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Projects 47 Coupe Build

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by oliver westlund, Dec 20, 2018.

  1. top loader 4 spd tranny would require the jeep 4 speed tower and may need some modest machine work. Never done one but many threads around on the topic
     
  2. oliver westlund
    Joined: Dec 19, 2018
    Posts: 541

    oliver westlund
    Member

    okay so potential shift in my build... the 1953 ford customline that has been down the road from me and not for sale for the last 10 yrs is now for sale.... seems to me that itd be pretty cool to have the last year flathead ford made, i could use the rear diff and the manual trans too... any thoughts? good idea? dumb idea?
     
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  3. oliver westlund
    Joined: Dec 19, 2018
    Posts: 541

    oliver westlund
    Member

    okay okay the olds in the 47 while a pita is just cooler
     
  4. Your ultimate decision is going to be a matter of how you think you will be happy with the result. In regard to the installation of the 394, the biggest problem I can see, is that you are going to have to convert to an open driveline, or find a Zepher box. From my experience, I don't think a Ford box will stay together with the amount of torque you have. You might get by using standard rubber, but I blew up two Ford transmissions with the power I had available back in 1959. Here is a valuable link on the HAMB for the early Olds engines.
    https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...o-end-all-other-posts-lasalle-related.149650/
    If I was going with the Olds swap, I would adapt to a TH 350, 400, or 700r4. Here is a link discussing the issue.
    https://www.classiccarrestorationcl...mission-behind-an-early-oldsmobile-v8-engine/

    For the rear end, you could use a Ford 8.8 or 9 inch adapted to the transverse spring. You may even get away without having to split the wishbone. (I have always split the wishbones, but at the time I was doing this, 1958, I never thought about attempting to keep the stock original wishbone ).
    Below is a link to an article discussing converting an open drive transmission to a torque tube. This one is for the Chev, but it will give you an idea of how much work is involved. The one warning regarding doing it this way, is that you still have a weak rear end.
    https://www.hotrod.com/articles/hrxp-1105-tube-rearends-take-five-and-torque-it/
    I remember reading numerous articles back in the early 60s regarding converting from an open drive transmission to a torque tube, but it has been too long to remember any specifics.
    Here is a link to a PDF file containing lot of good flathead information.
    https://www.bobdrake.com/Images/Sales/Minicats/Flatheads-Forever.pdf

    Adapting the later 1953 Ford engine into the earlier chassis, is something I have not done, but this is just my thinking on going this way. I would not have any hesitation adapting the later flattie to an early, pre 1949 transmission designed for the closed driveshaft. The later flattie would not have the torque of the 394, so I wouldn't be as worried about blowing up the transmission or rear end.
    Hope this helps
    Bob
     
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  5. oliver westlund
    Joined: Dec 19, 2018
    Posts: 541

    oliver westlund
    Member

    yeah it helps quite a bit bob thank you! im not worried about the torque tube, i can have a custom driveline made for about 200.00. here is where my minds at...i want a badass hotrod. so i need to put my 394 in. there are kits available with bellhousings to adapt chev manual trans to the 394. that plus a new driveline and an 8.8 or a 9" seems like a solid plan, the last thing in the drivetrain to decide is if i am switching rear diffs is there a reason why i shouldnt just switch to parallel leaf springs back there? that way no rear bones just split front bones
     
  6. There really isn't anything wrong with the transverse design, and when did my swaps back then, I didn't want to have to have parallel leaf springs sticking out the back of my vehicles. It was easier to make the adapters for the transverse spring and weld them to the rear end, (I used Olds), than it would have been to convert to parallel springs.
    Converting to parallel springs, would also mean adding traction bars, and ideally, also adding a panhard bar and sway bar to stabilize the rear end laterally. These designs can quickly become complex and there isn't a lot of room.
    I am not against doing this, but you really have to draw out how it is going to look. I was making low dollar street machines for myself and doing all my own work, so I wanted to keep things as simple as possible.
    Bob
     
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  7. oliver westlund
    Joined: Dec 19, 2018
    Posts: 541

    oliver westlund
    Member

    I hear you. I will look into it, I hadnt considered all of that and I as well am just building a low dollar home built driver to have fun in. Thank you so much, I would be seriously lost without yours and everyones help I have gotten on here

    https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/47-coupe-build.1133545/
     
    enloe likes this.
  8. Budget wise, it would be better to leave the buggy spring and buy or make your new hangars for the rear end of choice. Will need to keep and reinforce the trailing arms now that the torque tube is removed. Lots of info and pics on these arms here on the forum. Do not split and move the arms to the outside of the frame when retaining a transverse spring, that is a no no!
     
