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Technical 392 Hemi head gasket blueprint needed for building a honing plate

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Hemi Joel, Mar 5, 2020.

  1. Hemi Joel
    Joined: May 4, 2007
    Posts: 1,528

    Hemi Joel
    Member
    from Minnesota

    Hi does anybody have a blueprint on hand of the Chrysler 392 Hemi head gasket that could be used to build a torque plate for honing? Thanks, Joel
     
    loudbang and Desoto291Hemi like this.
  2. I have what you need.
     
  3. Mike VV
    Joined: Sep 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,029

    Mike VV
    Member
    from SoCal

    Why don't you just buy a (set) of plates ?
    Seems like a lot of work to design your own, when they can be purchased...ready for use.

    Mike
     
  4. Hemi Joel
    Joined: May 4, 2007
    Posts: 1,528

    Hemi Joel
    Member
    from Minnesota

    I am buying a plate. The seller says it doesn't have holes for the dowel pins, and if I wanted to wait for him to order a gasket, he would ad the holes, or send him a blueprint and I would not have to wait. At Brian's suggestion, I am going to have them ship them to me as is. Then just add the holes myself so I don't have to wait.
     
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  5. 270dodge
    Joined: Feb 11, 2012
    Posts: 742

    270dodge
    Member
    from Ohio

    Just my 3 cents worth on the subject of using plates on early Chryslers. I sat in my shop one afternoon and chatted with an old acquaintance who raced on the same strip as I did. As his son loaded two 392's on his truck, the old boy and I talked about those engines and he told me that early hemi's did not need a plate. He was a two time national champion AA/GS and I'll accept his advice anytime! He later changed to the 426 and he said that it absolutely needs one.
     
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  6. Hemi Joel
    Joined: May 4, 2007
    Posts: 1,528

    Hemi Joel
    Member
    from Minnesota

    He might be right, but it sure can't hurt, either
     
  7. https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/i-know-no-one-will-read-this.1185331/


    See ???
     
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  8. TRENDZ
    Joined: Oct 16, 2018
    Posts: 386

    TRENDZ

    I have a drawing. Be certain of the hole size you select though, different heads/ blocks have different dowel sizes. I made a honing plate and a o ringing jig for a bhj grooving tool.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. 392
    Joined: Feb 27, 2007
    Posts: 1,206

    392
    Member

    Nice work TRENDZ
     
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  10. Hemi Joel
    Joined: May 4, 2007
    Posts: 1,528

    Hemi Joel
    Member
    from Minnesota

    Thanks Trenz!
     
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  11. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 4,216

    ekimneirbo

    Actually, I don't see a real need to have the plates located by dowels, especially if there are different size ones. If I did put dowel holes in the plate, I'd put the largest size so it would work with all size dowels. The Point is that the bore on the plate is going to be larger than the bore on the engine. Should be able to visually locate honing plates and tighten them down. As long as an edge isn't hanging over a bore, I don't see any real problem.

    The second thing here is that if you put dowel pin holes in and they are off location even slightly (.002), your plate may not fit at all. You can enlarge the holes in the plate a little till the plates do fit and still be plenty close enuff. What I'm saying is that it is not only a precision pin, but it requires a precision location. Looking at the drawing that Trendz provided, I have some questions in my mind about how he arrived at those dimensions. I would guess that he had access to some type of co-ordinate measuring machine since he has some 4 place decimals. Since you farmed out the machining of the plate, I would guess that you may not be equipped for precise location of the dowel holes. At the very least I would get a gasket to use for a locating pattern.
    Not knocking anyone here, just saying that most people are going to struggle with accurately locating and drilling the holes, and you might actually be better off just locating the plates visually......at least take a look /see before drilling. :D
     
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  12. Hemi Joel
    Joined: May 4, 2007
    Posts: 1,528

    Hemi Joel
    Member
    from Minnesota

    RacerX brought up the idea last night on the phone the the dowel hole really just need to be clearance. The guy building the plate already has all the other dimensions precise. For some reason he was lacking the dowel pin dimensions. I sent him trendz drawing this morning. When I get the plate, I'll set it on the block and make sure they fit. If not, I can enlarge them. I could have measured this with a caliper and got close, but the reference points (bores and head bolts) aren't in line with the pins. So it would be imprecise. To get it good enuff to give to guy to add it to his cnc program, I wanted more precise dimensions.
     
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  13. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 4,216

    ekimneirbo

    If I were trying to do it without a factory drawing, I would use a gasket and a transfer punch to locate the holes for the dowels. The dowels relationship to each other is most important. The dowels relationship to the bores and head bolt holes is important "somewhat" . Get the dowels right and the bores should be ok.
     
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  14. If I were trying to do it without a factory drawing,,,,
    I’d just measure the block, and transfer the dimensions to the plate. It could not be any easier
     
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  15. DOCTOR SATAN
    Joined: Mar 21, 2014
    Posts: 710

    DOCTOR SATAN
    Member
    from okc

    Buy gaskets, aren't ya gonna need them to build the '92 anyhow....?
     
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  16. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 4,216

    ekimneirbo

    Normally I tend to agree with you on most things, but I respectfully have to disagree with you that its easy to measure these locations accurately at home. ;)
     
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  17. Granted, I’m assuming the bock is relatively easy to access here. ,,, and a gasket is certainly easier to maneuver than a block.
    Scribe the red lines and measure the purple then do the same for laying out the plate.
    Good eyesight is required but it’s easy. Probably way easier than doing the markup sketch on that photo

    11265F22-B8B3-422C-AB5D-4204F075D0D6.jpeg

    You might do good maybe even better with apiece of paper and a dirty finger to make a template.
     
