Register now to get rid of these ads!

'48-'52 F1 Hot Rod Planning

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Starboard, Jun 4, 2012.

  1. Starboard
    Joined: May 26, 2012
    Posts: 14

    Starboard
    Member

    Okay, so I'm going to try to lay this out and see what you guys think.

    My goal is to take a first generation F1, (preferably 48-50, but I wouldn't mind 51 or 52 depending on what's available), and to turn it into a daily driver/hot rod. I've seen a number of these throughout the years and the lines of the body are just so cool. That being said I want some modern features when it comes to electrical system.

    I am totally in the planning stages and want to make sure that I have a solid working plan as this project grows in order to prevent unnecessary expenditures and budget pitfalls. There is a local body/rod shop that is going to help me out with some of the more complicated things/when I get fed up with things, but for the most part I will be doing this myself with a few friends on the weekends. I fully plan to make a build thread and post tons of pictures.

    Goals:

    -Top Priority is to keep everything as Ford as possible. Please don't tell me about s10 body swaps, SBC's etc.

    -That being said, goal #2 is to put a big old engine in it. My current daily driver is a lexus LS 430, which is a v8 with right around 300 HP. If I can fit a 460 into it, I would consider it. Regardless, I will probably be turbo'ing the engine in the long run, so that is another consideration in selecting it.

    -Obviously, I'd also need to fit a transmission to handle all of this power. I don't mind a manual transmission if it's modern and comfortable w/ syncromesh, but can handle big power output coming off the engine. Otherwise, I'd probably just go automatic so that I don't break something once a month.

    -Suspension, I think a new IFS is probably a must if for no other reason than to handle the weight of a bigger engine. I know that the Mustang II is popular, but is that the best thing to go with?

    -Chassis, while we're talking about the suspension, does it make sense to stick with the original chassis when rodding out an early generation F-series? I saw one guy did a body swap onto a 2nd Generation Ford explorer chassis and managed to keep the v8 5 ltr engine and it was mechanical AWD to boot. At the end of the day, I want it to be comfortable to drive, not just to race, and preferably, it'd drive like a newer car. I think that the explorer chassis is a neat idea, but I am just not sure if that's the way to go, so I'd like opinions here.

    -Disc brakes, another feature that you'd get with the chassis swap, but would probably want to upgrade from the factory disc brakes eventually even if I went that direction.

    -Power Steering, not a must, but would be very nice to have.

    -Upgraded Electrical system, this is a must.

    -Heat and A/C of some sort, climate control would be cool, but would also obviously take up some extra room.

    -Some sort of custom audio, but that's all finishing stuff for after the fact.

    -3" headers and dual exhaust of some sort, whether it's something custom or something more bolt on.

    Main goal, to have a truck that looks old, sounds mean, drives well, has good speed and acceleration, but ultimately that is comfortable as a daily driver.
     
  2. fordf1trucknut
    Joined: Feb 13, 2007
    Posts: 1,115

    fordf1trucknut
    Member

    I run an f-1 daily that I built for mileage and made 4x4 and it is a great daily driver...it has stock suspension and steering with homebuilt axles and a more modern I-6 getting around 22 MPG

    [​IMG]

    I also have another one that I used to run daily before I built my current...it is more in line of what you are wanting.

    I went with a 393W stroker motor and a built c4 with an N-case rear 9" the brakes are still all stock drum with a newer dual reservoir master cylinder. And the suspension is stock.

    [​IMG]
    (it is currently all torn apart... I am painting it shiney...it has been semi-gloss now for 8 years...time to make it look nice)

    Most people who rind in my truck comment on how well it rides and are always amazed that it is stock...so don't dismiss rebuilding the stock suspension and steering...if you run aluminum heads and intake on a 460 it probally weighs less then the stock flathead v8 or flathead 6.

    The one with the stroker has a 0-60 of a tad over 5 seconds but is comfortable to run in even on long trips. it gets Ok mileage on the highway (16 mpg or so) BUT sucks down gas around town with the stall converter.

    Good luck and have fun.... I will never be without an f-1....they are GREAT trucks.
     
  3. 8flat
    Joined: Apr 2, 2006
    Posts: 1,376

    8flat
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Keep the frame. Weld in a good quality IFS with power rack, it'll be fine with the weight. Ford 8.8" exploder rear end is a strong, cheap, easy swap (and lots of gear choices, some with posi, great rear disc and easy to connect parking brake setup). Power brake upgrade kit (comes with corvette booster and MC).