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  9. oliver westlund
    Joined: Dec 19, 2018
    Posts: 541

    oliver westlund
    Member

    here is a new potential option since i saw and am buying the 53 ford, would i save a ton of headaches and money potentially if i take the 292 y block, the trans, driveline and rear diff and put them in my 47? itd still be pretty cool and all ford
     
  10. oliver westlund
    Joined: Dec 19, 2018
    Posts: 541

    oliver westlund
    Member

    i could potentially leave it 3 on the tree or idk what floor shifter options there are. i guess figuring out what trans is in the 53 is a big step as well
     
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  11. oliver westlund
    Joined: Dec 19, 2018
    Posts: 541

    oliver westlund
    Member

    well i got it! now i have to put all my cars and parts in a row and figure out what the heck i want to do... 20190119_170717.jpg 20190119_170822.jpg 20190119_170732.jpg
     
    enloe likes this.
  12. Whoa! Slow down for a minute! You're poor and you want to build 3 cars at once? Take it from an old guy who's been doing this for 55 years. Do 1 car at a time. Which one do you really like the best? Concentrate on that one or you'll soon find yourself with 3 cars apart and all of them needing your hard-earned money and time. Do one, preferably one with current, legal paperwork. Get the car in your name before even starting on it.
    Yeah, you can build the other ones in your head while getting your favorite one on the road with good brakes, tight front end and THEN do your engine swap. Keep in mind the Olds 394 with the automatic is a crappy design transmission. Bad news is adapters, flywheels, clutches and reliable transmissions are expensive, Don't even think of using the ford 3 speeds.......they're fragile as glass, I know. I've prolly broken 15-20 of them [with a good running flathead] back when that was all we had. Go with a more modern transmission but it's gonna cost you.
    Sell parts, work overtime, take side jobs...do whatever it takes to buy good parts. Keep in mind building a car using a 394 Olds motor is a pretty steep learning curve for a inexperienced guy. I might recommend using a SBC or even a sbf for a first hot rod. Keep the Olds under the bench until you can slowly accrue the [expensive and hard to get] parts to put it in a ford.
    See the car in my avatar? It took me 10 years of working Tuesday and Friday nights and I sold parts at swapmeets to finance it. Some overtime at work also helped in the $$$ dept. I also did mechanical work for my body man to pay for his services on my car's body. I sold off all my "Future projects" and their parts to help finance my 34 project. And yeah, I picked a non-mainstream engine [Pontiac V/8] but I got the engine for cheap from a buddy and I've been doing this a long time...collected Pontiac parts for many years before starting on mine. I'd still advise new guys to start with mainstream chevy or ford drivetrains.
    Oh, and the mechanical differences between 53 and 54 fords are like boys and girls. 54 was a change for cross members, motor mounts, front suspensions etc. A 53 flathead will not bolt in a 54 ford without re-doing the front motor mounts..
     