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  18. lippy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2006
    Posts: 6,825

    lippy
    Member
    from Ks

    Why dowel holes? The plate is to simulate a cyl head being torqued down. Not to center the bores, the head studs or bolts will do that. Usually if the block has been surfaced, as it should be, there will be no dowels in it anyway at the honing stage. Lippy
     
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  19. DOCTOR SATAN
    Joined: Mar 21, 2014
    Posts: 710

    DOCTOR SATAN
    Member
    from okc

    Yeah, pull the dowels, or leave em in the block....
     
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  20. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 4,216

    ekimneirbo

    Zackly!
     
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  21. TRENDZ
    Joined: Oct 16, 2018
    Posts: 386

    TRENDZ

    Not necessary, but handy. If you are going to drill holes anyway, it doesn’t hurt one bit to put them in the correct place.
    I have a mill with a digital read out. My reason for mapping out the deck was to provide an accurate location for my o ring cutting plate, and to create my own head gaskets.
     
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  22. Beanscoot
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 3,053

    Beanscoot
    Member

    Well the precision dowel holes will allow for alignment of the torque plate within a couple thousandths, vs. relying on studs or bolts which will probably only align with ten or fifteen thousandths.
    Seems kind of unnecessary for a torque plate.

    Edit: Trendz has a very good point on this. But I would ream the dowel holes to finish size.
     
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  23. Hemi Joel
    Joined: May 4, 2007
    Posts: 1,528

    Hemi Joel
    Member
    from Minnesota

    Guys, I appreciate all the common sense advice and help very much, but in this instance the blueprint that Trenz provided was all I needed. I'll give you the whole story just so you understand why I needed that, and why I didn't just use a gasket, or measure my block, or pull the dowel pins, etc.
    I do most of my own engine build work, but I farm out the block machining, crankshaft, work, etc. that requires expensive specialized machines. I had the 392 block for my hot rod fully machined a few years back by a guy who is a great machinist, but a jerk. But he has a hone plate for a 392 Hemi. I put up with him for 2 more machine jobs, but the last dealings I had with him he screwed me, so that relationship is over.
    So I ran this motor in 2018 and did Drag Week with it. Then I took 2019 off of drag week due to some other projects and a medical thing. But I planned a bunch of improvements to the car, and to get the motor on the dyno to dial in the induction system better and to try and find more power, and took a bunch of stuff apart. And I paid a big entry fee to register the car in the Midwest Drags the first week of June 2020. Then I ended up having surgery in December, and the recovery went slower than planned, so I didn't get back out in the shop till mid February, and time was getting short to accomplish all I want to get done before the event. I pulled the motor out of the car, and pulled the intake off, and there was a lot of carbon build up on the back side of the valves from all the idling on Drag Week, and I wanted to put soft springs on the heads to check valve to piston clearance while I experiment with different cam advance settings, and maybe 1.7 intake rockers instead of the 1.5.
    So the night before I started this post, I pulled one head. I found that #5 piston had lost a circlip, and the piston pin had carved a path in the cylinder wall. So it needs a sleeve. The next day at work, I talked to a good guy local machinist who said he could squeeze it in right away since I'm now in a time crunch. But he doesn't have a plate. I told him I'd find a plate, pull down the rest of the short block and get it over there pronto. So I searched on the internet and found a place in Wisconsin who sells the plate for $364. He said he could make one the next day. I figured if I'm going to mess around with a non-mainstream engine like a 392 Hemi, maybe I should invest in my own plate, then I can go to any shop I want. So I ordered the plate, and that was right before I started this post. Because at the end of the conversation, he says to me, bye the way, it doesn't have dowel pin holes. so you have to pull your dowel pins. Or else he can order a gasket and get the locations, add them to his program, and do the holes. But it will take a couple more days. I know I had seen a blue print on here somewhere before, so I said don't delay, I'll get you the dimensions. I envisioned pulling the dowel pins with a vise grip, them being stuck, and getting all chewed up, then having to find replacements. So didn't want to go that route if this guy would drill them for no extra cost or time. I searched the internet and the HAMB for a while with no results. Still at my desk at work.
    I figured I COULD get the dimensions at home from my block or a gasket, but measuring with a ruler, straight edges, and calipers, I could be off .010, maybe more. I didn't want to give a guy bad info, especially if he is then going to sell plates with misaligned holes to the next guy. So I made this post, asking for a blueprint. Now I have it, and the plate should be here tuesday. Thanks to all! The end. :D
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2020
  24. DOCTOR SATAN
    Joined: Mar 21, 2014
    Posts: 710

    DOCTOR SATAN
    Member
    from okc

    How much will the plates he sells be, I am in Minnesota now....?
     
  25. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 23,752

    Deuces

    We use a good quality Jacobs drill Chuck to pull dowel pins out of fixture plates at work.... That saves the dowels from being chewed up... ;)
     
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  26. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 4,216

    ekimneirbo

    Sorry to hear about all the problems and hope that the answer you chose works for you. ;)
     
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  27. DOCTOR SATAN
    Joined: Mar 21, 2014
    Posts: 710

    DOCTOR SATAN
    Member
    from okc

    Any word on the plates, I have a few chryslers...
     
  28. Hemi Joel
    Joined: May 4, 2007
    Posts: 1,528

    Hemi Joel
    Member
    from Minnesota

    Doc, here is their website: https://ccaracing.com/ Give him a call, I'm sure he can set you up with whatever you need. Seems like a good guy. But I don't have the plate yet to testify as to its quality. It's $364 I think.
     
  29. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 8,442

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

    Will it be ground? Or not necessary because of using a gasket or not?
     
  30. Beanscoot
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 3,053

    Beanscoot
    Member

    I see the CCA Racing site also has some nice Oldsmobile valve covers at $110 a pair:

    [​IMG]
     
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