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Technical 4-53 gmc Y block blower project

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by 46international, Oct 6, 2018.

  1. I picked up a GMC blower at a swap meet yesterday and the plan is to stick it on to of a 292 Y block that is in my '30 tudor.
    I have done a little looking and think it is a 4-53 blower which may be on the small size but I'm ok with that because I did not want a big boost anyway. The motor it will go on is a stock '59 Y block that has just been rebuilt. I have the choice of heads, a set of '57 heads with the big valves that will raise the compression to about 9.1 and a set of rebuilt stock truck heads with small valves that will give about 8 to 1. I still have to check the casting number of the truck heads. Both sets of heads are posted. I'm thinking the '57 heads would give too mush compression. Thoughts?
    My questions are, will this small blower move enough air for a 292? I'm not looking for a race motor here just a little more power and the cool looks of a blower motor. The manifold, I was thinking of two ways, I could make a manifold from scratch starting with flanges that i can cut out of steel and fab one up. Or I could use a stock 4 barrel cast iron manifold and mill off the top and open up the plenum then weld/ braze on a mount for the blower. Now, if I fab up a manifold, what should I do for the runners? The Y block has stacked runners in the head, one on top of the other, can I use just one runner for both ports? or should I separate the runners all the way up to the plenum? What about the drive, it will be a little tight up front but think I can get three 1/2" v belts in there will that be good? what about two belts? remember I'm not looking for big boost, speaking of boost, will I get any benefits from 4 lbs boost? What about a waste gate? I guess I should have one even if I drive the blower slow enough for the low boost just for backfire protection. I'm going to have to make a snout for the front and this may be a slight issue as the end plate cover is stamped steel and that won't give the support needed for the drive, But I can come up with that. I did some searching and saw a guy was putting a 6-53 on a hemi motor but his skill level is way more than mine. I have a mill and a 9" lathe so I can make most of the parts myself.
    Thanks for any thoughts
     
  2. 34Phil
    Joined: Sep 12, 2016
    Posts: 137

    34Phil

    The B&M 144 is basically a 4-53 so same drive ratio formula should work. DR=(B+14.7)xED/(25.58xBD) B= boost in PSI. ED=engine size. BD=blower displacement (144 CI) DR=(4+14.7)x292/(25.58x144)=1.5:1
    That 25.58 assumes engine intakes every other revolution and volumetric efficiency of 87% with teflon strips. Without them maybe use 0.70x14.7x2=20.58 and DR=1.8 I don't know safe max RPM.
    Blowers do not run a waste gate and without a cogged belt you can get by without a popoff valve. Separating runners not necessary.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2018
  3. Jmountainjr
    Joined: Dec 29, 2006
    Posts: 760

    Jmountainjr
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Sounds like a fun project. The 53 series blowers use bushings in the end plates, not bearings like the 71 series. And since not usually used in performance applications there are not the same upgrades, like sealed bearings, drives, etc. available. A 3-71 or 4-71 would be easier, but hot rodding isn't always about easy. You can run oil feed and return lines or perhaps design your own custom bearing setup. Have fun with it.
     
  4. saltracer219
    Joined: Sep 23, 2006
    Posts: 552

    saltracer219
    Member

    Yes 53 series blowers must be pressure oiled or very early failure will result. I don't think there is enough material in the stock end plates for bearings to be installed so a pressure system would be necessary or a 71 series blower instead.
     
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  5. miker98038
    Joined: Jan 24, 2011
    Posts: 349

    miker98038
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    46international likes this.
  6. Thanks for the quick replies, sounds like I will need to make new end plates with bearings. I could go with sealed bearings. I'll have to see what aluminum plate I can find.
     
  7. 34phil, thanks for the math.
     
  8. dana barlow
    Joined: May 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,137

    dana barlow
    Member
    from Miami Fla.

    A few years back,I was thinking about a blower also for a Ford Y-block. Although I stopped working on that project, parts I made are still laying around. Here are a few photos of ,as far as I got before moving on to other things fun,more info under photos PDR_2157.JPG mockupAlumplate.jpg PDR_2152.JPG PDR_2244.JPG fun ! I milled a 2bbl Y-block intake{dosen't matter as 2bbl will open same as a 4bbl after milling !} Brazzed 1x1in. to it as a mount for 1/2in. alum plate to be mount for supercharger 471. I have the alum plate also,but didn't drill it yet/needed snout size* an pulley line up for that. Made a drive crank shaft pulley,2 V belt to be good. I had not added blow-off valve to intake ether. Found a spring loaded belt holder too,but the cost of a aftermarket 471 snout stopped me,looks to need about 7in+ snout . Use ideas or make offer on parts as is,to get a jump up on it,for saving time,OBO
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2018
  9. nrgwizard
    Joined: Aug 18, 2006
    Posts: 973

