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49 Ford Coupe VIN and Title Questions

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Shawn F., Dec 7, 2011.

  1. Shawn F.
    Joined: Mar 14, 2005
    Posts: 590

    Shawn F.
    Member

    I recently purchased a 49 Ford Coupe from an owner in SC with an SC title and need to transfer it to my name with an NC title. There are no inspections on vehicles here 35 years old or older but was told an inspector will have to come out to transfer the title to an NC one and inspect the car to match the VIN on the title with the body and chassis. My problem is there is no VIN plate and only a 9 digit serial number on the body. The chassis has a MII up front and not the stock front frame rails either.
    Does anyone know if there was such a thing as having a VIN plate on a 49 Ford? I thought they didnt start using VIN plates until 51 and used the engine block number as the VIN. I of course do not have the original engine so not sure what to do here.

    Thanks for any info and sorry if I rambled on here...
     
  2. big creep
    Joined: Feb 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,945

    big creep
    Member

    should be on the fire wall closer to the pass, side.
     
  3. the-rodster
    Joined: Jul 2, 2003
    Posts: 6,722

    the-rodster
    Member

    There is no VIN.

    Originally, the car would have been titled to either the body serial number, on a tag on the passenger side of the firewall, or by the engine serial number.

    Rich
     
  4. Shookie
    Joined: Jul 28, 2009
    Posts: 51

    Shookie
    Member

    We now have a similar problem in the state of Illinois. The state no longer accepts the engine # or any mounted plate like one mounted on the firewall.
    The title # must match the # that is stamped on the left side front on the frame. Yes, this might mean that the body must be lifted from the frame for the Illinois inspector to view.:mad:

    Applies to a Ford Model A 1928 thru 1931
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2011

  5. woodienut
    Joined: Feb 17, 2009
    Posts: 349

    woodienut
    Member
    from So.Cal.

    My early '50 Woodie (built Dec. '49) had a vin tag on the firewall, Pass. side.
    It's been awhile, but I don't think the engine number matched. It was a one owner with original engine.
    I hope this helps.
     
  6. Shawn F.
    Joined: Mar 14, 2005
    Posts: 590

    Shawn F.
    Member

    Since there is no inspection in NC on a vehicle that is 35 years old or older doesnt that mean I just turn the title into the DMV, get my insurance and tag and just go? Also can anyone confirm that a 49 Ford has a VIN plate on the passenger side or not for sure? All I have is a 9 digit serial number on the drivers side firewall/cowl. If I have to I am sure I can borrow a friends die kit and hammer in my own numbers/letters but I am hoping I do not have to do that. The number on the fire wall does NOT match the 10 digit VIN on the title. There are no numbers on the car that match the VIN on the title and there is no VIN plate.
     
  7. Shawn F.
    Joined: Mar 14, 2005
    Posts: 590

    Shawn F.
    Member

    If there is a VIN plate on the passenger side firewall can someone take a picture of it please so I can try to have one made and rivet it on?
    Thanks again!
     
  8. big creep
    Joined: Feb 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,945

    big creep
    Member

    shoeboxford.com has them for sale, so does mac antique auto.
     
  9. Chopp'd49
    Joined: Feb 20, 2011
    Posts: 153

    Chopp'd49
    Member

    My vin plate is mounted to the firewall but out close to the fender past the heater hole and past the body mount piece. I'll try to get a picture of it tomorrow
     
  10. Shawn F.
    Joined: Mar 14, 2005
    Posts: 590

    Shawn F.
    Member

    Thanks Chopp'd49! I need to try and get this problem squared away by this weekend the LATEST. I now need to figure out if the car needs to get inspected by an inspector from the DMV before getting plates put on it or if I just bring in the SC title signed over to me into my local DMV and that's it...
     
  11. big creep
    Joined: Feb 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,945

    big creep
    Member

    do you have a green bible, ford service manual? it will show you where it is in the book, or look it up google is your friend!
     
  12. Shawn F.
    Joined: Mar 14, 2005
    Posts: 590

    Shawn F.
    Member

    big creep I do not. I did look up on Google but could not find a clear or close enough picture. I will keep searching. Either way if the car is supposed to have one then my next issue is finding/buying a plate and having it stamped.
     
  13. BJR
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 6,804

    BJR
    Member

    If the title does not match any numbers on the car, what makes you think it's the correct title for that car? For all you know you could of bought a stolen car with a title from a rusted out junker.
     
