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History 41 Plymouth Coupe Questions

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by leadfoot1000, Sep 16, 2020.

  1. leadfoot1000
    Joined: Nov 4, 2005
    Posts: 31

    leadfoot1000
    Member

    Hey guy’s, I have a lot of interest in 41 Plymouth Coupes and have followed several of them being built on here. I’m planning to buy one and I have a few questions:
    Did the different coupe models come with two different roof lines? In the photos below the flat black car appears to have a lower roof line and meets the rear of body at a lesser angle than the gloss black car. I see an obvious difference. If yes, what particular models have the lower roof line?
    [​IMG][​IMG]


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  2. leadfoot1000
    Joined: Nov 4, 2005
    Posts: 31

    leadfoot1000
    Member

    Also, i noticed many builds involve replacing the entire front clip. For a V8 build that would be 400hp or less, with manual trans and a beefier rear end, is there anything “wrong” with rebuilding and using the stock front end, disc brakes, lowering it some and adding airbags? What are the disadvantages of using this type of setup? Thanks


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  3. plym_46
    Joined: Sep 8, 2005
    Posts: 3,997

    plym_46
    Member
    from central NY

    Club coupe has rear seat longer rear quarter glass that rolls down. Businessmans coupe has no rear seat, smaller fixed rear quarter glass, different roofline and different trunk lid. Rear sheet metal of business and convertible mostly interchange.
     
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  4. rockable
    Joined: Dec 21, 2009
    Posts: 3,017

    rockable
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I started out using the original suspension on mine but simply didn't like it. I did a lot of work on it, only to finally give up and put a front stub on. (See my build thread and possibly some other threads i created during that time.) You can make the original suspension work but just remember it was designed for dirt and rough roads and bias ply tires. You will, at minimum have to change the shock mounts and offset the engine away from the steering box. If you lower it, you may not be able to get your camber settings where you want them. I drive my car on the interstates and it rides and drives great. My build suits me. You will have to decide what suits you.
     

  5. scrap metal 48
    Joined: Sep 6, 2009
    Posts: 6,072

    scrap metal 48
    Member

    From what I read, there are NO differences between the P9 and P10 coupe body except trim.. The 1941 coupe has the same main body as the 1940....
     
  6. flat black coupe is a distorted photo, throwing off the proportions..
     
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  7. plym_46
    Joined: Sep 8, 2005
    Posts: 3,997

    plym_46
    Member
    from central NY

    Green club coupe, black business coupe. Also club coupe has larger curved backlite, buscpe has smaller flat glass. Roof lined didn't change from 40 through 48.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
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  8. plym_46
    Joined: Sep 8, 2005
    Posts: 3,997

    plym_46
    Member
    from central NY

    With stock suspension you can get a 2 inch or so drop by relocating the lower spring mounts from the top to the bottom of the lower A arms.
     
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  9. ol-nobull
    Joined: Oct 16, 2013
    Posts: 1,510

    ol-nobull
    Member

    Hi. If you are considering lowering the car just blocks in rear is usually fine. For the front if you cut the springs the ride goes to shit with that bounce. Instead of that what you can do is cut the rivets holding the lower spring cup on the A arm and lower it. If you look at www.butchescoolstuff they offer both rear blocks and a front kit that should work with most independent front suspensions. With that kit you mount a set of arms below the arm and then mount the removed spring kit to those arms. This allows the spring to not be cut and simply allows the full length spring to go thru the A arm for a lower bottom mount. Or instead of buying that front kit you can remove the lower spring cup and get a black iron schedule 40 pipe cap with a large enough ID so the spring will fit inside and weld it to the bottom of the A arm. This should be about equal to 2 coils removed and you may need to shorten the coupling for proper drop. To compare measure the distance from the top of lower spring cup in original to inside bottom of coupuling below A arm. That will tell you if you need to shorten coupling some. Or use a Schedule 40 coupling and weld lower spring cup to the bottom of it and cut the coupling to length for proper drop and weld to bottom of A arm. With either of these methods you still have a full length spring for much better ride and eliminate that cut spring bounce as that bounce looks stupid going down the street. When lowering with a heavier engine it is much better to keep spring full length if you lower.
    With all that said at my old age (82) I find it very hard to get in and out of a lowered ride so I quit lowering my rides and leave that stock now.
    Just my 2 bits worth if you plan on lowering.
    Jimmie
     
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  10. missysdad1
    Joined: Dec 9, 2008
    Posts: 2,945

    missysdad1
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    After owning this car for over 30 years and modifying it in just about every way possible I can tell you this: Don't take advice from anybody who has not done what they advocate themselves. There is so much bullshit advice going around on these cars that is simply not right. Just ask me how I know.

