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5 on 5 1/2 disc kits for Ford?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by poboyross, Apr 8, 2012.

  1. poboyross
    Joined: Apr 29, 2009
    Posts: 2,142

    poboyross
    Member
    from West TN

    Do these even exist? All I can find are 5 on 4 1/2 and Im running 35 wires. I know they have adapters but that added to the disc bump out would likely push out the wheels 2".
     
  2. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,913

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

  3. tjm73
    Joined: Feb 17, 2006
    Posts: 3,386

    tjm73
    Member

    Speedway has a kit for the straight axle Fords til '48.
     
  4. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,913

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The trouble with that kit, when running wires, is that the caliper face overhangs the wheel mounting surface, and will hit the spokes (and many wheels), without a spacer.
     

  5. poboyross
    Joined: Apr 29, 2009
    Posts: 2,142

    poboyross
    Member
    from West TN

    Yeah, that's what I figured. If I push my front wheels out any further I think the track width will be wider than in the back.
     
  6. poboyross
    Joined: Apr 29, 2009
    Posts: 2,142

    poboyross
    Member
    from West TN

    Also, I have 42-48 drums/spindles/plates that just need to be refurbished, but here in LA traffic I thought that the discs would be safer, also thought about using the backing plates to cover the rotors, per a tech week here on the HAMB
     
  7. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,913

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I am planning on doing a setup like that soon. Found some beat-up juice backing plates that nobody wanted. Make sure to run scoops.

    SF Bay traffic ain't LA traffic, but it can get just as bad. I have burned the paint off of my drums in SF Bay traffic.

    The spacer you would need should not be huge, just enough to get the spokes away from the caliper.
     
  8. poboyross
    Joined: Apr 29, 2009
    Posts: 2,142

    poboyross
    Member
    from West TN

    Luckily I live close to work, but that only slightly limits my exposure to all the hoo-has that drive here. I might just sell my drums and shoes here and use that towards the discs. There's a fellah here in Burbank who will make the spacers. He made the ones for my 8" rear...can't remember his name though.
     
  9. poboyross
    Joined: Apr 29, 2009
    Posts: 2,142

    poboyross
    Member
    from West TN


    OH...I was at the in-law's Easter thang today, couldn't look at the original Speedway link from you,Gimpy. Looks cool....but I'm wondering how that would interfere with me using a steering hoop so I can do cowl steering?

    Here's the one I was looking at originally:

    http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Brake-Kit-1978-88-GM-Caliper-to-Early-Ford-Spindle-Ford-B-P,4575.html

    This is where I was thinking I'd need to get a big honkin' adapter, to go from 5 on 4.5 to 5 on 5.5 like I had to do on my 8" rear. Hmmmm...again, I have hoop concerns, that and I like the forged look of the kit I just linked to.....choices, ramifications, potential for epic fail!!! XP lol
     
  10. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,682

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    The spacer issue is worse than just total width. Moving your wheel out away from kingpin increases scrub radius (you can look that up) and causes steering problems, beginning but not ending with very hard steering.
    I would start off with the Ford brakes, putting some attention into arcing shoes to same circle as drum...simple but big issue to get full contact. Remember you are using the brakes on a car maybe 1500 pounds lighter than the brakes were made for. I think this will work fine, leaving only the lady in the Cadillac Subarbal El Deluxo coming up behind you at the red light at 60 texting with her cell phone as your hazard. No brakes can protect your rear.
     
  11. 41PICUP
    Joined: Dec 14, 2009
    Posts: 107

    41PICUP
    Member

    Have you checked with ECI ?
     
  12. poboyross
    Joined: Apr 29, 2009
    Posts: 2,142

    poboyross
    Member
    from West TN


    So with this scrub radius thing, I have no idea what the current radius is running a 36 drop axle (dropped to 5"), with 42-48 spindles. From what I was reading, weren't these cars originally running with neutral scrub radius? It didn't indicate they ran with either positive or negative scrub. Of the two, it said that positive scrub was preferrable. I dunno how much scrub would result in how far the wire wheel would be pushed out from both the rotor + the spacer
     
  13. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,682

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    Original is at least close to neutral. Hold up a wheel to a disc...you should be able to see how much air there is when the wheel can't get any closer. The cars I have seen like this have had prettydamnthick spacers. It seems at least possible that you could build a friendlier disc setup from some place like Speedway's race car catalog, buying disc and hub/hat separatel like an old Airheart...maybe some of the racecar stuff can be assembled on a smaller/deeper hub. You do not need massive capacity on a 2,000 pound rod...most of the kits are essentially Chevelle type stuff designed for 4,000 pound cars.
    I do believe that '48 Ford brkes would stop a little car like this fine...
     
  14. DICK SPADARO
    Joined: Jun 6, 2005
    Posts: 1,887

    DICK SPADARO
    Member Emeritus

    There is a disc brake kit offered by ECI that fits 5 x 5.5 early ford bolt pattern to early 37-48 spindles. The problem is that you should NOT run early ford wire wheels on disc brake conversions as the wheel is not supported correctly. Ford wire wheels rely on the exterior of the hub to be supported against the drum assembly during lateral loading (cornering) and the disc hubs are not large enough or the shape interferes with the hub registry. Running unsupported the wheel will develop cracks in the hub steel. Spacers are not the answer either as this increases the scrub radius wheel spacing as well as placing all the loads on the studs and the outer wheel bearing.. It is safest to run early Ford wire wheels with early Ford style brakes. If you want to run wires get new latemodel style wires or just stick to steel wheels.
     
