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Hot Rods 392 hemi overheating

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by babblewon, Jan 19, 2022.

  1. babblewon
    Joined: Aug 19, 2007
    Posts: 196

    babblewon
    Member
    from cali

    Tried to get a pick. The bottom of the hole has a nice score, like the bolt was bottomed out and a torque was put on it, causing the gouge.
     

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  2. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 19,874

    gimpyshotrods
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    Certainly looks like touchdown to me.
     
  3. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 19,874

    gimpyshotrods
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    Did you check the length of the head bolts?

    Also, have a look to see that they have a small shoulder just under the head, of about 3/8".

    Just making sure that these are Hemi head bolts, and not just any old grade-8 bolts.

    I have seen some odd stuff on, and in engines.
     
  4. babblewon
    Joined: Aug 19, 2007
    Posts: 196

    babblewon
    Member
    from cali

    Yeah and it’s fresh, so not like an old scar. The rest of the old is all dirty and what not...
     
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  5. babblewon
    Joined: Aug 19, 2007
    Posts: 196

    babblewon
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    from cali

    Bolt length is correct and they have the shoulder.
     
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  6. [QUOTE Yeah and it’s fresh, so not like an old scar. [/QUOTE]

    I have to agree with that.
     
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  7. SEAAIRE354
    Joined: Sep 7, 2015
    Posts: 424

    SEAAIRE354
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    If you have a micrometer compare the thickness of the fire ring on both head gaskets. I agree in the one pic that it doesn’t look like it was touched.
     
  8. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 19,874

    gimpyshotrods
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    Cross your fingers and toes! This is enough to allow a leak.
     
  9. babblewon
    Joined: Aug 19, 2007
    Posts: 196

    babblewon
    Member
    from cali

    I’ll mic it again. I did yesterday when I pulled them, forgot what the numbers were.
     
  10. junkman8888
    Joined: Jan 28, 2009
    Posts: 811

    junkman8888
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    In an earlier post you mentioned that you located the contact information for whoever built the engine, were you able to talk to them and if so, what did they have to say?
     
  11. Were I the builder I would listen and probably give some insight but after sitting 9 years it's out of warranty.
     
  12. babblewon
    Joined: Aug 19, 2007
    Posts: 196

    babblewon
    Member
    from cali

    Left a message, no call back yet. I’m in no way shape or form looking for warranty or anything like that. Was hoping he kept paperwork from his builds or can at least remember something from the build. I’ll take whatever info on it that I can get...
     
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  13. EarlyMoparIron
    Joined: Sep 27, 2007
    Posts: 2

    EarlyMoparIron
    Member

    I don't know if this has been brought up yet but do you have good oil pressure? My 392 was overheating and it turned out the oil pump needed to be re-primed after the car sat a while. Apparently a common problem on the OE pumps. I changed to a 340 converted pump from Hot Heads. Problem solved, even after winter storage.
     
  14. junkman8888
    Joined: Jan 28, 2009
    Posts: 811

    junkman8888
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    Pist-n-broke, not concerned with warranty, interested to find out if builder had block and heads checked for cracks, was the block or heads decked, ect.
     
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  15. babblewon
    Joined: Aug 19, 2007
    Posts: 196

    babblewon
    Member
    from cali

    Oil pressure at 50 cold. Around 25/30 as it sat at idle when warm
     
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  16. babblewon
    Joined: Aug 19, 2007
    Posts: 196

    babblewon
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    from cali

    Fire ring .048 on side that head had to be pried off
    .050 side that lifted right off
     
  17. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 19,874

    gimpyshotrods
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    A common resurfacing of a block or heads removes 0.010".

    Your fire ring compression differs by 0.002". I am not sure that is enough to do this, but frankly, I have never explored this as a failure path. I could only speculate, and I do suppose that this could allow combustion gasses by, to a near cooling passage.

    There are two small ones that are somewhat closer than others.
    upload_2022-1-24_10-40-47.png

    Explore the crack situation. If there are none, put washers on the head bolts and try again.
     
  18. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,710

    73RR
    Member

    Sorry for the delay. A very good friend of mine went into Hospice on Thursday and died early this day so have been pre-occupied...

    I looked at all of the gaskets that I have, Dodge-DeSoto and Chrysler, and all have a hole, however, each different gasket has a different sized hole that I presume is for the purpose of metering water flow. Real hard to know exactly what the gasket manufacturers are thinking.
    IMO, Chrysler wanted some water moving at that point or the head would not have a hole so the question is only that of quantity.

    Gary
     
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  19. babblewon
    Joined: Aug 19, 2007
    Posts: 196

    babblewon
    Member
    from cali

    My condolences on your friend. I have unfortunately gone through this a few times this last year with friends and family. Never seems to get easier.
     
  20. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,710

    73RR
    Member

    Thanks. The older we get the more often it happens until it is our turn....
     
  21. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
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    gimpyshotrods
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    If even that. Ten of the 11 that I saw go under in last 20-months were all under 45.

    I am sorry for your loss. It is never easy, irrespective of age.
     
  22. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 19,874

    gimpyshotrods
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    Of course, we cannot discount that both of those numbers could be indicative of insufficient gasket compression.

    We have no way of knowing how much material may have been removed from the decks. Early Hemi's are pretty hefty, and can take a decent cut.

    A lot of engines are like this from back in the day. The six in my Ford got a whopping 0.090" off of the head to get the compression where I wanted it (long story about chamber/dish mismatch).
     
  23. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 19,874

    gimpyshotrods
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    I would not be able to explain why Chrysler would bother to machine holes in blocks and heads, if they were not needed. Time and tool wear are a thing.

    I mostly deal with 354's, as they seem to show up more often than others where I am. On all of the "never-apart" ones that I have opened, the factory installed gaskets had tin rings around all cooling passages, and all cooling passages were utilized. None were blocked.

    I have three pair of 354 heads on or next to the bench right now. All six of them have evidence of a gasket halo around every single passage.
     
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  24. Truckedup
    Joined: Jul 25, 2006
    Posts: 4,426

    Truckedup
    Member

    Typical composition gasket compression is about .005 on several non hemi gaskets I have measured….local machine shop says it’s the same on all engines with a 50-60 thousands uncompressed head gasket..
     
  25. babblewon
    Joined: Aug 19, 2007
    Posts: 196

    babblewon
    Member
    from cali

    I did find a couple 392 engine builds online, one was on motor tend I believe. The phots showed them using a gasket without the holes and the block DID have holes in that location. They did not have pics of the underside of the heads though...
     
  26. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 19,874

    gimpyshotrods
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    Whatever the metal shows is what it is supposed to be. Not sure about the gaskets, though.
     
  27. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 19,874

    gimpyshotrods
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    We're currently missing the uncompressed thickness of these gaskets prior to install. If these were 0.050" thick gaskets, then they did not stand a chance here.

    The gasket appears to be a Best 595G. Best does not seem to publish specs.

    I hear that their customer service is good. This might take a phone call.
     
  28. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 19,874

    gimpyshotrods
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    Best Gasket
    9230 Norwalk Blvd
    Santa Fe Springs, CA 90670
    sales@bestgasket.com
    phone 888.333.2378

    Give them a call and ask them how thick these gaskets are before being installed.
     
  29. babblewon
    Joined: Aug 19, 2007
    Posts: 196

    babblewon
    Member
    from cali

    Just called. He said .048 + - prior to install, .043 + - compressed.
    I’m getting .048 + - after pulling them....
     
  30. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 19,874

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You may have found the answer to the problem, so long as there are no cracks.
     
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