Register now to get rid of these ads!

Technical 394 Olds to Ford T-10

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by chopndrop, Jan 21, 2019.

  1. chopndrop
    Joined: Feb 8, 2005
    Posts: 711

    chopndrop
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I'm collecting parts for a future project, but I will admit right up front I have no experience working on manual transmissions, especially piecing together stuff from 50 years ago. This is going to be going in a Model A, and this is just for a basic street car, no track time or anything. I have what I believe is a 1963-1964 Olds 394, block #585786, a Ford T10 transmission with the dual bolt pattern, and an old Cragar bellhousing to connect the two. The engine had an automatic, but I recently picked up a 166 tooth 14" flywheel, which matched the size and tooth count from what was on the engine, so I think I got the right one. So now, I'm not sure what else I need.

    My first thought was to look to see about a stock presure plate, which is available. However, after some discussion it's been brought up that this may not be the best for my application. Perhaps it's a little weak? What do I look for? Are there standard bolt patterns that will bolt up to my flywheel without having to have it redrilled? Would the factory replacement be fine? The one I see is a diaphragm style. What is the difference vs the 3 arm style?

    Being that this engine had an automatic, I was not expecting the crank to be drilled for a pilot bushing. However, it is drilled somewhat as I was able to bolt the transmission to it without the input shaft hitting anything. The specs for the stock pilot bushing I found say 1.093" OD, however the dish in the crank is probably close to 1.75". I've heard it's possible to make a pilot bushing, is that what I should do here given a stock style doesn't seem like it will fit?

    Lastly, for now, I don't know what kind of throw out arm the Cragar adapter is made to accept. There is a raised flat ledge, and there is a bolt through it. Does anyone know what was intended to be used? Hopefully the pictures will show it good enough.

    I know there will be more questions in the future, especially if I start getting more components pieced together. This is for a future project, but I would like to be able to know what to be looking for.

    20190110_232548.jpg 20190110_232248.jpg 20190120_213958.jpg 20190120_215147.jpg Screenshot_2019-01-21-07-19-41.png
     

    Attached Files:

  2. My first observation would be that the shifter would appear to be set back pretty far for a A project. Cragar catalog may tell you what clutch arm is required. I know the Transdapt catalog I have provides the info on the extra pieces required for their various adapters.
    The input shaft of the tranny seems to be set back further than I would expect. Perhaps others will chime in here on the pilot bearing spec. I am running a stock Olds clutch behind my 324 in the A. I don't know why you would need a performance clutch with the 394 in an A. The A's are so light, not much weight to hook up. I know @F&J can turn his tires over in 2nd gear with a similar set up in his 32. Believe he is running a stock clutch as well.
     
  3. GordonC
    Joined: Mar 6, 2006
    Posts: 2,556

    GordonC
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Also just an FYI. If you could go with the Ford top loader 4 speed and Jeep top shift conversion instead it would move the shifter forward about a foot and put it in the center of the transmission. I have that 4 speed and shift tower in my A roadster.
     
    belair and F&J like this.

  4. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 5,912

    tubman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The opening the the adapter seems to be designed for a standard '50's ford clutch arm and accessories. I have a bellhousing that adapts an early hemi to '49-64 Ford transmission and it has the same opening and I have test fitted an arm off a '51 Ford and it fits perfectly. These arms are easy to find and cheap. I have 3 extras myself.
     
    F&J likes this.
  5. old flopper
    Joined: Apr 23, 2013
    Posts: 452

    old flopper
    Member

    You will have to fabricate a special pilot bearing for that application. The 394 olds engines from that area had a different crank for manual trans than they did for an automatic.

    Once swapped '59 manual and a '60 automatic between cars and had to swap engine cranks also. The '60 crank had concaved dished area that didn't even allow for fabricated pilot bearing to be installed.

    Edit: As vtwhead said “The input shaft of the tranny seems to be set back further than I would expect”. You might be able to locate a flywheel that has pilot bearing located in it, I know some do but can’t remember which it is, or possibly modify flywheel to accept pilot bearing.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2019
  6. chopndrop
    Joined: Feb 8, 2005
    Posts: 711

    chopndrop
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    @vtwhead what transmission are you using?
     
  7. chopndrop
    Joined: Feb 8, 2005
    Posts: 711

    chopndrop
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The transmission was last installed in a mustang behind a small block, so the input shaft should be stock length. It does go inside the recess in the crank a little. But again, I don't have any experience putting these together to know any better. If I am making my own pilot bushing, can I compensate with that? How deep should the input shaft be in the bushing?
     
  8. oliver westlund
    Joined: Dec 19, 2018
    Posts: 1,289

    oliver westlund
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    176 tooth flywheel, pretty sure
     
  9. I believe you will find the pilot bushing will go in the Flywheel hole not clear to the Crankshaft. Depending on the flywheel hole I.D. you might look at any FE Ford solid bushing and turn the O.D. of it to fit leaving a light shoulder to keep it in the Flywheel. Nothing uncommon about doing something like that. I agree with the Ford style bearing fork. There are many different shapes from the Fulcrum point out but from that point in I believe they are all the same. I have shifted many of them around to get the outboard end I wanted with no issues. Some are strait some have a step forward some have a large hole for push rod some have no hole, like I say several choices of linkage ends. The only bearing end I found different as I remember is 70's Truck 4 speed. Personally I'd use the Olds pressure plate and Ford disc and move on.
     