  14. bigdav160
    Joined: May 5, 2007
    Posts: 153

    bigdav160
    Member

    I don't think '49 had the firewall serial number. I know my '50 does. I have modified front frame rails also but have found a duplicate serial number on the frame. It's on the top of the rear crossmember on the right side.
     
  15. Shawn F.
    Joined: Mar 14, 2005
    Posts: 590

    Shawn F.
    Member

    BJR, the car is from a good friend. He has had the car since 81, his name is on the title as well of course. He said the vin must have been taken off when the firewall was painted.
     
  16. the-rodster
    Joined: Jul 2, 2003
    Posts: 6,722

    the-rodster
    Member

    Notice the serial number plate on the passenger side of the firewall.

    This is a stock 49 Ford Sedan.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. the-rodster
    Joined: Jul 2, 2003
    Posts: 6,722

    the-rodster
    Member

    I just took mine off last week, to strip the firewall.

    I will be replacing it with a new one, it's kinda beat up.

    I don't know what part of NC you're from, but Dennis Carpenter in Charlotte should have these serial number plates in stock.

    Pick me one up too :)

    Rich
     
  18. Shawn F.
    Joined: Mar 14, 2005
    Posts: 590

    Shawn F.
    Member

    the-rodster, does that serial plate have the VIN number printed on it or the Serial Number? I may head to Dennis Carpenter today or tomorrow. If I do, would you like me to pick you one up and mail it to you in an envelope?
     
  19. BJR
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 6,804

    BJR
    Member

    I was playing devils advocate, and asking the question that the DMV will ask you. I would look on the top of the rear crossmember as mentioned in a previous post, and see if you can find a number and see if that number matches your title. I used a mirror on my 49 Buick frame to find a number that was on top of a rear frame rail. That way if your new vin plate is questioned by the DMV, you have a factory frame number to fall back on for proof. With all the stolen cars around, (some stolen in the 60's) the DMV's have gotten very tough on vins matching paperwork and vins on the firewall looking "too new". Even insurance company's can refuse to pay a claim if your vin doesn't match the title, or is missing completly, should there ever be a claim.
     
  20. the-rodster
    Joined: Jul 2, 2003
    Posts: 6,722

    the-rodster
    Member

    It's the body serial number.

    There is no vin.

    I was just kidding about picking me up a plate, but thanks!

    Buy the plate, get the numbers from your title engraved on it, rivet it to the firewall, and call it a day.

    Rich
     
  21. Shawn F.
    Joined: Mar 14, 2005
    Posts: 590

    Shawn F.
    Member

    As for plate looking too new, that can be fixed with a little scotch brite and overspray. :)
     
  22. frisco
    Joined: Feb 7, 2006
    Posts: 66

    frisco
    Member
    from Canton, NC

    Starting about three or four years ago, ALL vehicles from out of state were required to be inspected by the License & Theft Bureau before a new North Carolina title was issued.

    You can take the South Carolina title to the NC tag office and they will give you a registration and tag BUT the title will not be issued until AFTER the inspection.

    The inspector KNOWS where any serial numbers and/or VIN numbers are located. He/she will also take photos of the vehicle and the numbers and will file a report immediately via computer in their vehicle. If all goes well, a new title will be issued in a few weeks. If the inspector feels that something else is required they will inform you.

    The tag pictured in the posts above are more than likely just the patent number tag and have nothing to do with the serial number or VIN.

    Your Ford was originally registered using the engine number as the serial number. The serial number system was used by many manufacturers before the federally mandated VIN was required.

    Because the engine number was the serial number used for registration, most (if not all) states required that when an engine swap was done that the owner was supposed to fill out a new form to get the new engine serial number listed on the registration (title). This was rarely done and has resulted in many older vehicles with no correct matching serial number to the registration.

    The NC state inspectors are aware of this and can help you get the registration done correctly.

    Do NOT stamp your own numbers. Do NOT make a plate to install on the firewall or frame. You may end up having North Carolina issue you new numbers to be stamped on the frame and then inspected by the state inspector. You may also have to purchase a bond before a title will be issued.
     
  23. the-rodster
    Joined: Jul 2, 2003
    Posts: 6,722

    the-rodster
    Member

    It contains the body serial number, and I would guess that the majority of shoebox fords are using this number for title registration. It contains the Model Code, either OHA for a 6 cyl or OBA for an 8 cyl. followed by the assembly plant code and that is followed by the unit production number.

    Way more descriptive of the car than the engine serial number, IMHO.


    States differ, just as many used the body serial number


    Blah, blah, blah.

    Get a new tag.

