Projects 49 Prefect - "Altered" Style Build

Sorry, poor wording... I was actually asking what folks thought about the stance. (edited) however to answer your question, Yes the Scout is very stable through the lights but it has the aerodynamics of a brick and the speed at the top end reflects that.

We are really liking the way the Prefect is coming together and really prefer the lower stance. We also think the Prefect will be lighter and have more power than the Scout with less parasitic loss in the drivetrain. By our calculation we might scare the 9's on a good day and to be honest we don't want to go that fast. The demand for SFI stuff gets costly way too fast and niether of us have a competition license. We will be very happy running low to mid 10's.

With a low stance, center steer and hilborn small block this thing is going to be very cool !! Maybe we'll start taking match race bookings... Best 2 outta 3 vs. the Scout ??

 

Lovin the way it sits. gassers are cool for sure, but i do like a low car, and Prefects are very cool low cars. Glad to see youre keeping the ' seriously ugly Prefect sheet metal. Gives it character in a red headed step child sort of way.' Perfectly put.

 

Well as you can tell from my avatar I'm a fan of higher, but your Prefect is great either way!

 

It's been far too long between updates but the truth be told... we have been neglecting the ugly little beast for the last few months. Well... we're back at it. Mostly trimming ugly stuff off and fixing rust on the center posts but we have also been designing the center steer seat position and the roll cage.

Big problem with center steer. The rule book states if the driveshaft runs under any part of the driver... it needs to be fully enclosed in 1/8" steel.

Since this is really a period statement and for our own shits and giggles, we went over kill. The floor pan mounted between the frame rails is damn near battleship caliber at 3/16" but it gives us a solid foundation to mount the seat and belts, some really good frame structure and some extra protection in case the driveshaft decides to try and mate with one of us while driving. The plan is to build the 1/8" tunnel under this plate. Obviously it will have to be removable and notched to allow the locator bar to travel inside it. If done right, the mounting bolts will double as seat mounts. It's going to be a bit heavy but the wieght is where we want it, down the middle and low.

That's my brother Paul doing the required "Vroom Vroom" session and showing off the really big "escape hatch". The distinguished guy in the window is our friend Larry. (Top dragster and 10 second off topic Mustang)

We're going with a funnycar style cage and have started bending the bars for it. There will be a perimeter bar that runs from the frame - around the driver - and back to the frame. The overhead bars will be squared off rather than tapered simply because it's easier to bend them that way and we have limited skill on the bender. In the end it should look a lot like an old school funny car with a square style perimeter cage. (Pictures of the cage coming soon)

 

Good to see you're back at it. I believe that the rule book states there must be at least one "vroom vroom" session during assembly, looks like you got it covered.

 

Here's the start of the cage. As I mentioned, we're going wide and without a taper. Just trying to stay within our talent range. Besides, both my brother and I have wide shoulders and not that young any more so the wider the better (Easier to get in and out). We'll move the center bars closer and the lower bars will be angled outward to the framerails for more strength. We'll also triangulate the side bars along the shoulder hoop. This might be a bit of overkill especially for a car that might, on a good day, see the high side of the 9 second range... but we think it's cool. And that's what counts.

The seat isn't mounted in the picture but it will be moved back and reclined quite a bit. We'll mount a headrest off of the back bars.

We've also bent up the front bar and tacked it in but it looks goofy without the other bars. Once we have it a bit farther along I'll post more pics

(Edit:... Just got caught up on Littleman's 333 Half-Evil roadster project and suddenly feel really embarrased about our hack job level talent... Dammit Dave !!! )

 

that's way cool....keep posting pictures

 

I like every part of your build. I see a small problem though. If you attend some races and try to enter as a gasser some of the rule makers might balk at the center steer. Keep posting...it's cool

 

Thanks man...

The "not a gasser" issue is not a problem for us at all... we are very aware that the center steer set up eliminates the "Gasser" concept and it is better defined as an Altered or Comp Coupe. We're from Winnipeg Canada and that puts us far enough north that we are pretty much out of the loop for the gasser meets. (Which really sucks!!) As we've said all along, we're building this to have fun, entertain the troops and match race the Scout. The fact that it's different is an added bonus and what attracted us to it in the first place.

We'll be attending the Meltdown 2013 event and with any luck we'll have the Prefect running by then. It's already pre-registered and they'll have no issues letting it run in one class or another. That's cool. Besides... if I want to compete with the gasser folks, I'll run the Scout.

Thanks for support kids... more coming

 

Like the sound of what you are doing on this. I had one 40 years ago as my 1st car, it was 23 years old and i was 14.They were every where back then.Good luck with the build. JW

 

I like your attitude! Building it to be safe and have fun is more important than what class it will run!