    nrgwizard
    Member
    from Minn. uSA

    Hey, 46;
    Look up Gary Dyer(sp?) & his work. IIRC, he used to be in the Chicago area, & eventually specialized in blower-rebuilding + blower manifolds for "non-mainstream" mills. (read: anything other than chev n chry hemi). He usually took a 4bbl manifold, cut out the divider, made a plate that fit the blower bottom, & used the carb holddown bolt holes to mount said plate w/tapered flathead-type machine screws. He may have added outrigger stand-off posts on the corners of the 6-71 sized plate that fastened to the manifold, but I don't really remember that. While it seems to be restrictive, it worked just fine, as boost would find its' way into the manifold, + most of those guys weren't running 20+lbs either. I seem to remember he cut away the cross-ribs in the blower outlet for easier a/f transfer.

    As far as if 4lbs being worth it, Stude blowers got ~5-6lbs, but that was measured at the blower outlet, not in the manifold, which has been shown to be 3-4lbs (on a stocker-type setup). Take my word for it, even that is well worth the effort. No bragging rights, but lots of fun n grinning results. & it *does* make a huge difference *where* the boost comes in. Meaning; low to mid-range rpm is most effective & noticeable. & easier on the engine. too. Larry Widmar states: "RPM = Ruins Peoples Mototrs". The ~ easy limit for stock pistons is ~ 6lbs. BTW, if you use a better (freer-flowing) intake, ports n exhaust system, the noticeable boost will be lower, but more power made due to less restriction. Boost should be thought of as resistance to flow (restriction).

    Hope to see more soon.
    Marcus...

    Dana; That blower setup really needs to see the light of day on your roadster. Soon. :D .
    Marcus...
     
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  10. rustyrods
    Joined: Jun 14, 2005
    Posts: 290

    rustyrods
    Member
    from Dixon,Il.

    I have 312 with I think is a 4- 53 blower on it . The manifold I was told was made in new zealand Can't be sure. Anyway here is a photo. There are four 97's on it .
     

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  11. Fordors
    Joined: Sep 22, 2016
    Posts: 1,313

    Fordors
    Member

    Rusty, that is a GMC 4-71.
     
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  12. I took the blower apart to start cleaning it up and yes it does not have bearings on the shafts. The bearings and shafts look to be in very good shape so I was thinking the simplest thing to do would be to run an oil line to the end plates and a drain from the bottom. These oil lines, I would guess the thing to do would be to have a restriction fitting in them. I think when you would install a by-pass filter on a motor you would install a .060" orifice in the line so you don't drop too much pressure. What do you all think about that?
    About the manifold, I'm liking the idea of using the stock cast iron manifold and adapting it with just a plate bolted to the carb flange or cutting it out like Dana did. I will have to check to see the carb flange is straight with the top of the motor or tilted to keep the carb level when the motor is installed at an angle. if it is, it will not be a problem as I can just level it up and mill it off. I have an old 4 barrel manifold I could use, it is one of the small tea pot manifold so it will not be cutting up a $300 manifold.
    I see Dana was going for a two belt drive, is that good enough? Anything I do with the drive,, I will first have to find someway to make a drive snout for it and that may require a big chunk of aluminum to cut it out of.
    What do people do with the drive shaft? I have the spring pack that goes with it but it is not the best of shape, one of the spring leafs is broken, can you buy parts for these? Or can I just remove the spring pack and make a shaft that mounts to the gear. I remember in diesel school that these were to absorb the shock load of the drive, I'm thinking it would be best to repair it and use it.
    Well, thanks for all the input
     
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  13. japchris
    Joined: Apr 21, 2001
    Posts: 203

    japchris
    Member
    from England

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  14. nrgwizard
    Joined: Aug 18, 2006
    Posts: 973

    nrgwizard
    Member
    from Minn. uSA

    Forgot to mention; if you go w/a V-belt style, I'd cut for at least 3 ribs. You can match the v-belt width n depth to whatever belt dimensions you find. When you get the belt, look for a one-piece-type that has continuous ribs across it, instead of 3 separate V-belts, since you can either leave the belt looking like a wide ~2" belt, or cut the belt into 3 separate belts, but in either case, the belts will be the same length which then will require less total tension to tension all equally. Or go w/a 2' Gilmore-style belt (early '60s).
    Marcus...
     