    So...what's my advice after 30 years of trying to get a Plymouth to do everything right? Buy a Ford.
    .

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
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  11. RJP
    Joined: Oct 5, 2005
    Posts: 1,654

    RJP
    Member
    from PNW

    Nothing wrong with that set-up. About 40 yrs ago, I dropped a SBC/auto in a guys 41 Plymouth with explicit instructions to make absolutely no changes that couldn't be reversed if he wanted to return to stock. Now, this was at a time when there was absolutely no aftermarket anything for this type of swap. So I broke out the tape measure, and went to town. I found by cutting the steering column even with the firewall (leaving just the shaft to the box exposed), and using a set of rams horn exhaust manifolds with a bit of grinding done by where they crossed, and sliding the motor 3/8ths of an inch to the passenger side with a set of custom motor mounts, he got a totally reversible engine swap. Switched to a hanging brake pedal, and slipped a 9" ford in the rear. Made some kind of custom tranny mount (if memory serves) so the X frame stayed intact. I do remember being impressed with that Plymouth's frame. He left the car completely stock otherwise. He beat this car like it was a rented mule (even showed me a 100mph ticket), and it held up well. Funny thing was, after about four years I saw this 'totally stock' Plymouth dropped (cut coils), with a 3" roof chop. So much for keeping it totally stock....
     
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  12. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,297

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Plymouth brakes and suspension were state of the art for the times, much better than anything Ford had. The stock suspension rebuilt and aligned to factory specs works well, so do the brakes, for a stocker or mild hop up. There are simple improvements like disc brakes, better shock absorbers and a Jeep roll bar can be added. You can have a lot of fun for not much money with a stock, or mildly hopped up flathead six.

    If you want to run a big block expect to change the suspension, brakes, transmission, and rear axle. Don't expect it to be as much fun to drive, or buy gas for.
     
  13. Weren't holding your tongue right?

    Ben
     
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  14. leadfoot1000
    Joined: Nov 4, 2005
    Posts: 31

    leadfoot1000
    Member

    Hey Rockable, thanks for your reply. I read your build thread with great interest more than a year ago, but I forgot a lot of the info. I just started reading it again. I also followed farmer’s thread and of course, love his car. I’m wondering why he stopped posting.


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  15. leadfoot1000
    Joined: Nov 4, 2005
    Posts: 31

    leadfoot1000
    Member

    Thanks for the advice , but I’ve never been much of a Ford guy, although I do like 40 ford coupes and some Zephyr coupes. I currently have a 54 Chevy PU and a 57 Chrysler New Yorker, and will be adding a 41 Plymouth and if I ever find the right deal, a 59 Impala (I know, good luck with that one). I also like GTO’s, Cuda’s, and Road Runners. No Fords on my list. Here’s my 57 Chrysler.
    Adjustments.JPG Adjustments.JPG


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  16. scrap metal 48
    Joined: Sep 6, 2009
    Posts: 6,072

    scrap metal 48
    Member

    1946-1948 had 2 size coupes.. The coupe with the longer top and quarter windows was called a coupe sedan, I believe....
     
  17. leadfoot1000
    Joined: Nov 4, 2005
    Posts: 31

    leadfoot1000
    Member

    My face when someone recommends buying a Ford instead of building a badass Mopar. IMG_2882.JPG


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  18. Work In Progress
    Joined: Dec 14, 2010
    Posts: 156

    Work In Progress
    Member

    This is all good advice except you have to figure out a way to add caster if you change to radials and have any kind of rake. That adjustment is limited on the stock front ends so some "ingenuity" is required to get a few degrees.
     
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  19. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,297

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Why do you need more caster?
     
  20. rockable
    Joined: Dec 21, 2009
    Posts: 3,017

    rockable
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Eric went through a divorce and something else must have happened. He sort of fell off the face of the earth. As far as I know, no one on the HAMB has heard from him and everyone would love to see that car finished.
     