  10. Desmodromic
    Joined: Sep 25, 2010
    Posts: 571

    Desmodromic
    Member

    Not mentioned here is the installed engagement length of the clutch spline on the transmission input shaft. Looks from your pics that it will be minimal. Can't give you an acceptable dimension, depends on car weight, tire traction, and how you drive. Maybe some Hamber can advise.
     
  11. chopndrop
    Joined: Feb 8, 2005
    Posts: 711

    chopndrop
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If you look at the pictures of the end of the crankshaft you can see a step, about 3" in diameter. The flywheel center hole indexes there.
     
  12. chopndrop
    Joined: Feb 8, 2005
    Posts: 711

    chopndrop
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Just measured the length of the input shaft and the distance to the end of the splines from the transmission mounting surface. I get about 5-3/8" to end of splines, 5-1/4" not including the bevel, and 6-1/2" to end of shaft on the T10. I have a 50s era transmission here (R10?), which I would assume this adapter was originally intended for. That measures about 5-1/4" to the end of the splines, and is shorter overall at about 6".

    2019-01-23 07.41.35.jpg 2019-01-23 07.43.50.jpg 2019-01-23 07.42.28.jpg 2019-01-23 07.42.03.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2019
  13. I have gone to the 37 Buick large case (6 bolt top cover) using a 51 or later Olds bell housing. The tranny has been modified using the gear gut and tail stock from an Olds selector tranny. In my case I got lucky and found a 57 tranny which is a very heavy duty unit. @F&J and I believe @Paul did posts a few years back on the tech involved. I use a stock Olds clutch and disk and related Olds parts for the TOB etc. Frank is running one now in his daily driver 32. No synchro for first gear unlike the newer trannies. The 38 box works also fwiw.
     
  14. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,222

    F&J
    Member

    I would put the flywheel on, then the bell & trans. Then look to see if the splines are in the right spot for a clutch disc.

    If that looks good:
    You'd also want to visualize the Crank bushing area to see if that proposed "extended bushing adapter" will interfere with the front of the clutch disc. I know you don't have either of those yet, but you should be able to see if it will work together, (by seeing where your splines are, in relation to the clutch disc surface of your flywheel).

    @vtwhead ...Walt, his 166T 394 flywheel is the one that came from the "Olds Farm". You were there the day I found it, along with many other earlier Olds & Cad ones. I think the 166t was going to go into the 61 98 convert in the lower floor of the big barn. That had to be the largest collection of early Olds (incl J2 & standard trans stuff) on the planet, eh?.....the good old days..

    .
     
    dan griffin and kidcampbell71 like this.
  15. Paul
    Joined: Aug 29, 2002
    Posts: 15,590

    Paul
    Editor

    hard to give advice without being there with all parts on hand
    follow Frank's advice above to know if your transmission will work
    then when you take the crank and flywheel in to have them balanced have them drill for the custom pilot bearing
     
    saltracer219 likes this.
  16. Willie McCoy
    Joined: Jul 26, 2014
    Posts: 5

    Willie McCoy

     
  17. Willie McCoy
    Joined: Jul 26, 2014
    Posts: 5

    Willie McCoy

    It's a Ford fork you need as well, Cragar was good about that. I can set mine up in my 39 with a few forks to see what you should start with. I made the throw out bushing adapter to Chevy for the J2 in my 34 Plymouth and would be happy to make another for cheap to see you succeed. My buddy and I do these swaps a lot, want to keep Olds in the limelight. Shoot me a text, I got some good info 3039132157.
     

    Attached Files:

    F&J, vtwhead, dan griffin and 2 others like this.
  18. dan griffin
    Joined: Dec 25, 2009
    Posts: 495

    dan griffin
    Member

    Willie has the right idea.
     
  19. chopndrop
    Joined: Feb 8, 2005
    Posts: 711

    chopndrop
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I will definitely get the flywheel on there and see how everything looks, may be a few days before I get the time. And that bushing adapter looks like something that would help me.
     
  20. chopndrop
    Joined: Feb 8, 2005
    Posts: 711

    chopndrop
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Just happened to stumble across this Hot Rod Feb 1957. Don't know if you will be able to see this chart they printed, but they show that going from Olds engine to Ford transmission, use Olds or Ford Truck 11" presure plate. Just poking around on rockauto.com, if I get a clutch kit for 60s Ford FE I can get an 11" clutch and the disc should fit my 10 spline transmission. Does this sound right? I still plan to test out my flywheel before I order any parts.
    Also, looks like they list diaphragm and lever style pressure plates. Is there reasons to get one or the other?
    20190127_220154.jpg 20190127_221654.jpg Screenshot_2019-01-27-22-15-37.png
     
    kidcampbell71 likes this.
  21. Paul
    Joined: Aug 29, 2002
    Posts: 15,590

    Paul
    Editor

    I'll take the gold one,
    Always good to have a spare '37 Cad LaSalle with '50 Olds tail laying around ;)

    20180507_103327.jpg
     
    kidcampbell71 likes this.
  22. chopndrop
    Joined: Feb 8, 2005
    Posts: 711

    chopndrop
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Here's a few pictures with it back together with flywheel bolted on. The splines on the input shaft start right at the face of the flywheel. I assume that's what I want, correct? 20190127_225334.jpg 20190127_230238.jpg 20190127_230233.jpg 20190127_230301.jpg
     
    kidcampbell71 likes this.

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2021 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.