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  15. dana barlow
    Joined: May 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,137

    dana barlow
    Member
    from Miami Fla.

    As far as blower drive V belts go,for drag racing an high psi,yes 3 an even 4 belts were used for maxed out HP "Y"s long ago. But for playing around on the street,even one good v belt would work,I was planning on two belts,just looks better too me,then only one. The newer type wide flat Gillmer drive belts an rib pulleys are not the thing I was looking for=too new.
     
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  16. Thanks for the link, I see he is running two belts. Using the existing manifold like that looks very easy, shame to cut up that 3x2 like that but it sure look cool now.
     
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  17. I agree, thanks for the input
     
  18. So were talking 1.8 times engine speed? That would be over 8 grand with engine speed at 4500rpm. That sounds mighty fast. If I use the 1.5 number it would be what, 6700? I'm going to have to look at how G.M. ran these blowers. The max rpm was around 2200 crankshaft speed but I don't know the gear ratio of the blower drive. I wish I had a 53 series tech manual.
     
  19. after some research, I have found the max rpm for the 4-53 is 2500rpm and it looks like the blower is driven faster than crank speed, I can't find a good picture of the gear train but it looks like the blower drive gear is about 1/2 the size of the gear that drives it, and that is the cam gear that turns at crank speed. So the blower turns about 2 times crank speed or about 5000 rpm at wide open. I would like to get a tooth count on all the gears involved but so far it looks like I may be able to turn it at 6700rpm. any thoughts?
     
  20. Jmountainjr
    Joined: Dec 29, 2006
    Posts: 760

    Jmountainjr
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Any time you overdrive a roots blower it make a lot of heat. Normal street blower applications are anywhere from 10 to 15 percent under driven to 10 to 15 percent over driven. It's been a long time since I worked on a 53 series, but it was typical for the blowers to run 1.6 to 1.8 times crank RPM. So your about 5000 RPM at WOT on the diesel is in the ball park. A 53 series blower has straight lobes, not a helix like a 71 or 92 series. So they are not as efficient. Blower produced heat is not a bad thing on a diesel, but not what you are looking for. I don't think your plan to turn the blower 6700 is a good one and would be a very short lived and potentially dangerous adventure. I'd suggest one of two options. Either use the 53 blower at no more that 15 % over and just enjoy the look and sound of it, or get a 4-71 or 6-71 blower that will due that you want, and more, at 10 % under. Just my $0.02.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2018
  21. dana barlow
    Joined: May 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,137

    dana barlow
    Member
    from Miami Fla.

    I made a few custom block off plates for 4-71 ,and have a 2x4 topper to use on top/part of old 2x4 highrize that I though would look cool. Use ideas if you like. For the street a 6-71 is a bit too big for 292,an as pointed out by Jim, a better thing is 471. Make a offer ( asking 600 for all blower stuff I have all ready,blower spins free/no nicks),I'd like someone to use my stuff I put time in too,but will not use. I made my self a good working 4x2 intake on my own "Y" again. Desided I like well enough to keep it with 4x2. PDR_2154.JPG PDR_2155.JPG 001 (4).JPG
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2018
  22. Ok thanks for the tip, I'll see if I can use the math to see what the boost should be with a 15% overdrive. At 4500max crank rpm that would be 5170 blower speed. That should be ok what do you think?
     
  23. Sorry Dana as nice as your set up looks, it's a little over my price range, I picked up this blower for less than $100 at a swap meet. So it will be this one or nothing. Thanks anyway!
     
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  24. Hope you all don't mind, I changed the title of this thread. I hope to get some 4-53 comments,not that I don't appreciate any help. I did find two threads about 53 blowers because of those that have posted here.
     
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  25. acme30
    Joined: Jun 13, 2011
    Posts: 126

    acme30
    Member
    from Australia

    Whilst this is on a flathead - it is a 453 blower and will give you some ideas. Search speedgems post post of Let's See Some Blown/ Supercharged Flatheads (sorry I don't know how to do a direct link to that post)

    In terms of oiling there are a few of them running around in Oz using the stock oiling system including the stock end plates. As has been said by other posters if you want to use sealed bearings there is not a lot of meat in the case to fit them so the ones I have seen use the stock pressure fed system.

    The one's I have seen just oiled from the one side but I figured it might be better to pressure feed from both sides that way each bush/bearing gets the same amount of oil so that's what I did. I was concerned about loosing oil pressure to the rest of the engine so I put a restrictor in the feed line. I am using the pressure feed from the back of the engine with a Y adaptor into the Y...... I tapped a thread so I could screw a carby jet into the feed line. I figured that way I could adjust the oil flow if I needed to but haven't had to worry about it.