    Rich
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2011
  24. Shawn F.
    Joined: Mar 14, 2005
    Posts: 590

    Shawn F.
    Member

    Frisco thanks a lot for the info!
    Also I looked in the doors and on passenger side of firewall/cowl. Nothing there. I can see where a plate was but not there anymore... I am lost on what to do and also still confused. I have some people telling me there is no VIN plate and that is a serial number plate only (9 digits). The VIN number on my title is not the same as the serial number on the chassis/driver side firewall (which is stamped straight into the firewall). From what I was told is that the VIN is on the original engine only and then the rest of the numbers are the serial numbers which are different than the VIN shown on my title.
    Is this true and can anyone confirm that their plate number is different than the VIN number on the title?
    Sorry for all of the questions here, I am just trying to get this squared away ASAP!
     
  25. the-rodster
    Joined: Jul 2, 2003
    Posts: 6,722

    the-rodster
    Member

    I would be willing to bet that your title contains the body serial number that was removed from the firewall when the car was painted.

    You can "fix' this anyway you like, but I would just replace the damn tag.

    Rich
     
  26. When you get tired of reading opinions, call Chris as Shoeboxford.com (1-800-732-6029). There is a good reason why people deal with shoeboxford exclusively for parts. Ray (senior partner) has worked on them since Henry first sold them new and Chris is the most knowledgable parts man under 50 years old that I have ever met. I walked in one day and gave him a poor description of a clamp I found in my parts bin and he walked over to a car they had on the lift and showed me the clamp on the floor pan that holds the speedo and e-brake cables. Yep, exact match. All they deal in is '49-51 Fords there.

    If you want fact call them, if opinions work keep typing away on here.
     
  27. the-rodster
    Joined: Jul 2, 2003
    Posts: 6,722

    the-rodster
    Member


    Yep, when I want title advice, I always call the parts guy.

    EVERYTHING I have said on this thread IS fact.

    Don't trust my advice? Do an advanced search with "shoebox vin" in the title.

    Rich
     
  28. Chopp'd49
    Joined: Feb 20, 2011
    Posts: 153

    Chopp'd49
    Member

    I agree with Rich - buy a tag and have a trophy shop engrave it. Be sure you buy the right rivets when you buy the plate. Here is a shot of my tag. It is inside the right fenderwell area mounted on the firewall. Looks like Ford was inconsistent in where they placed them. I believe it is the body number, but mine matches the serial number on the title.
     

    Attached Files:

  29. Buddy Palumbo
    Joined: Mar 30, 2008
    Posts: 3,870

    Buddy Palumbo
    Member

    My 49 Coupe has a serial# tag mounted on the passenger side of the firewall , between the hood hinge & the fresh air duct - you kinda have to lean in & look for it , but it's there . It's at the same spot as in Chopp'd49 49's pic .


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2011
  30. frisco
    Joined: Feb 7, 2006
    Posts: 66

    frisco
    Member
    from Canton, NC

    My comments above are from my own personal experience when registering a 1931 Ford Roadster in 2010. The roadster had papers from New Hampshire and I was registering it and applying for a title here in North Carolina.

    I had the same experience when applying for a North Carolina title for a custom motorcyle in 2009. All I had to start with was MSO's for the engine, frame and trans and a pile of receipts for everything else.

    Once again, when applying for a North Carolina title for a 1930 Ford Coupe with New York state registration papers. This one was done before the current regulations and I only had to provide a 'rubbing' of the serial number.

    You can make your own plate and screw it on or rivet it on, BUT, be prepared to have your vehicle impounded and you in major trouble. That is a felony in all states unless it was previously authorized by the state using state issued numbers.

    Do it right. Have the inspector come out and check what you have. He/she will be able to tell you what is required to get a title legally. As I previously posted, North Carolina may issue you a set of state numbers and have you stamp them on the frame. They will then inspect the stamping to see that you have done that procedure correctly.

    By the way, the state is doing their inspection as the result of many vehicles being built as 'kit' cars and then attempting to register them using purchased 'historical' documents . This apparently was being done to get around the newer safety requirements (dual power operated windshield wipers, dual tail and brake lights, directional signals, etc) and the smog rules.

    Your vehicle should only be required to have the same safety equiptment that it originally came with from the factory. Dual wipers, two headlights (Hi &LO beams with a high beam indicator) front parking light, two rear tailights & brake lights, directionals (front & rear). Because the vehicle is over 35 years old it does not need to be safety inspected. The License and Theft Bureau is only concerned about the serial number (VIN for later models) and surprisingly the odometer (although they don't care whether it functions or not it just must be there).
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2011

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