Register now to get rid of these ads!

460 swap into my 58 fairlane.. need help fellas!

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by luvzccr, Mar 15, 2011.

  1. luvzccr
    Joined: Dec 10, 2006
    Posts: 668

    luvzccr
    Member

    i've searched on here for all the 460 swap threads, and i have found a few helpful ones, but i do have some questions of my own i'd like to toss out there in hopes for some answers.

    i picked up a 460/ c6 tranny for 250 bucks from a guy who bought a truck just for brakes, and had no use for it. so i got a pretty good steal i think. i cleaned her up and its in pretty okay shape so far after looking at it.

    its going into my 58 ford, and i have no need for a power steering pump or an AC unit or anything of that sort. i just need my alternator and pulleys to line up and thats it!

    only problem is they dont line up...
    now please bear with me, i am a young guy with not much knowledge, but is there anything i can do to bring the alternator out a bit more to line up with the pulleys??

    it already has spacers on it. are there any earlier cars/ passenger cars i can get a bracket off of that will have the correct length spacers and bolts maybe? it needs to come out about an inch more.

    if anyone has done this swap in a 57 or 58 and has pictures of their step by step process then you will be the best person ever!


    i know ill have more questions so i'll just keep posting them in this thread ill start, in case anyone else is doing this swap too. thank you very much if you can lend a hand guys

    heres a photo of the alternator and two pulleys:
    it wont line up with that top one unless it comes out a bit more..
    (also i dont know if that fan will have enough clearance in my engine compartment, anyone know if it will or not by chance?)

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Vandy
    Joined: Nov 15, 2009
    Posts: 368

    Vandy
    Member
    from L.A. Ca

    I eat, sleep & love 460's
    You are trying to do what you are not supposed to do. Your alternator belt is correct. The water pump is to be run separate with its own belt. I just use the idler adjuster assembly to tension the second belt. If you run one belt it will not handle the load for very long, and you will smoke it. you can mickey mouse it by using a two groove alternator pulley and install one belt in the outer groove.
     
  3. luvzccr
    Joined: Dec 10, 2006
    Posts: 668

    luvzccr
    Member

    very useful information! wouldnt have even thought about smoking the motor if i were to do that. im glad you eat sleep and love 460s because i more than likely will have a ton more questions down the road for you!
     
  4. OahuEli
    Joined: Dec 27, 2008
    Posts: 5,038

    OahuEli
    Member
    from Hawaii

    Take a look at late '60s-early '70s setups at your local junkyard. I ran a single belt on my 1970 429 for years, including cross country twice with no problems. You can see the setup in my "56 F100" album. As for the fan, you don't need the clutch fan if it causes clearance issues. You can get a fan from an auto parts store like I did. I'm currently running a 460 in my '78 F250. I'll check it out when the sun comes up. Eli
     
    Register now to get rid of these ads!

  5. luvzccr
    Joined: Dec 10, 2006
    Posts: 668

    luvzccr
    Member

    hmm well with what you said Oahueli, i did take a look at your photo and saw that you ran just the single belt. has anyone else done this and not have any smoking issues like previously stated????

    now.. im having trouble finding what i need to move the alternator out a little bit so it'll match up with the two front pulleys. would i need to buy this buy chance:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Bill...tZVintageQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

    hopefully the link works.
     
  6. OahuEli
    Joined: Dec 27, 2008
    Posts: 5,038

    OahuEli
    Member
    from Hawaii

    One thing you can do is use longer bolts and flat washers to space the bracket out, or if you can get another one of the spacer stock like you have between the alternator and block you can cut pieces long enough to add and move the alternator out. As for my setup, I ran it for nearly four years like that and put about 20,000 miles on it, never even had to adjust the belt.
    By the way, my setup came off a 1970 Thunderbird that this engine was originally in, so it was not a problem at all.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2011
  7. hotedsel
    Joined: Oct 29, 2009
    Posts: 10

    hotedsel
    Member
    from torrance

  8. KUZTOM
    Joined: May 6, 2008
    Posts: 910

    KUZTOM
    Member

    I have a 57 with 460/C6 , Its tight around the steering box , running orignal cast iron manifolds ,bit of clever work with a grinder done the trick.
    Big Blocks RULE !
     
  9. luvzccr
    Joined: Dec 10, 2006
    Posts: 668

    luvzccr
    Member

    well i have my alternator situation all solved, took some spare spacers, and a little messing around but i got it to work!

    i was curious though, i dont wanna drop it in the 58 yet without knowing what kinda oil pan sump i need.

    anyone know if i need the front or rear sump for a 58 fairlane 460 swap?
     
  10. OahuEli
    Joined: Dec 27, 2008
    Posts: 5,038

    OahuEli
    Member
    from Hawaii

    Measure from you mount centerline forward on the frame and do the same on the motor. You will probably find the front sump will drop in nicely.
     