 

This should give y'all a better idea of what we are trying to do.

We got the front hoop and the bars between the hoops tacked in and re-did the rear supports. We also tacked in the side supports to the frame. We'll add in 2 more at the back to support the rear of the cage and we'll triangulate the side supports. We'll also add in some halo bars. Serious overkill for a door car that will likely be kept in the low 10's but we like how it's all coming together.

Not too bad for a couple of hacks.

 

Nice work I like it.

 

When you build race cars like we do...it's not an official project until you set yourself on fire... Well... today, I made it official.

Grinding on a bench vise. Couldn't figure out why my wrist was burning. Looked down and saw the flames off of my sweatshirt licking up right where my wrist was held tight against my side. If I had not been leaning forward I would have burned through my shirt. Now that would have sucked.

As dumb as this is... this little ritual somehow makes everything about the build...good.

 

Short day to work on the Prefect as we had to dig ourselves out of a blizzard this morning, no big deal when you live where we live. After moving a ton or so of snow at home and then again at the shop (Thank God for snowblowers) we managed to get a little more done on the cage.

Rear supports are tacked in as is the cross bar that will double as our mounting point for the shoulder harness. We also got the side bars tacked in. All we need to do is understand the requirement for the helmet bars (in a door car) and put them in if necessary.

We also got started on the steering. I'll have pictures when it's a little farther along.

 

Any guess at what this thing is going to weigh when it is done? What wheelbase is it? If you mentioned it, I missed it.

It would be very cool if you could bring both of these to the Meltdown. If I get my wheels lined up (Looks like I will) I have that deal penciled in on my calendar as of right now..

 

Get those tires lined up son... the Bad Banana BELONGS at the Meltdown. As I've said before, the Meltdown 2012 event was the best automotive event I have ever attended. Last year we made plans to come back 5 minutes after we left and might have been one of the first to pre-register for 2013. Right now the plan is to have both cars there even if the Prefect has to be a static display. We'll try our best to have it running.

We are not building it to meet any specific class and since this is a budget build for us, we are trying to use whatever we have at the shop as often as possible. Therefore we haven't been too concerned about keeping it anorexic light. This becomes obvious as you inventory the materials we are using. Mild steel cage, battleship rated seat tub, steel floor pans, iron headed sbc... etc

The wheelbase will be around stock which is 94 inches. As for wieght we have no real clue and not targetting anything specific. If we compare it to the Scout build then we can make a reasonable guesstimate

The Scout is no lightwieght with an all steel body and stock frame rails, T-400 and a Dana 60. It comes in around 2900 loaded w 200+ driver (And the new blower motor).

The Prefect has a smaller lighter frame, lighter body, lighter drivetrain (Injected vs Blower, Powerglide vs, T-400, Alloy center 9" vs. Dana 60) lighter brakes and about the same amount of material for the cage. Even the rear tires and cooling system will be marginally lighter on the Prefect.

The driveshaft tunnel and seat plate will add significant wieght (40 lbs ??) but it will be located where we want it. (Low / middle). We are using Mild steel vs. Chrome moly for the cage so whatever the weight difference would be for the same amount of material.

Having said all that, best guess would be, the Prefect will come in around 2600 loaded w the same short fat old driver. This thing appears to have 9 second capability but we would be very happy to keep it in the low 10's so heavy(er) is ok with us as long as it's safe.


Cheers

 

Wow... that's lighter than I thought it was. Or are you talking in that funny metric lingo you guys tend to use north of the border???

I will probably be close to 3300 lbs leaving the line this year with the 4 steel wheels, heavier front tires, and a driver that keeps adding pounds to his ass.

Hope to see ya there.

 

You got my attention, looks interesting.

 

Saxon I can't wait to see the new toy.
Bad banana you will not regret making the trip to the "MELTDOWN DRAGS".

 

We've been banging away on the prefect but it's not in any state to share any pictures at the moment.

We started to mock up the steering and we are trying to figure out the best place to put it while at the same time keeping in mind that the primary drivers are a couple of broken 50 something guys who don't bend and twist very well anymore.

We have added in some of the flooring. We decided the outside panels from the the frame rails to the body needed to be beefy so we've gone with some heavy gauge steel. It's overkill and adds even more weight but I support the idea since it will add some integrity to the body as well as give us somewhere to step trying to get in / out. It also eliminates the need for a framework for support under a thinner floor material.