  13. oliver westlund
    Joined: Dec 19, 2018
    Posts: 541

    oliver westlund
    Member

    much appreciated advice. no i am not planning on building 3 cars and im not sure if i am inexperienced...less experienced than some of you perhaps. i have done a rotisserie resto on a 66 charger which is no easy feat and some restorations of a few late 60s chev pickups, one i converted from 2 wd to 4x4 and shortened the frame and bed. i was working on a 54 f100 that i had to sell when we had our son, my first car which i still have is a 54 ford customline. i took automotive tech at our local community college and worked localky as a mechanic for a couple yrs. i AM inexperienced at what guys did in the 50s and 60s and alllll of those tricks. what i am thinking is taking my 4 door 54 ford and making it a 2 door EVENTUALLY with this 53 body, i realize that means swapping crossmembers and a lot of hassle but hey, i now have both cars and its got to be less hassle than doing metal fab on the 4 door to make it a 2 door! that being said i now have a 292 y block, radiator, trans, driveline and rear diff that i COULD put in my 47, i have seen the hurst mount for both the olds and the y block and i could make one from scratch like some others have. im not in a rush to finish 3 cars. i do however want to finish or at leadt finish stage 1 of my 47 build asap. i know that involves a lot of work but i am the guy who stays up til 4 in the morning working on his car haha i get tunnel vision and it makes me efficient. i have just been weighing all the pros and co s of the drivetrain currently in the 53 ford against the 394 and the 600 dollar bellhousing kit to put a saginaw or m22 other gm trans behind it. i am still on the fence. i could also take everything back to square one and leave my 54 alone, get the 53 running and do the metal work and save up for the 47 olds install. all 3 cars have clear titles except the 53 ford which is in the wifes name and the husband is deceased but she said BEFORE i pay i will have a copy of the death certificate as well as the title matching with her signature on back. the olds install isnt beyond my reach, its just a daunting task, the last time i started pairing various different transmissions and figuring flywheels etc. was for my 72 firebird i had with a pontiac 350, that was WAY simpler and a complete pain in the ass! i guess if it was easy everyone would have one though haha
     
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  14. oliver westlund
    Joined: Dec 19, 2018
    Posts: 541

    oliver westlund
    Member

    i think i have it figured out. looks like the 292 y block has a hurst front mount on it maybe... so heres the plan IF the 292 is in decent shape and i can get it fired up, i am going to replace the seals, put a 4 barrel intake on it and stick it in my 47, this seems to be the fastest and most realistic route for me to get my 47 roadworthy any time soon. the 394 olds will go on my stand and will slowly get disassembled and rebuilt, i will collect all of the parts to add a better 3 or 4 speed trans behind the 394. then i will drive and enjoy my 47 and if i love the y block in it, sweet! if i want more, the 394 will go in someday. either way in the end i will have a 394 with a good manual trans behind it to put in my 47 someday or the 53 or whatever other project i find. the 47 will get the diff replaced, new drivline, freshened brakes and front bushings, split bones etc. IF the 292 is in good shape i need to decide if i want to run the 3 speed manual thats in it or find a toploader that will bolt to the y block
     
  15. topher5150
    Joined: Feb 10, 2017
    Posts: 1,294

    topher5150
    Member

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  16. oliver westlund
    Joined: Dec 19, 2018
    Posts: 541

    oliver westlund
    Member

    the ironic part is i spent the exact same amount on my olds engine and pukey slim jim auto that came with it as the entire 53 ford!
     
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  17. oliver westlund
    Joined: Dec 19, 2018
    Posts: 541

    oliver westlund
    Member

    question! im considering painting my dash with rattle can black lacquer and a lacquer primer then wetsanding, cutting and polishing it. is this a fools errand or can i pull it off? i would prefer this route over setting up my gun and a booth and heaters and all of that. if it is possible, any tips on what to use/ how to do it? i have no very limited lacquer experience but lacquer is what wouldve originally bern used correct?
     
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  18. s55mercury66
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 3,160

    s55mercury66
    Member
    from SW Wyoming

    The lacquer will dry quickly and probably give you pretty good results. The priker surfacer in a can I am not real familiar with, but as long as you are covering 180 grit scratches or finer, and allow it some serious drying time (like a week or more), you should be happy with the results. Plan on polishing by hand.
     
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  19. goldmountain
    Joined: Jun 12, 2016
    Posts: 692

    goldmountain

    Keeping track of the various engine, transmission,and possible car combinations is very confusing, so I might as well muddy up the situation some more. What 292 are you talking about ? The '54 cars came with a 239. Now if you were in Canada, that engine would be a flathead.
     