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  21. goldmountain
    Joined: Jun 12, 2016
    Posts: 2,211

    goldmountain

    The club coupe wasn't available in '40 and '41. It came out with the 1946 cars.

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  22. abe lugo
    Joined: Nov 8, 2002
    Posts: 2,260

    abe lugo
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I just sent you a PM for one that showed up complete all original Coupe, ridiculous deal.

    I would just clean it up and run it as is.
     
  23. leadfoot1000
    Joined: Nov 4, 2005
    Posts: 31

    leadfoot1000
    Member

    Thanks for your reply. So does that mean only one roof line was built on the coupes in 41, regardless of whether it had a back seat?


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  24. leadfoot1000
    Joined: Nov 4, 2005
    Posts: 31

    leadfoot1000
    Member

    Judging by the taillights and center brake light that green car is a 46 or later. Also notice the abrupt change in angle where the roof meets the rear deck. Basically a body line where they meet. Based on the replies I’ve received and my own research, my opinion is that the club coupe was not offered in 41 and 41’s did not have two different roof lines. Thanks for your reply.


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  25. gene-koning
    Joined: Oct 28, 2016
    Posts: 2,025

    gene-koning
    Member

    The Standard Catalog of Chrysler 1924-1990 list both a business coupe and a club coupe for 1940, 1941, and 1942.
    The business coupe is listed as a 3 passenger car and the club coupe is listed as a 4 passenger and a 5 passenger car.

    The 1940 Plymouth lists only a business coupe in the P-9 Road K trim line, (an export only P-9 club coupe was listed) but lists both a business coupe and a club coupe in the P-10 Deluxe trim line. The business coupe is listed as a 3 passenger, while the club coupe is listed as a 5 passenger.

    A 1941 Plymouth lists both a business coupe (3 passenger) and a club coupe (4 passenger) in the P-11 Deluxe trim line and a Business coupe (3 passenger) and a club coupe (4 passenger) in the P-12 Special Deluxe trim line.

    A 1942 Plymouth lists a business coupe (2 or 3 passenger) and a club coupe (4 passenger) in the P-14S Deluxe line, and a business coupe (2/3 passenger) and a club coupe (4 passenger) in the P14C Special Deluxe trim line.

    A 1946-1948 Plymouth lists a business coupe (3 passenger) and a club coupe (now a 6 passenger) in the P15 Deluxe and the P15 Special Deluxe.

    So that tells me Plymouth made both a business coupe without a back seat, and a club coupe with a back seat from 1940 through 1948. Gene
     
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  26. leadfoot1000
    Joined: Nov 4, 2005
    Posts: 31

    leadfoot1000
    Member

    Thanks a bunch for the lead! I’m in contact with the owner and will be looking at it tomorrow.


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  27. Work In Progress
    Joined: Dec 14, 2010
    Posts: 156

    Work In Progress
    Member

    So it will drive straight down the road. If I remember, these cars were speced at 0 degrees caster, somewhat ok for bias tires on country roads but add radials, a slight rake, and 65 down the interstate could create some interesting steering. With the factory eccentrics you'll be lucky to get 2 degrees positive, sometimes that is enough, sometimes not.
     
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  28. Skrambler
    Joined: Dec 29, 2005
    Posts: 38

    Skrambler
    Member
    from Arizona

    I believe there is confusion between a club coupe, and a two door sedan. I believe that Club Coupes, as they are called became post war. There was an Auxiliary Seat Coupe, that have the same roof lines as the Business Coupe but sported a second fold down seat in the rear. I own one. The Two Door Sedan had the full backseat and the same roof line as the 4 door sedan.
     
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  29. leadfoot1000
    Joined: Nov 4, 2005
    Posts: 31

    leadfoot1000
    Member

    I think we’re just using different terminology for the same thing. Here’s a history clip on allpar where they state the 41 offered an Auxiliary Seat Coupe, often referred to as a Club Coupe or Opera Coupe, where the seats folded down from the sides.

    Thanks to everyone that replied, when I get a car I’ll post some photos here and continue. I have enough info and viewed enough photos now to pick a car.


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  30. leadfoot1000
    Joined: Nov 4, 2005
    Posts: 31

    leadfoot1000
    Member

    [​IMG]



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