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413 ignition question

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by shocker998md, Feb 27, 2013.

  1. Hey guys,

    Ive got a buddy that picked up a mostly complete 1972 413 engine. The ignition system is blowing my mind right now. The "box" is gone for it and im really thinking that it would be simple to swap in a points distributor.

    Im not a dodge guy at all, so what would he need to do to swap to a points distributor, and what year make model should be a drop in unit.

    Hes trying to simplify this engine for a tow rig and figured there has to be some dodge gurus here.
     
  2. The "box" and electronic ignition could be totally eliminated. I went back and forth on a 1970 Charger and a 1972 Dodge pickup. Same coil, and they even kept using the ballast resistor. Ign switch wiring to the coil is the same, just hook the dist. wire to coil - and you're running.
     
  3. b-body-bob
    Joined: Apr 23, 2011
    Posts: 357

    b-body-bob
    Member

    I'm not convinced points are simpler than the mopar electronic ignition system. Maybe it seems that way because you're more familiar with points?


    [​IMG]

    But yeah, you can just swap the e-distributor for a points distributor. Since it's a 413, a 440 distributor will work fine.
     
  4. greazy john
    Joined: Oct 13, 2007
    Posts: 457

    greazy john
    Member

    use the box, i went for years with points on a nasty bb440 always had problems...changed to box problems no more...... dist. all the same on rb mopars-- 413.426,440 , if not the box use a pertronics set up
     
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  5. I agree, Mopar electronic wiring is very simple - just make sure to get a good ground on the ECU, like run a ground wire from a mounting bolt to an intake or other bolt into a head. Dead nuts simple and reliable.
     
  6. GregCon
    Joined: Jun 18, 2012
    Posts: 689

    GregCon
    Member
    from Houston

    You'd be nuts to use points when it's so easy to use electronic.
     
  7. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 8,975

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    1)See post #3 above for wiring diagram. It has everything you need. If you want more detail find an old Mopar repair manual. Any one will do, car truck what's the difference, anything from 1972 to around 1988 used the same ignition. If you can't find a book do a web search. But find the schematic or wiring diagram for the ignition.

    2) Install distributor in engine

    3) Bolt the ignition module to the firewall or fender well. This takes 2 self tapping screws. There was only one basic ignition box used from 72 to 88 or 89, and they are all the same. O ya the very first year had one more wire but they will all interchange. That is the "un used" wire in the diagram. Just get one with 4 wires. You can buy the wiring harness too, or cabbage one off an old 5th Avenue or pickup truck in the junkyard.

    Pick up a ballast resistor while you are at it.

    There are different modules, stock orange box, hi perf chrome box, racing gold box. Just get the orange box or if you feel real sporty, the chrome box.

    All these parts are cheap and common. You used to be able to pick up everything in the Pik A Part for like $20 bucks, but they are so cheap it's hardly worth the bother. Last time I looked a new orange box was around $20, ballast resistor under $5 bucks.

    4) Plug distributor wire into ignition box wiring harness.

    5) Connect up the other 3 wires.

    6) Turn key and go someplace

    Really it could hardly be simpler. Break it down step by step and it shouldn't take more than an hour for the whole installation.

    The Chrysler electronic ignition was one of the first electronic ignitions on the market. It was used for years, is EXTREMELY rugged and trouble free. See that control box? That is 1970 transistor technology. Today you would put the whole thing on a chip the size of a match head, and it would blow out if the sun went behind a cloud.

    I asked an old Dodge mechanic if he ever saw a Chrysler electronic ignition fail. He said "once, on an old farm truck. The box rotted off and the guts fell out." He put a new box on and it was fine.

    This is in Canada, I have heard in hotter climates (Texas, New Mexico) they can fail from heat after long use. In that case I would suggest putting the box in a cooler location, even ahead of the rad.

    The one part that sometimes fails after long use (like over 100,000 miles) is the ballast resistor. This is why you often find a new ballast resistor in the glove box of old Dodges. People carry a spare just in case, since they are so cheap and take up no more room than a pack of gum, why not? While you are in the junkyard picking up parts, go through a few glove boxes and stock up on NOS ballast resistors.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2013
  8. tommy
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 14,758

    tommy
    Member Emeritus

  9. Last edited: Feb 27, 2013
  10. Thanks guys, Reason I said go to points is becaues I dont know jack shit about this mopar stuff.

    I gave my buddy the info and he going to replace it with stock stuff. The coil and box is gone, and the dizzy has had the cap off it for a while so that will be replaced as well.
     
  11. Frankie47
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 1,694

    Frankie47
    Member
    from omaha ne.

    Glad you are making progress:)
    1972 seems kinda late for a 413.......big truck application?:confused:
     
  12. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 8,975

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    They had 2 413 truck engines that year, both with 4 barrel carb, 238HP and 265HP. If he got one out of an old Winnebago it might have very few miles on it and be good for another 100,000 or 200,000 miles in his tow truck .
     
  13. Truckedup
    Joined: Jul 25, 2006
    Posts: 3,841

    Truckedup
    Member

    Man ,413....A great junkyard find for a late 60's B block muscle car was a dual point ball bearing distributor from an early 413.
     

  14. yea its a motorhome take out. Plan is tear down, hopefully re ring and re bearing, aluminum intake and slight headwork. Got a 750 edelbrock for it and it should be a great engine. Thanks guys!
     
  15. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 8,975

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Those truck 413s were heavy duty, very long lived engines. If you replace rings and bearings get the best ones you can find, preferrably from your Dodge or Chrysler dealer. The truck ones are different from the car ones (bearings).
     
  16. GregCon
    Joined: Jun 18, 2012
    Posts: 689

    GregCon
    Member
    from Houston

    "That is 1970 transistor technology. Today you would put the whole thing on a chip the size of a match head, and it would blow out if the sun went behind a cloud."

    That's really not true. You might put the computing power on a match head but we're talking about power electronics here to an extent. If you condensed that 1970's box to a match head it would overheat right quick, even if it did allow the engine to run until it cooked itself. There's not a lot of computing going on in a Mopar box but you still need to deal with the heat and that's why they rae so rugged - they are big enough to run cool. It's also why a lot of guys don't like Pertronix units that do it all inside the rotor cap....not enough mass to handle the heat.
     
  17. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,222

    73RR
    Member

    ^^^agree.

    To the OP, there are two variations of 413 engines as used in MH and trucks. Have you verified that yours looks like a 440?
    Easy way to tell is the exhaust manifold stud layout. Pass car style are in a straight line, the 'other' are staggered. This can be an issue to some folks.

    .
     
  18. Although your statement is generally true, in the case of the PerTronix, part of our design and testing criteria is heat testing to a minimum of 300° for hours on end.
     
  19. el Scotto
    Joined: Mar 3, 2004
    Posts: 4,129

    el Scotto
    Member
    from Tracy, CA

  20. Old Dude
    Joined: May 12, 2006
    Posts: 193

    Old Dude
    Member

    I even think a 361 has the same Dist. as 413 c i , 440 , even 426 if my old memory serves me right. My son is the Mopar nut, but between us we own 6 or 7 B B Mopar Motors. I also have a MSD Dist. brand new in box, & more for a build my son was going to do. He even has a '70 340 c i that he won't sell.
    Also I have a 8 & 1/4 Dodge Pick up Rear. Same bold circle as small Ford. I have bad back & don't do much any more, but piddle with them !
     
  21. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,222

    73RR
    Member

    B engine and RB engine distributors have different length shafts...

    .
     

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