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392 Hemi Buildup Part 1 - 5 Speed Tremec, Sonic Race Bellhousing, Setup Details

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Bored&Stroked, May 2, 2006.

  1. I've been in the process of building a blown 392 Hemi for my 34 Coupe for the last 15 months. One of the things that I enjoy about hotrods is being able to use my own imagination and engineering skills to work through problems, come up with combinations that are different, etc..

    The following will document my complete transmission, transmission adapter, bellhousing, flywheel, clutch and throwout bearing setup . . .

    1) Transmission Adapters & Bellhousings
    When I started this project, I researched the makers of transmission adapters -- Hot Heads, PAW, Wilcap, etc.. Didn't like anything I saw. Also, due to the horsepower my engine is going to pump out -- I wanted a bellhousing that 'should' contain a clutch explosion. BUT . . . I can't stand the look and size of the typical Lakewood or McLeod steel bellhousings -- especially in a low hotrod. Heck -- you damn near have to cut the bottoms out of them so they won't drag on things! (Ever hit a bellhousing on a speed bump . . . now that really sucks!).

    Anyway - I decided to look into some circle track products -- where they want low ground clearance and form-factor is a big deal. Its taken me about 6 months to put the following combination together -- with lots of conversations with different suppliers. I figured I'd share it with you folks to potentially help you with your Hemi projects.

    Note: I'll put up a couple posts -- so you can see all the pictures.

    1) Bellhousing - Sonic/Tilton - PN 12003 - hydro-formed 1/4 steel, 10.5 max clutch size, 153 tooth Chevy ring gear. This is designed for the typical Chevy block pattern and standard transmission pattern. It is NOT SFI rated, but the 1/4 steel should do the trick.

    2) Early Hemi to Chevy Transmission Adapter - Wilcap - PN 392-350 MT F. Make sure you talk with Pat at Wilcap. Pat worked with me to setup his NC profiles to match the Sonic Bellhousing -- and you can see in the pictures that everything really looks nice . . . no big gaps or ugly overhangs like most of the adapters. Also - it's machined from billet aluminum . . . not cast crap. Also, the starter hole is on the passenger side -- it uses the mini-gear reduction Denso style starter. And as a huge bonus - the starter pocket on the Sonic bellhousing is in the correct place.

    This is the best workmanship I've seen . . . and his prices are more than fair!

    3) Early Hemi Flywheel - Wilcap - PN 392-350 MT F Steel - This flywheel is smaller than the original, and can only handle a 10.5 inch clutch. The ring gear is where it needs to be to clear the tight clearances of the Sonic bellhousing and correctly align with the starter hole. He also has it in aluminum - if you're running a REALLY light car. (I'm going with a steel flywheel and a special clutch that shaves off 6 lbs).

    4) Tremec T-5 Style Howe Hydraulic Throwout Bearing - PN 82876 - The engine, adapter, flywheel, clutch and bellhousing setup does not leave much room for a throwout bearing. I originally attempted to use a Tilton model -- but it was about 1/2 inch too long. I researched other models and found a Howe version that fits the Tremec input collar and gives me about 3/32 gap - between the throwout bearing and the diaphragm clutch teeth. You can adjust the gap with the included shims. The collapsed length of this throwout bearing in only about 1.5 inches.

    5) Hays GM Diaphragm 10.5 Inch Pressure Plate: There are two models you can choose from -- the standard steel one is PN 33-610, the special light-weight one (aluminum pressure ring) is PN 33-620. I'm going to run the lightweight version - to shave 6 lbs off th pressure plate weight. I've never ran this pressure plate before . . . well see how it works out.

    6) Hays GM Diaphragm 10.5 Inch Clutch Disk -- 1 1/8 x 26 GM M22 Spline - PN 40-121

    7) Transmission Notes: The transmission shown is a Tremec TK-3550 TKO that has been setup with the 9310 gears, steel shift forks, etc.. Also, the throwout bearing/input collar OD was turned down to match the standard GM size and the input shaft was setup for the standard 1 1/8 x 26 GM spline (like the M22 rock-crushers in the mid 60s). Also - the base bolt pattern was modified a bit to fit the standard GM bolt pattern of the Sonic bellhousing. This is a pretty beefy trans - should handle the 392 power and torque pretty well.

    I hope this post helps others . . . it would have saved me about 6 months of research and work! :D

    Okay - here come the pictures . . . in a couple different posts:

    Assembled-BackView copy.jpg

    Assembled-FrontBottomViw copy.jpg

    Assembled-SideView1 copy.jpg

    Assembled-SideView2 copy.jpg

    Assembled-SideView3 copy.jpg

    DensoStarterAlignment1 copy.jpg

    DensoStarterAlignment2 copy.jpg
     
    Dog_Patch likes this.
  2. Second set of pictures . . .