    I did all of the above to mine and love it. The 4-wheel disc brakes are nice. From the outside you can't tell that I changed anything, and inside the cab it looks bone stock. I kept the flathead because of an unhealthy love affair with them, but if I were you and wanted a daily I'd bolt in a 5 liter and a T5 out of a jeep or S-10 (so the shifter isn't so far back) but upgrade it to world-class specs to handle the future HP.
     
  4. Starboard
    Joined: May 26, 2012
    Posts: 14

    Starboard
    Member

    [​IMG]
    (it is currently all torn apart... I am painting it shiney...it has been semi-gloss now for 8 years...time to make it look nice)

    Most people who rind in my truck comment on how well it rides and are always amazed that it is stock...so don't dismiss rebuilding the stock suspension and steering...if you run aluminum heads and intake on a 460 it probally weighs less then the stock flathead v8 or flathead 6.

    The one with the stroker has a 0-60 of a tad over 5 seconds but is comfortable to run in even on long trips. it gets Ok mileage on the highway (16 mpg or so) BUT sucks down gas around town with the stall converter.

    Good luck and have fun.... I will never be without an f-1....they are GREAT trucks.[/QUOTE]

    This is definitely more in line with my goals than your first truck. Good to know that the stock flatheads were so heavy, I will keep that in mind. The general consensus appears to be that the Mustang II IFS is the way to go as far as aftermarket modifications because they're easier to install than the Jag ones.

    I don't necessarily need what will be easiest, but I certainly want what will be best at the end of the day. I don't want to look back in 5 years at my suspension and think, if only I knew then what I know now. Hence this thread. Thanks for the advice, I will keep everyone posted.
     

  5. Starboard
    Joined: May 26, 2012
    Posts: 14

    Starboard
    Member

    Good to know re: the easy swapability of the explorer rear end. Strong and cheap are my middle names. Do you have a link to the upgrade kit you're talking about? I'm in the process of collecting literally a list of everything I might possibly want to do and when it comes time to actually budget and plan the build, I will come back to it and select from the options.

    As far as the engine, that's my plan, just pop it in with a nice turbo, extra power without killing my mileage any more than I need to. That being said, I want to keep it ford as much as possible, so I'll skip the S10 and Jeep engines. Thanks for the advice, feel free to share any additional thoughts you have. Everyone here seems really supportive when it comes to rehabbing a car back from the dead.
     
  6. 8flat
    Joined: Apr 2, 2006
    Posts: 1,376

    8flat
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    That came out wrong, I meant a Ford 5 liter engine, but use the T-5 tranny from a jeep or an S-10 because of proper shifter location. If you use a car tranny, the shifter will be way too far back. Don't worry about it coming out of a jeep, Borg-Warner makes the T-5 and all the big 3 use it, that's what Ford used in the mustangs. Very good tranny.

    Not sure on the power brake kit, I bought mine so long ago I can't remember who made it.
     
  7. Shane Spencer
    Joined: Oct 3, 2009
    Posts: 2,159

    Shane Spencer
    Member

    choose whatever mill you would like, i would personally look at the tremec t56 6 speed to back it. search hard, theres deals to be found on the t56. much more balls than a t5, you get that extra gear and it will handle the 460 no prob. and did i mention you get the extra gear :D. theres tons of info online on adapting t56 to 460 etc etc. theres tons of aftermarket brake setups available, piecing together your own setup shouldnt be too hard either. many small heaters are decently priced, the mojave seems to be a favorite on here from what ive read. a/c i have no idea... i dont like it lol. rebel wire is an awesome place to go for a new harness. bought one for my 54 ford customline. made in usa and supports a hamber, every wire is also labeled every 6 inches. check out brockman mellowtones for glasspacks. sound bitchin and cheappp. also tons of options on how they can build your glasspacks.
     
  8. 8flat
    Joined: Apr 2, 2006
    Posts: 1,376

    8flat
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I love the T56, but I don't know if you can get a housing with the shifter far enough forward to work in a truck??? Maybe the shifter can be re-located, I'm not sure.
     
  9. Shane Spencer
    Joined: Oct 3, 2009
    Posts: 2,159

    Shane Spencer
    Member

    shifter location im not sure. theres a guy on here running one in a model a. i cant remember what thread it was in though. i believe there are different shifter locations from the different cars it came out of as well. camaro, viper etc etc. its been a while since i looked
     
  10. 8flat
    Joined: Apr 2, 2006
    Posts: 1,376

    8flat
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Yeah, but what we found in the case of the T-5, it came in a bunch of different cars also, but all the shifter locations were too far back if you wanted to swap it into any kind of pickup, that's why you had to find a housing from a jeep or an S-10 truck. I'll bet the T-56 car trannies would have the same issue.
     