Rather than building wheel tubs, we've decided to build a bulkhead dividing the driving area from the back of the car. We'll have to see what plays out for tire shielding in the back but for now we're not too concerned about it as long as the driving area is sealed and seperated. So far, the interior build is starting to look like an old school funny which we think is very cool

Here are some pics of the fun stuff we received a while back and pulled out this weekend. An old school style mechanical tach as well as a priming system for the fuel injection and a Phasing unit for the magneto we'll be running

 

Still banging away on the Ugly Beast.

We started to put in actual tubs but we hated it and tore it all out. With my limited sheetmetal skills I somehow managed to cobble together the rear bulkheads and wheel "tubs". We'll fill in the backside as well. The rear of the car will be open to the elements with only a battery box / battery in the back. Not sure what we'll do about shielding for the flying rubber in the trunk area...maybe nothing...just have to make it up as we go along.

For now it's all held together with poor man Kleco fasteners...that would be sheetmetal screws to you well equiped folks... once the cage is all welded in we'll go back and rivot the whole shoot'n match together.

In the meantime, my brother is piecing together the floor pans and tranny cover. The side pic gives a good idea of the pedal placement.

When you're learning as you go it tends to be a do and re-do kind of thing. Somehow, no matter how hard you try it still looks like a hack job. Thank god for carpet and paint.

Sorry for the shitty Blackberry pics... It was all I had at the time

 

Looks great to me! I miss building a car! Wife has me rebuilding/remodeling the house, and my new gasser project is sitting, gathering dust!

 

We pulled the cage out for final welding. Pretty easy to do with a 26" wide cage and a big hole in the roof and 4 doors to duck in and out of. 3 guys, a little patience and it's on the welding table. We're adding the helmet bars while it's out.

With the cage out it gives us the chance to finish mocking up the tin work. The pile of rework isn't too large so obviously we're getting a little better at it... or our standards are dropping. One or the other... The battery tray has been fabbed and tacked in between the rear frame rails and we're currently working on the rear part of the wheel enclosures. Just keeping it simple and following logical contours. Nothing fancy.

Our remote fuel pump drive has arrived and we dropped it off at the engine shop. We also replaced the fuel lines on the hilborn intake as the current ones are cracked. Nothing like a quick $500 for some brackets, spacers, 8 hoses and a belt. (Ouch!). But, that should be the final pieces for the motor. There is some talk about getting a local sprint car guru to help us set it up on the dyno but nothing confirmed. We got the set up from AlkyDigger a few years back and it was already set up for alcohol so we probably wouldn't be too far off running it as it came for a baseline.

Just before the cage goes back in we'll start to replace the sheet metal screws with rivots for the areas that will be tough to get at once the cage is in the way. We'll also start sealing everything up and then turn our attention back to the steering and the placement for the fuel cell and radiator ... and mount the seat, the shifter, the pedals, run brake lines, wire it up, fab a panhard bar, mount the driveshaft tunnel, mount the lexan (yellow of course) ... Sooo much more to do...

Sure having fun though !!

 

I totally get it, i have lit myself on fire twice now, the last one was really bad, because i didnt know i was on fire and Mike couldnt stop laughing when i figured it out. (Im sure i was doing a pretty funny fire dance lol)

 

I was welding with a chamois shirt on once, and the whole thing caught fire, but just that surface fuzz. I kept wondering why the shirt was so warm, and when I stopped and took the hood off it looked like the surface of the shirt was a catylitic heater!

 

Saxxon;
I'll be watching this build ,as I also have a 1950 Prefect project in the wings..Good luck and keep us up to speed.
Hopefully we will see you again at the meltdown 2013.

Rick
(1939fiat)
-----------------------------------------------------------

 

Sheetmetal work... doesn't suck too bad if you have the right tools. And talent... Tools we have... talent...not so much.

We spent the day riveting the rear bulkhead together but can't do the whole thing until we put the cage back in. I also spent some time closing up the trunk and welding in the battery box. So far it looks...acceptable. Nothing show worthy and the rivots aren't in perfectly straight lines but a lot of that will be covered by the paint and it is turning out a lot better than most folks thought it would.

The whole shoot'n match is steel and needs to be cleaned and painted so sorry for the rusty spots. Oh by the way...when installing a couple of hundred rivets, an air gun quickly becomes the best tool ever made especially for my pastry soft computer hands.

Once the cage is in we can put in the front wheel tub panels and stop fiddling with the back of the car

 

We are really looking forward to the 2013 event and hope to see you there (and more than a few others). We are really hoping to have 2 running cars there this year. At the very least we'll have the Scout matching racing again and the Prefect as a static display but we're banging hard on the ugly beast to have it running.

 

Drill, rivet, drill, rivet, drill, rivet...someone please make it stop !!