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  20. oliver westlund
    Joined: Dec 19, 2018
    Posts: 541

    oliver westlund
    Member

    i have 3 cars, 1954 ford customline 4 door bone stock, 1953 ford coupe the po stuck a 292 y block into, and my 1947 ford (main subject of the thread which i have a 394 sitting under a tarp for. i tend to ramble and think out loud, sorry for the confusion
     
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  21. oliver westlund
    Joined: Dec 19, 2018
    Posts: 541

    oliver westlund
    Member

    pulled the toe board today and the dash. by the time the dash was out it was too dark for pics, also heres what im using for a trunk mounted battery box, any idea what its from? i found it at goodwill...
    20190122_155516.jpg 20190122_155500.jpg 20190122_134647.jpg
     
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  22. oliver westlund
    Joined: Dec 19, 2018
    Posts: 541

    oliver westlund
    Member

    stripped dash to bare metal today, used brillow disk on the 4 inch angle grinder, took me about 25 min. next i will give it a coat of ospho and let it sit for a day then neutralize it and touch up sand by hand followed by lacquer primer
    20190111_153127.jpg 20190123_154707.jpg 20190123_161053.jpg
     
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  23. oliver westlund
    Joined: Dec 19, 2018
    Posts: 541

    oliver westlund
    Member

    anybody know how to remove my headlight switch? i feel dumb for asking, normally id just figure it out but its a bit corroded and i dont want to break it
     
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  24. s55mercury66
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 3,160

    s55mercury66
    Member
    from SW Wyoming

    I'm not familiar with a '47 Ford switch, but most of them have a button that has to be pushed in to pull the stem out. I like to pull them out to the headlights on position first, and then push the button in. While holding the button in, pull the stem out. It may take some finagling, but it will come out. I also like to put it back in exactly the same way it was, so note the position of the dimmer and the stem when you pull it out. This seems to help reassembly if the stem is bent at all. Next, there should be a retaining nut that may or may not have a hex, or a couple notches in it, or it may be completely round. Use some penetrating oil on that, and if it is tight, you can hold the nut and wiggle the switch itself to work it loose. Before reinstalling, make sure all of the threads are clean, and a little anti-seize on the threads is a good idea. After removal, clean the dash with some acetone to remove all traces of oil. Do that immediately, before any sanding, so it is clean and paint will stick. Any oil at all will cause grief when it comes to painting. As an aside, Armor All and any products like it will cause intense paint grief.
     
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  25. oliver westlund
    Joined: Dec 19, 2018
    Posts: 541

    oliver westlund
    Member

    it was too corroded so i ended up prying til i could get the rod out then it unscrewed, i may be able to fix it or replace it with an aftermarket unit and just reuse my handle
     
  26. oliver westlund
    Joined: Dec 19, 2018
    Posts: 541

    oliver westlund
    Member

    sprayed the dash down in ospho, ill give it 48 hrs to get good n dry 20190125_130604.jpg
     
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  27. oliver westlund
    Joined: Dec 19, 2018
    Posts: 541

    oliver westlund
    Member

    got ahold of the last registered owners brother. the last registered owner is in hospital with declining health, he did remember the car and said he sold it to some kid. his brother said he would ask him more details about where it came from but havnt heard anything back and out of respect for their situation i will just let it be. as far as the car goes, with all of the changes im going to be making (engine,trans, open driveline, rear diff) i think i should GULP pull the body off so i can easily access everything. i will put together some kind of box on pier blocks like topher did on his 47. on a bright note, the car club connections got me coincidentally in touch with a fella who inherited his dads 46/47 merc collection which includes 2 convertibles, 2 coupes and 3 buildings plus a yard full of parts, i get to go hunting next week! a 47 merc steering wheel would look sweet on my car!
     
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  28. oliver westlund
    Joined: Dec 19, 2018
    Posts: 541

    oliver westlund
    Member

    couple coats of primer today 20190130_134955.jpg
     
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  29. 50 customcoupe
    Joined: May 8, 2011
    Posts: 404

    50 customcoupe
    Member

    Your coupe looks great, and I like the way you are going on your build. A good trans. for your Olds motor would be a '37 LaSalle if one could be found and at a decent price. Keep chipping away at it and posting pictures for us. Stay safe.
     
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  30. those Lasalles are around and are tough for sure as well as traditional. However, finding synchros and parts is getting to be even more difficult as time goes by. fwiw.
     
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