  11. Shane Spencer
    Joined: Oct 3, 2009
    Posts: 2,159

    Shane Spencer
    Member

    yeah, like i said im not sure on the lengths exactly. im pretty positive there are t56's with the shifter location further forward from some cars ( i cant recall what car ) but i dont know how far or if it would work. like i said theres a guy on here with a model a running one, and there a pretty tiny car. ill try to find it for you. i would love to put one in my apache. i believe someone put one in a 54 chevy pickup over on the chevy truck forum. ill try to find some links for you.
     
  12. Shane Spencer
    Joined: Oct 3, 2009
    Posts: 2,159

    Shane Spencer
    Member

    also you may be able to run the motor up a tad tighter to the front end and utilize an electric fan setup for clearance if you had too. may bring the trans up just enough. idk how much room youd have to play with if any at all
     
  13. Starboard
    Joined: May 26, 2012
    Posts: 14

    Starboard
    Member

    At this point, I can fab things a bit the way I want to, it's all about planning at this point. Thanks for the thoughts and advice. Any links you can find would be appreciated. Also any links to affordable kits/suggestions. What are the benefits of the different IFS's RFS's etc? I've considered going with a crate engine and new transmission just to have that kind of stuff all taken care of and not having to worry about them breaking, but it'd probably be a lot cheaper to just rebuild one out of an explorer or something. I just want it to be ford and to be capable of being badass at the end of the job.

    Once again, thanks for the advice and thoughts, any additional info is appreciated. Also if there are any cool build threads that you would specifically recommend I'd appreciate links. I've looked at a ton over the past 2 weeksish since joining the boards, but I'm sure that there are some that I've missed.

    The HAMB.... informative, supportive, awesome.
     
  14. Crate motor, IFS and climate control??? Hotrod? Am I on the HAMB?
     
  15. Hi I am still working on mine. Jag suspension. Slow but I keep going. 1948fordpickup.blogspot.ca
    Any one out there have a Merc grill [Canadian pickup] I can get?
    27TV8
     
  16. 8flat
    Joined: Apr 2, 2006
    Posts: 1,376

    8flat
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    HAHAHA.....point well taken. I put my IFS in literally about 1yr before I discovered the HAMB and figured out what traditional hotrods were all about, it was too late for the suspension but I stayed with the flathead and couldn't be happier. If not for the HAMB my F1 would have had billet wheels, EFI crate engine, A/C, etc.
     
  17. jfrolka
    Joined: Oct 4, 2007
    Posts: 897

    jfrolka
    Member

  18. jfrolka
    Joined: Oct 4, 2007
    Posts: 897

    jfrolka
    Member

    I am a whore for traditional and I vote for keeping it original as possible in a hot rod essence.... One thing I heard thats a must is the disc brake conversion up front, I heard the drums are just horrible.

    Y block would be cool with top loader trans

    Ford 9 with cheater slicks

    Maybe a 4-71 or 6-71 blower on the Y block with some 2 barrels on top
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2012
  19. AZAV8
    Joined: May 3, 2005
    Posts: 997

    AZAV8
    Member
    from Tucson, AZ

    As a daily driver, you are going to want comfort and reliability. Crate motor will get you the reliability. For the transmission, T-5. Do a search here on the HAMB, and you'll find lots of threads on T-5's. With the right transmission you can get the shifter up where it almost belongs. I have a 48 F1 and the engine compartment is large enough to handle a 460, which is about the same size as the 7.3l Powerstroke diesel, I'm putting in mine. I measured, it'll fit.

    For front suspension, a beam axle and parallel leaf springs will ride like a truck, no matter what you do to tune it up. I had Elpolacko here on the HAMB install one of his Dodge Dakota IFS in mine. He is in the process of redesigning his lineup of Dakota cross member kits and a 48-52 is an easy one for him. You can bolt-on the larger Dodge D150 disk brake rotors for bigger brakes and a 5 on 5.5 bolt pattern. Also you can get a power rack and pinion unit for the Dakota. Just do a search here on Elpolacko and you will get to see the quality of his work. First Class.

    Flathead motor is nice but they will be expensive to build up into a street motor. A T-5 can be easily adapted to flathead. If you go that way, just remember, that you have small cubic inches (less than 275 usually), and parts are expensive. They also have to be built right and tuned right to run cool without overheating. It can be done, just expensive.

    Good Luck.
     
  20. Mark in Japan
    Joined: Jun 19, 2007
    Posts: 1,466

    Mark in Japan
    Member

    Look for "Willard49"s Jag IFS install, and then ask yourself if it is more difficult thena MII. Then search "MII failures" and see what ElPolacko has to say about weight ratings etc.

