Hot Rods 4 Banger Guys, Aluminum Winfield Head Questions and Problems

Will those running or who have run the newer reproduction cast aluminum Winfield heads please stand up?

Have you had any leaks in those heads? If so, where?

Have you ever bought a head that needed fixing (as in the porosity in the casting went right to the water jacket and needed some weld) and did it work? Was it an easy fix or a problematic issue that never went away?

Lastly, to my knowledge, the fellow casting these ONLY makes them in two compression ratios, 6.5-1 and 7:0-1 so why is Sacremento Vintage Ford selling what they are calling an 8:5-1 Winfield head? They dont even have the 7:0-1 rated head even listed??
I called and asked about it and I was told they don't have that but have an 8:5-1 head instead???

(see link)
http://www.vintageford.com/sect_search.cfm?Line=4B&Category=Engine%20Heads

Anyone know soemthing I don't know??
Thanks a million in advance!

 

I've run a Winfield 6.4:1 for four years, a superb item. Soon going to upgrade to the 7:1. Never had a problem with the current head.

 

Thanks Darren,....

what do you say on the Sacremento website on the supposed 8.5 compression head??
I got one in from them and it looks like the 6.5-1 head,...no crow's foot chamber??

 

I have one too, and only run it on a stand, about 15 times and no problems yet...

 

I posted a reply on the monthly banger thread. I would suggest you call Jim Gordon at Antique Automobile Industries in Rosemead ca. 626 288 2121. He can by hard to catch.
This is Gene Scott's old business and they were and probably still are the firm that supplies these heads. I once mentioned to Jim that I was considering milling some off the head that I had purchased from them. He said not to do it as the combustion chamber worked better at the 7 to 1. I purchased a Crow's Foot from them in 1997 not sure it is available currently.

 

Someone else, may be The Wrong Un on here, mentioned to me once that Speciality never cast any over 7:1. Don't know where Sacramento get their info from.....

 

May have been me Darren. From my conversations with Jim at Specialty I understand that they don't do anything over 7:1 compression. I've got a 7:1 on mine and it has been faultless in operation, I'd recommend them to anyone. Jay Steel at Taylor Engine told me that Jim may be a little off with his compression ratios, but to be as far out as 8.5:1 is stretching it a bit.

Clark (Enbloc) has said in a previous post that he has an 8:1 Winfield, perhaps he may be able to shed some light on this.

 

The crow's foot is the 7:1 right?? The one I got from them doesn't have that,...its a flat gradual grade in the combustion chamber,....if you look at the link I posted the way they list their stuff is kooky at best!

 

I have a Winfield 7:1, I have only given the head a light skim to ensure it is true and straight with the deck. Lots of VHT copper coat on the gasket and it has worked great.
I used to work at Pro Topline (now RHS Heads by Comp Cams) the repair work they did with heads was incredible providing you heat treated accordingly

 

Well, that's the thing we pre heated the head to 200 deg everytime! Once to 250 deg. and still couldn't weld it up and seal the porosity. My buddy took it to work threw it in the over heated it up completely then welded it up,..STILL had porosity and leaked!!! The rest of the head looks great, no little holes or porosity,....I think its a good casting with a REALLLLLLY bad spot on it!

 

Without seeing it have you tried this?
Nawing the the porosity out with a die grinder or depending on the size - a drill. Then look for similar cast alloy and machine a filler that can be fitted and welded in? Like I say its a bit hard to describe this without seeing it

 

Sacramento Vintage advertises that the 8.5 to 1 head has a 124 cc combustion chamber. They list the cc's and compression ratios for all their Al Winfield heads.
So take 124 cc's volume combustion chamber,
add 1 cu in times 16.386 to get 16.386 cc's for .060 thick head gasket volume, don't get nit picky about valve head displacement in the combustion chamber.
124 cc's + 16.386 cc's = 140.386 cc's
add to that 50.21 cu in x 16.386 for cylinder displacement toial of 821.29 rounded off
add 821.29 and 140.385 for a total volume of 961.676
divide 961.676 by 140.386 and you get 6.85
Did I miss something?? I might try a 7 to 1 with babbit but i don't think you would get too many hard runs with 8.5 to 1 anyway Brumfield stated in an article in the S O S S mag that at 7 to 1 the babbit started to move after several hard runs.