  11. bossguy
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 2

    bossguy
    Member
    from Hyde Park

    I just helped my son put a 69, 429, C-6 in his 59 Edsel. We used 78-87 F250 460 mounts. Had to drill one hole in each frame tab for the 2 stud 460 mount. Crossmember needs to be notched to clear the C-6 pan. Or use a Crites crossmember.
     
  12. shoprat
    Joined: Dec 23, 2006
    Posts: 1,109

    shoprat
    Member Emeritus
    from Orange, CA

    I used the stock 429 pan.
     
  13. luvzccr
    Joined: Dec 10, 2006
    Posts: 668

    luvzccr
    Member

    been a while since i updated this thread. im getting ready to drop in it, im just doing some major clean up right now. completley stripping down the firewall, front end, etc. scrubbing all the oil build up and gunk off the underside of the car (very time consuming and dirty!), but im making progress. yesterday i was at my grandmas for 7 hours just getting as much as i could done. i was gonna take out the crossmember thats in there now, but its tack welded in ONE tiny spot and i couldnt shake it apart, so i need to get my dad's dremmel (spelling?), and get it outta there.


    but i got some more Q's that popped into my head yesterday...

    the linkage to the carb. i have an accelerator pedal setup that would be in a 58 ford with a 292 yblock, am i gonna have to get a new pedal setup or something to accomodate this 460 im putting in?

    ...well my mind is drawing a blank right now, coulda sworn i had more questions, they'll pop into my head later probably, so i guess thats the only concern i can think of now.
     
  14. luvzccr
    Joined: Dec 10, 2006
    Posts: 668

    luvzccr
    Member

    well ive been hard at work these past few weeks... sanding down my firewall, getting it super clean and dirt and oil free. same with the front end of my frame. then painted it, not an ounce of dirt on this front end for the first time in who knows how long!! im VERY PROUD of myself for coming this far by myself, and not half-assing it like i did in the past with my y-block swap.

    this time im taking my sweet time and patience, and doing it step by step the right way!! anywho... i have ran into a tiny situation. actually PUTTING this 460 into place.

    after waiting WEEKS just to get the crites crossmember and engine motor mounts for this swap, i finally got them and everything is in place. today by myself, i decided its time to drop it in... well, maybe i should have waited for my dad's help.. this thing sure is a b*tch to drop into place!! im really curious if anyone who has done this swap, ran into a slight snag with getting the tranny to go in over that crossmember?

    i think part of the transmission is hitting the tunnel, but i cant be sure until my dad helps me out and i have a 2nd eye looking at it while im underneath there. i cant get the darn motor mounts into the holes either, it seems to come up just an inch short and i cant push it back any farther! i have it resting right here... cant wait to dress up the engine a bit more, make it purdy

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  15. luvzccr
    Joined: Dec 10, 2006
    Posts: 668

    luvzccr
    Member

    alrighty guys, time for a few questions, i need someinsight on what to buy and get for my radiator/ fan issue. in this pic below, i have the fenders and radiator support mocked up in place with a few bolts, to test the clearance of everything. well, the fan clearly has no room at all. and im using the stock radiator my '58 came with.

    question:
    what fan should i buy that'll fit in this tight little squeeze?

    2. if i considered doing a radiator swap... is there any radiators that'll fit in place of my original?

    [​IMG]

    its at least starting to look like a car again :p got the mounts and tranny all bolted up, made a TON of progress today, im really excited to do a test start this week! maybe tomorrow actually!

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  16. It looks like there might be some room in front of the core support for an electric fan. On my Ranchero I ditched the clutch fan and used a short spacer with an after market flex fan, that might be your most economical way to go.
     
  17. luvzccr
    Joined: Dec 10, 2006
    Posts: 668

    luvzccr
    Member

    i was doing some lookin around and also noticed that the Crites headers for a 460 will slide underneath the crossmember just barley. only problem for me is... well, my '58 sits so low! and i really do wanna keep it that way to be honest lol. are there any other headers i can use for this?

    i read about the FPT shorty's, but is there anything else that'd work maybe?

    thanks for the reply mike, very helpful!
     
  18. OahuEli
    Joined: Dec 27, 2008
    Posts: 5,038

    OahuEli
    Member
    from Hawaii

    Yup, Mikes right. I had a similar problem when I stuck the 429 in my F100. The only issue I encountered was the hole in the flex fan was too small to go on the pump shaft, so I drilled it out. No big deal though.
    I'm glad you're close to running this car. Been following since you started.
     