    Also, these trucks are a LOT lighter than most people assume, don't overpower it.
    302 will be more than enough poke, and plenty reliable.
     
  21. I've had my 52 f1 since 1980....had a hi-perf 390FE w/4speed for 20 years, ran super strong....put the old flathead in for a while,...now I have a 55 dodge 270 cu. in. red ram hemi w/tripower....ustng all synchro three speed gearbox...excellent combination....it has been 12volts w/electric fuel pump, GM1wire alt,...stock front axle and Posie's twin leaf lowering springs front and rear, and MOST IMPORTANTLY-Disc Brakes up front......don't cobble yours with a Lexus v8...keep it all American....don't need no stinkin IFS....set up properly stock, it steers and handles very well.....DON'T MAKE IT COMPLICATED.....on these f1s, LESS IS MORE !!!
     
  22. Starboard
    Joined: May 26, 2012
    Posts: 14

    Starboard
    Member

    I wasn't planning on dropping my Lexus V8 in, just saying that I'm used to my daily driver having some power under the hood. My Lexus as a whole is a boat and also weighs a ridiculous amount for a car.

    All of this advice has been great. Thank you for the thoughts.

    JFrolka - That truck does look great and rust free. As of today, I'm still just in the planning stages and unless something is just an incredibly cheap steal, I'm going to hold off.

    As far as being a whore for the traditional, I like the traditional look, but I also appreciate modern comforts. I'm not doing a resto as a show truck to be rubbed with a diaper and trailered around, I'm doing it as a daily driver that I'll show off every day. There is nothing wrong with show trucks, that's just not what I'm planning on building.

    AZAV8/Phil - I'll look around at his stuff with the Dakota. There are so many companies making the mustang ii kits out there, I don't know that I've seen any with a dakota kit, but I've seen some trucks with the mustang ii and they seem to ride and drive very nicely.

    Mark - I'll take a look at that Jag IFS install and at some of the Mustang II Failures. I hadn't thought to search of failure, but obviously failures can provide as much information as successes. Thanks for the heads up.

    mschiffel - I'll keep that in mind. I realize that this may be a "light" truck when compared to many modern cars and trucks and doesn't necessarily need overwhelming power. It's always fun to consider though. Some muscle is part of the point of this project for me.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2012
  23. SlamIam
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 409

    SlamIam
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    IFS makes a big difference in a daily on 75mph freeways and rough roads. My F1 looks stock but sits a lot lower. Underneath I did IFS along with a stout X-member, boxing and a triangular 4-link with coil-overs. The stock frame was designed to twist and will defeat some of the advantages of IFS if you don't put a K or X member in to stiffen it. Mine weighs a shade over 3k. With IFS, R&P steering, disc brakes, the X-member and 330hp it drives, stops and handles well.
     
  24. Starboard
    Joined: May 26, 2012
    Posts: 14

    Starboard
    Member

    Slam, it sounds like you and I are on the same page. I had considered a frame swap in order to avoid the "farm truck" bendy design of the F1's frame. As I explained in the OP, I had considered stripping a second gen. Explorer down to the chassis/engine/trans and essentially fitting a cleaned up F1 body to it. Someone appears to have accomplished this body swap here: http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=174298 although I don't think he's yet completed his build.

    However, at the end of the day, I think adding an X or K to the frame likely makes more sense than building a Ford Explorer that looks like an F1. Plus with all the upgrades that I would want to do to the stock Explorer, it probably makes more sense to just upgrade the F1 rather than upgrade the Explorer.

    The concept of an AWD 5.0 ltr v8 F1 w/ lsd, power steering, and disc brakes was appealing though.
     
  25. PaulD
    Joined: Mar 25, 2012
    Posts: 48

    PaulD
    Member

    I am currently doing a 49 - F2 build. I have decided to go front and rear Jag. A Jag front will handle the weight of the 460. I am putting a ford 400ci in mine with a c6 tranny. I have build specs to get it up around the 450 to 500 hp mark for about $2k in parts + machining.

    Jag will give you 4 pot caliper discs on the front and inboard disks on the rear. Plenty of stopping power. As a bonus you get a pretty good power assisted steering rack. I am staring to put my front end in over the next couple of weeks so subscribe to my thread below if you like to see how I go about it.

    Most over here in the land of Oz use a jag front with a 9" rear on leaf springs with disc's. I wanted the jag rear from the start. I just love them. 500hp all day is no problem. They twist axles if abbused too much though. :)

    Best of luck
     
  26. Starboard
    Joined: May 26, 2012
    Posts: 14

    Starboard
    Member

    I'll definitely keep an eye on your project. It'll be interesting to see how that ends up and what you think of how it drives. Thanks for the thoughts.
     