 

yeah, you missed....

add 1.65CR to induce more sales

 

we took out the porosity with the die grinder and so forth but did not try using a machined filler plug,...either way, if there's porosity in the surrounding cast aluminum, when heated to melting temp. that porosity in the form of air, gases, etc. will still try and escape, thus entering into your weld.

 

HOLY S%$#T! You go math whiz!,....wow,...in all honesty, thank you for those calculations, it was very interesting. I'm not good at those kinds of figures. Thank you also for the info on the babbit,....I can't imagine with our newer babbit being put into these engines that you'd have anything go very wrong,...the tin content is naturally higher these days, something old speed guys always used to request right off the bat. Plus, better metalurgy,....I would think the whole sha-bang would hold much better?

 

HA! yeah right...lets hear it for corporate mindsets!

 

Did I?!?!

Mine came with another engine but was unused so I have no idea what it started life as.

I think I had mine skimmed.

Never had a problem with it. Seems abit undersized internally and externally, possibly because of being a mould from a mould or using a cast iron mould to produce an aluminium head?

 

Mine rules...no leaks, no problems. 7:1, got mine from Red's Headers.

 

You did. When someone asked the spec on the Fastest 4 Banger thread.

 

Yup...looks like you did!

 

Oh yeh!

7:1 skimmed gives 8:1!

 

I got my head from Charlie Yapp, at Secrets Of Speed Society, its Iron 7.1, called a Lion head and it been great. Not as well known as the Windfield, but for the dollar spent I got more then my moneys worth. Cause they are all reproductions, and most of the repo stuff is questionable. Charlie makes GREAT stuff.

 

One other variable that should be in the formula is the amount the piston is above the deck at TDC. With a stock bore of 3.875 each .005 the piston rises above the deck calculates to .059 cc's. On my flathead the deck had apparently been milled, the pistons protruded a total of .032 so i could have deducted another 6.184 but I machined .012 off the top. This could probably go on and on. I would think that manufacturers would use the established blueprint figure to calculate the compression ratio.
As to the current formula for babbit I don't really think there is much new over that in use when Mr Brumfield's article appeared in Mr Yapp's publication. Mr Brumfield manufactures "cheater" cylinder heads for the not so pure "purist" model "A" owners/restorers and did extensive testing regarding compression ratios verses babbit life and performance. I was told by some one who was there that in the early days of lakes racing the engine only had to last for one run and that run was "balls out", if it broke you went home and fixed it. The bearings in this old timers car were poured and scraped at Inglewood High. They would throw in a couple of silver dollars in the XX babbit. Bearing scraping s pretty much a lost art. In those days they would scrape until they had 80% contact using Prussian Blue to mark the contact. This was the type of thing taught in schools then.
More trivia that you probably don't need!

 

Sadly i've had several not so good items that i've bought from him,...though some others have been more than fine.

 

Oh if I could learn that lost art!!!!!!!!!! I'd love to learn that and have the tools to do it myself! Free babbit work for club members and friends!!!!

 

I'm not surprised it's a bit undersized if you skimmed it from 7:1 to 8:1!!!
That's a skim and a half......

 

So I polished up that new Winfield head and put her all together. Now I just have to get the body done and finish fabbin' up the header!!
lets hope this head doesnt leak.

 

Are you going to run the Winfield carburetor? I have one on my Winfield flat head. The one in your pic looks like a "BB". If you PM me I will give you the needle settings I am using.

 

CoalTownKid, did You repair the leaking head or did You demand a new one?
Looks great polished!

 

Did you lay the gasket on the head??? Some of the aluminum Winfields have combustion chambers that seem to have "wandered" enough to cause the gasket to hang out and burn the fire ring and blow. Good luck!!