  19. It's going to sit lower with that big engine in it, the 59 dropped about 2" when I replaced the 292. I cut the unneeded pulley grooves off the crank pulley to gain some room in the front of mine I see you have either done that or found a set of early pulleys.
    The Crites headers come in 10 pieces and really are a good fit if you have the ground clearance but for what you want are not necessary. heres what they look like under my galaxie. Unless you are into spending big bucks Crites is the only game in town for headers, I have modified Headmans for pick ups to fit cars but it was a lot of work getting around the steering gear.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2011
  20. Zig Zag Wanderer
    Joined: Jul 6, 2007
    Posts: 564

    Zig Zag Wanderer
    Member

    Crites used to specify using the 69-71 lincoln mark III/thunderbird water pump for this swap, as it is considerably shorter.

    as far as the fan goes, look at 2.3L pinto/fox body fans from the 70's. they share the same 3/4" pilot diameter, are compact and small, and are usually attached to a 1" deep, matching spacer
     
  21. luvzccr
    Joined: Dec 10, 2006
    Posts: 668

    luvzccr
    Member

    @mike miller, AWESOME photo, that really helps out... looks like i'll have to raise my '58 a bit i guess :/ gotta get some new coils or something for the front end down the road, my mobile home park has speed bumps everywhere now, so that's the bad thing.


    pretty bummed today though guys. took my dad with me to my grandmas house to work on the '58... had everything ready to go so he can help me wire it to start it, (just to test it out to make sure everything is a go so i can move on to other stuff, and just for the fun of it too!)..

    well... hooked up everything correctly and......... nothing. we had juice to everything but the starter was not moving, wasn't turning or anything. took the starter out, (i just bought it too, BRAND NEW from kragen), we inspected it, it was good, so we couldnt figure it out.

    ill admit i know nothing about wiring, my dad.. he told me he's no genious at it either, but he knows what to do when just wiring it enough to turning over an engine.. we couldnt get anything.....

    major frustration.
     
  22. shoprat
    Joined: Dec 23, 2006
    Posts: 1,109

    shoprat
    Member Emeritus
    from Orange, CA

    I'm sure you'll get the wiring figured out. As for the throttle linksage, go get a cable
    pedal at the junk yard. Should be a bracket on the intake to hold it too. Mines
    been like that for years. Looks factory. I used a fan with short spacer also. U
    need a Ford starter without the solenoid on it also.
    FPA shortie headers work good with low cars.
    Good luck, Ron
     
  23. mjlangley
    Joined: Dec 11, 2008
    Posts: 162

    mjlangley
    Member
    from SE MI

    Radiator- perhaps try for an early mustang (69-70) with a big engine and AC. They were downflow like the one you have, but the upper hose will be on the pass. side and the lower on the drivers, just like your 460. Might be tough to find one cheap though.

    Oh, and the wiring, make sure that you have nice clean grounds and have the local FLAPS test your new starter for you to make sure it works. I won't leave there without having them throw the new one on the tester to verify that it works. Sad but true.

    Good luck, looks like a fun project!
     
  24. Neutral safety switch? Where does your solenoid wire come from, check the simple things first.
     
  25. luvzccr
    Joined: Dec 10, 2006
    Posts: 668

    luvzccr
    Member

    thanks for the info on the throttle linkage! i was gonna eventually ask about that too haha, so many questions i have for this swap, yet i feel like ill get some harsh replies on here for askin some silly easy questions probably, like with this wiring issue im havin.


    well, i had ignition wire to starter solenoid.. positive to the battery, negetive from the block to the battery.. turned the key a few times, just the spark. we had juice, but the starter wasnt turnin. i am using the original solenoid though from when i first bought the '58, hasnt been changed. it was sittin out in the weather for a few years too.

    just got home from o'reily's auto parts, had em check the starter, it was perfect, and while i was there i got me a solenoid from a 78 ford f250 (since thats what the motor is from), ill try that maybe?
     
  26. luvzccr
    Joined: Dec 10, 2006
    Posts: 668

    luvzccr
    Member

    found this on my computer: took it at a local car show this year, 57 ranchero with a 460, didnt get detailed pics of the wiring unforutnatley but i was able to find a few good ones, this one in particular, any reason why there are two solenoids being used in this swap?? jason + wiring = sucks... sorry for all these questions guys.


    [​IMG]
     
  27. derbydad276
    Joined: May 29, 2011
    Posts: 1,313

    derbydad276
    Member

    IDK to send more current to the starter

    FYI did you see the electric fan in picture also

    what condition are your battery cables in?
     
  28. 58custom
    Joined: Jan 1, 2009
    Posts: 398

    58custom
    Member

    Alternator. You just need more parts.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  29. 58custom
    Joined: Jan 1, 2009
    Posts: 398

    58custom
    Member

    Radiator. 1968 Mustang 24" 3-row. Fits perfectly on both sides of the rad mount. Of course you have to cut & flip if you use the 460. Fan is Taurus SHO two-fan unit. The single fan unit from the Lincoln or Taurus will not clear the water pump shaft end.
    Headers, mounts and crossmember for C6 from Crites.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2011
  30. 58custom
    Joined: Jan 1, 2009
    Posts: 398

    58custom
    Member

    I tried the shorter T-bird water pump. Found it was impossible to get anything to align with it. Only about 5/8" shorter anyway. Sold it on Ebay.
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2020 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.