  27. AZAV8
    Joined: May 3, 2005
    Posts: 997

    AZAV8
    Member
    from Tucson, AZ

    The Dakota parts are built for a small or mid-size truck which is your F1. Steve has one under his F100 Unibody and has them under countless other trucks. Both the Dakota and the MII will much ride better than the stock suspension. The MII was originally built for a light car. If you've ever seen a Mustang II you'll know what I mean. I chose the Dakota because it is beefier than the MII and was closer to the stock track width. And I could have Steve weld it into my frame. I know the limits of my welding skills. For me the Dakota just made more sense. I was able to pick up an 89 Dakota front clip with the entire front suspension for $200 so I only had to have Steve install his Dakota cross member. At the same time he also straightened my frame and installed a tube center cross member to stiffen the frame and a hydro-boost power brake assembly for the brake pedal. Great work.
     
  28. Starboard
    Joined: May 26, 2012
    Posts: 14

    Starboard
    Member

    I'm assuming that Steve is the elPolacko guy who did the thread about the improperly installed MII's? You guys are a bit far west for me to actually have him do the work, but I would certainly be willing to take a lesson. It's my impression that the MII would ride nicely and in my mind has the added benefit of being made by ford. I understand that many of the aftermarket solutions are simply designed on the "geometry" of the mustang II, so they're not actually ford parts, but certainly closer than throwing a Dodge IFS under there.

    I also understand the limits of my welding capability and fully intend to have someone professional do the frame/suspension installation welding or at the very least supervise me very closely as I do it.

    At the end of the day, I want an IFS and RS independent or otherwise that will drive nicely as a daily driver and be capable of handling any power/weight I might put in engine wise.

    One of the other reasons I had originally considered the Explorer swap was the benefit of the modern frame. Again, no cross supports etc required because the frame was built for the road in the 90's, not the farm in the 40's.

    In my mind, there isn't a huge difference between an aftermarket chassis for an F1 and simply using a modern chassis that an F1 fits on. There is a difference however between upgrading the original chassis and using either of those options.

    I was thinking, if I can buy a driveable explorer for 800 w/ a 5.0 ltr, v8 engine and IFS already installed, disc brakes already installed etc. I can upgrade those things over time and it'd be a simple matter of installing upgrades to those parts rather than fabbing out or ordering custom aftermarket parts. I don't know if that's realistic or not. The other advantage, in my head atleast would be getting it on the road sooner and not having to find a complete donor truck. I could piece things together just from having a cab that I could pick up for a small amount of money.

    However, when you read about all the failed body swaps that just end up with two trucks in a pile of pieces, I lost my nerve a bit. Plus 2nd gen explorers should be easy enough to find if I end up deciding I want to go that way. The most "difficult" part would be fabbing and installing body mounts to fit everything on the frame, but the fact that someone else has done is means it's definitely possible.

    I don't know. I'm torn, but as of now, my plan is to reinforce the original frame of an F1 and then swap the FS and possibly the RS to get a more driveable every day ride. Thank you for the continued advice.
     
  29. AZAV8
    Joined: May 3, 2005
    Posts: 997

    AZAV8
    Member
    from Tucson, AZ

    Starboard,
    Yes, Annapolis, MD is a ways away from AZ. For your and my truck, a parallel leaf rear suspension is great and the ride will be similar to a modern day truck. I used this kit from Classic Performance Parts:
    http://www.classicperform.com/Store/1948_64_Ford_Truck/4856RLK.htm

    It is a bolt-on once you get the original brackets off by removing the rivets. Easy with a cold chisel, grinder, BFH and a cold punch. The kit uses the original holes. That covers the rear.

    Start the search in your area for a QUALIFIED shop. With some of the crap seen on some of the boards lately, there are some idiots out there that think they can build a safe, quality chassis. Ask some of the HAMBers here to recommend a shop for you.

    I'm sure that Elpolacko can be convinced to build up a 48-52 F1 Dakota IFS kit for you to buy and have the QUALIFIED shop you found above to install. Also, make sure the shop can straighten and stiffen your 64-year old frame. That will include boxing the frame from the front cross member to at least just behind the cab.

    That would be the best course, that I can see for you. This "practice" of taking a classic body and trying to fit it onto a modern chassis is, IMHO, a stupid practice.
     
  30. Starboard
    Joined: May 26, 2012
    Posts: 14

    Starboard
    Member

    Fair enough. Those are the kind of opinions I want to hear, whether for or against the idea. I've PM'ed Steve and will take a look at that rear suspension.
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2020 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.