  15. poboyross
    Joined: Apr 29, 2009
    Posts: 2,142

    poboyross
    Member
    from West TN


    Yeah, as much as I want to run discs (ease of use, replacement, no constant tweaking) looks like using the 42-48's is the only choice for also running the wires (which is a must for what I want the car to look like). I just hate the idea of spending ALL this cash on replacing damn near the entire guts and innerds for something that has to be constantly maintained from what I've read. Mine aren't the self-energizing ones (or bendix style) and I most definitely can't afford to get those spanky setups I see in the Speedway catalog for an arm and a leg. Let me get some pics of my drums and shoes and see if you guys think I can at least run what Ive got for putting around until I can afford new drums and shoes. I knew I was going to have to get new wheel cylinders and springs, at any rate.
     
  16. poboyross
    Joined: Apr 29, 2009
    Posts: 2,142

    poboyross
    Member
    from West TN

    Here's the outside of the drums:

    [​IMG]

    Inside of the drums:

    [​IMG]

    Shoes:

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Splinter
    Joined: May 14, 2005
    Posts: 1,112

    Splinter
    Member

    I was planning on the same setup, and was actually thinking about it while driving, when a "Soccer Mom" in a Volvo cut me off to slam on her brakes so she didn't miss the driveway for McDonald's. That was the quickest my my brain worked. Ever.
    Now I have Disc brakes on the front of my Rod, and don't give a Rat's tiny ass who doesn't approve.
     
  18. LEFTY_
    Joined: Mar 15, 2012
    Posts: 66

    LEFTY_
    Member
    from The 702

    hey man i called up C.H. topping (long beach) and talked to vinny he had some pretty informative stuff on running drums and how to make them work relatively well i guess there are vintage race classes that require them to use original equipment binders (drilled drums with a modern friction material) he also was very helpful told me to get the stuff on the car and tell him how it feels and he could size the wheel cylinders accordingly hope this helps
     
  19. I may be wrong; but I seem to remember that '35 wires don't work with the drums like yours that have the outside hubs. Maybe they hit the balance weights or something like that.
     
  20. Shaggy
    Joined: Mar 6, 2003
    Posts: 5,208

    Shaggy
    Member
    from Sultan, WA

    f-1's are cheap and practically a bolt on.....
     
  21. poboyross
    Joined: Apr 29, 2009
    Posts: 2,142

    poboyross
    Member
    from West TN

    Bump for the evening crowd....any opinions on if I can even use those drums/shoes?
     
  22. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,682

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    Get drums measured for ID...you do not want any metal turned out. Shoes...if keeping old ones, put into drum and see if curvature is a good fit, if new ones they need to be arced to drum or ground a bit by hand if not a perfect fit. If arc is wrong, you can only use a fraction of your surface area. Get kits for cylinders, be sure you don't lose the shoe hold down clips($), replace any springs that are badly pitted.
    Learnb to adjust...I think you said these are '46-8 type with single adjust on each shoe, basic setting is as close as you can gettem.
     
  23. poboyross
    Joined: Apr 29, 2009
    Posts: 2,142

    poboyross
    Member
    from West TN

    Thanks for the info! I took the drums to a local guy, one was 12.085, the other was 12.060. Read that they can go as high as 12.120...but 12.080 is preferred max. I think for now I will run them and see how it goes.

    I put all the shoes into the drums and they seem to have a really close match to the curvature of the drum, we'll see once I get them back. Looks like someone didn't have them adjusted right and wore the bottoms down real quick, leaving the rest untouched. Maybe with correct adjustment they'll do me for awhile.

    I think I'll have to buy new wheel cylinders, as these were frozen up. I got them opened up by soaking in PBlaster, then knocking the piston out. The pistons did not survive, and there was some surface corrosion on the inside of the cylinders. I lightly honed them, but I'm still concerned that it compromised them further. 40 bucks each isn't much to pay, I don't think.
     
  24. poboyross
    Joined: Apr 29, 2009
    Posts: 2,142

    poboyross
    Member
    from West TN

    Got the drums turned, still about the same diameters. I think they'll work for now....hopefully. They also RANDOMLY had the wheel cylinders I needed IN STOCK. Dorman replacements, except they're the same 1 3/8 x 1 that the other guys sell. Burbank Auto Parts if anyone is ever interested, really nice guys. They went through 3 catalogs tracking the part number changes for those cylinders till they found it.
     
  25. Pete and Jakes has a setup that will clear your spokes.
     
  26. cartman4gc
    Joined: Jul 25, 2011
    Posts: 88

    cartman4gc
    Member

    48-64 F-1 or F-100 bendix type self energizing brakes will stop the hell out of a rod, and the F-100 brakes are self adjusting. cheap and good, and drums, shoes, cylinders, and hardware are available from Carquest or Napa. Speedway has a bearing kit to adapt to early spindles. I ran em on my 40 pickup for years, and now on my 27 roadster. And 5 on 5-1/2 pattern.
     
  27. This is true however you can not mount Ford wire wheels on F1 drums.
    I have a set of powder coated rims that will not fit and i will not run adapters.
     

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