

    "The Dyno says: A stock 10:1 (76cc head) 500 makes 323 HP 504 Ft-Lb of torque
    The Dyno says: A stock 8:1 (120cc head) 500 makes 302 HP 493 Ft-Lb of torque
    The Dyno says: A serious, professionally prepped, bracket style stroker can make well over 800 HP without a power adder, through ported iron heads."
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2010
  29. DMFB
    Joined: May 22, 2009
    Posts: 545

    DMFB
    Member

    One of the guys is correct. I work at a fab shop. I made a cad drawing of the 500 side, then a drawing of the 429 intake. We took a chunk of 1 inch aluminum and milled half of it for caddy, and half for the ford. We had to make a valley pan, and cut off the thermostat house from the tunnel ram. Little bit of work, but super cool results.
     
  30. OldSub
    Joined: Aug 27, 2003
    Posts: 1,064

    OldSub
    Member Emeritus

    I'm pretty sure you can order those adapters from MTS if you don't happen to have a CAD system and a CNC mill handy.
     

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