    The other thing I did was so that the front snout and rear cogs ran in oil I inserted some small drain pipe into the front case so that the oil 1/3 fills the case before overflowing into the return drain pipe.

    The motor is up and running good :)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2018
  26. Man!, thanks for this, That is what I was thinking, run the drain tubes about 1/3 or so down on the side so the gears stay in oil. like your oil tubes, they look great. I see you are running only one drive belt, how is that working? How fast do yo spin it? what pressure do you get? That drive snout looks like a manufactured item, did you make it or buy it? And what about oil to the bearing at the end of the snout, how does it get oil? or is it a sealed bearing?
    Nice looking set up, got any photos of the complete motor/car?
     
  27. My old man worked at a factory in the early '50's that had a little GMC 'shorty' tractor. They used it as a 'switch' tractor. I would get dropped off there after school to catch a ride home, sometimes early, while he was still driving it. He would see me & rev that thing up. He said it was a 3 cylinder diesel. That little truck would just scream, what a beautiful sound! I don't know the year the truck was but it was a '48-'54 type cab. It musta been a round a '50 as it didn't have the big 'gaudy' grille like those later in this series. Man I'd love to have that truck today. Talk about rarer than hens teeth - wow!!
     
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  28. wuga
    Joined: Sep 21, 2008
    Posts: 273

    wuga
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I am running a 6/53 with sealed bearings. The end plates are from Joe Blo in Australia. They are not cheap by the time you get them here but they do the job. Here is a picture I pulled off their Facebook page.

    Warren

    Joe Blo Speed Shop
    August 17, 2016 ·
    Joe Blo Speed Shop are the only manufacturer who make billet blower end plates for the GM 6-53 series.
    These blowers do not use bearings on the rotors but only rely on oil pressure to support the rotors.
    Our end plates use heavy duty ball bearings which lets you spin the blower faster.
    We can also rebuild and fit these to your blower.
    www.joeblospeedshop.com ...

    See More
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    4 Comments
    5 Shares
     
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  29. acme30
    Joined: Jun 13, 2011
    Posts: 126

    acme30
    Member
    from Australia

    The motor is in a 1932 pickup under construction so not on the road yet but motor is running and runs strong.

    The belt is a B belt so it is wider than the A belt and seems AOK for what I will be doing. At reasonable / safe revs (for a flathead) it doesn't seem to slip or be an issue. My intent was that if slippage became an issue then I would swap to 2 belts down the track - but I really don't think that will be necessary in my case.

    We made the blower pulley the same size as the crank pulley 5.5 inches so it runs 1 to 1 ratio. I don't ever intend running the engine over 3500 / 4000 revs most use will be around 2500 revs so it should all be good. I know of another comfortably using 1.25 overdrive on the blower on the street for many years with no issues. I haven't put a gauge on it so I don't yet know what pressure it runs.

    My good friend Phil did all the machining and made the snout using a combination of eaton m60 blower front, cutting off the mounting face and welding it on to a custom front plate that he machined. I bought a sealed bearing for the front of the snout and removed the seal from the rear of the bearing. So the front side of the bearing is sealed and the rear side is open and oiled by the oil galley that lubricates the blower drive cogs. To couple the drive to the blower we replicated the Eaton system. The Eaton drive coupling uses a round biscuit coupling with 6 holes drilled in it 3 holes have drive pins linking it to the snout and three are linked with other pins drilled into the blower toothed drive cog - so it slips on (sorry don't have a pic of this).

    Since the pics were taken I have reduced the size of the alternator pulley (so now it charges at low revs)and I plan on replacing the fan belt with a Kevlar version (standard belt does not appreciate my tensioning system.)

    Here are a couple of early pics of the pickup (before the blower was operational)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
  30. Thanks for the info, I went to your build thread I guess it was, and have to say, nice job! would like to know what your boost is when you find out. I don't know if I will be able to use this blower I have, with my larger motor I can only get about 1.5 lb boost when over driving it 15% or 20% or so. I found a post with a chart of different blowers and what they displace and it showed the 4-53 is not the same as a 144 blower. it is quite a bit smaller, so it looks like I will have to spin it so fast that it may not work for me. Also there are two sizes of 4-53 blowers, one short one and a longer one .... neither one will put out the flow I will need even for 4 or 5 lbs.
    What displacement is your flathead?
     
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