    FlywheelMounted copy.jpg

    HoweThrowout1 copy.jpg

    HoweThrowout2 copy.jpg

    Howe-ThrowoutAlignmentPin copy.jpg

    Howe-ThrowoutOnTranny2 copy.jpg

    Howe-ThrowoutOnTranny copy.jpg

    TiltonStarterDrive copy.jpg
     
    Dog_Patch likes this.
  3. W
    O
    W

    That is GREAT tech.

    Thank you sir, look forward to seeing how it all lines up in a 34 as I hope to do something very similar...driveline/car wise.

    Cheers,

    Drewfus
     
  4. Just out of curiosity, what is the approx. distance from the shifter to the rear of the block?

    Cheers,

    Drewfus
     

  5. Rrumbler
    Joined: Apr 4, 2006
    Posts: 79

    Rrumbler
    Member

    Good looking setup. Ain't puzzles fun??!!
     
  6. Very nice tech I have to agree. now THATS an engine /trans combo that gives the best of both worlds. Nostaligic looks and streetablilty over the long haul.

    Keep the pix a comin ....please !!

    Then get it in the car and kik ass !!

    Rat
     
  7. Bugman
    Joined: Nov 17, 2001
    Posts: 3,483

    Bugman
    Member

    Neat. I did some work with a roundy rounder not to long ago. I was amazed at the amount of cool and useful stuff circle trackers use that I didnt even know existed. Your setup makes me think I should go T56 with my blown Hemi instead of TH400.
     
  8. You're exactly right - the circle track boys have some really cool parts . . . and us hotrod boys have always been tightly linked to these types of racers. Hell, the early roadsters were primarily used for dirt track racing . . . and they adopted things like Q.C. rear ends, center steering boxes, Halibrand knock offs, etc . . . seems fitting to keep these trends alive today. I'm always amazed when I look through the catalogs for Winters, Howe, Tilton, etc..

    Tranny Choice: Yeah, I really pondered a slush box . . . but really wanted to shift and enjoy the engine and the light car. When I started down the 5-speed track, I just didn't like how everything fit together with the parts that everybody was trying to sell me - so I went down my own path. The reason I used a hydraulic throwout bearing was because I knew I'd be limited in room on the driver's side anyway - why throw mechanical clutch linkage into the mix as well. If you head down this path - you can always drop me a PM for more information. Best of luck.
     

  9. I'll measure it for you and post it back on this site -- probably later on today.

    The nice thing about the Tremec is that you have three shifter positions -- standard in the rear, mid-shift (what I have) and front shift. So - depending on what type of rod you're building, you can setup the shifter to end up just about anyplace. The Tremec trans are a bit big and are expensive -- but so is a dang old Hemi . . . so what the hell.

    I'm using an aftermarket race shifter - where the handle bolts on. I can then use a 39-style long swoop neck shifter for the nostalgia look, or something for fast shifting if I want to play a bit.
     
  10. Thanks Dale. We're building twins, blown 392/Tremec/34 coupe, can't remember if you were running a quick change, but I appreciate your post all to hell, it's has real value like you said. We'll have to swap some pics.....

    TTYL :)

    Brian
     
  11. Appreciate the post Brian . . . did those 392 rods checkout okay?

    Also - I should FINALLY have my new rocker setup from RAS this week. They're specially designed to fit the early Donovan 417 heads (which I'm running). I ordered them March of 05! I tell yah - I've learned a TON about patience when working on the weird combinations that I manage to put together. I'm going to take some pictures of the heads, rockers, etc -- probably later this week. We've put a ton or work into these heads -- to repair them from years of running on fuel cars. Also - we're hoping we can get enough water through them to cool the bastard on the street . . . guess I'll find out if it was all worth it.

    Yes - I'm running a Frankland Q.C. -- with a DPI blackgold diff and Big Ford bearings. I'll be running the Buick 45 finned drums and Bendix style brakes from Wilson welding. I really like disks - but just couldn't put them on this car (seemed all wrong).

    Keep me posted on your progess.

    Dale
     
  12. srosa707
    Joined: Jun 5, 2005
    Posts: 1,572

    srosa707
    Member
    from Sacramento

  13. Bigcheese327
    Joined: Sep 16, 2001
    Posts: 6,691

    Bigcheese327
    Member

    Wow, this is an amazing post. Can you do early Olds, Cadillac and Buick V8s next? :)

    -Dave
     
  14. Dirty2
    Joined: Jun 13, 2004
    Posts: 8,903

    Dirty2
    Member

    Very nice Tech. Thanks !!!!
     
  15. AllSteel34
    Joined: May 8, 2006
    Posts: 220

    AllSteel34
    Member

    Great stuff! I'm planning something almost identical for one of my '34s. Keep us posted on the progress!

    Chris
     
  16. Hi Guys:

    I've been waiting for the machine shop to complete some of the more complex engine machine work (special blower drive, cooling work for run the Donovan 417 heads on the street, etc).

    Anyway, I should be ready to start putting this beast together in the next month or so -- will take lots of pictures as to how I handle the front motor mounts, the mid-mounts that I'm adding at the transmission adapter (I have 1.5'' ears specifically for this purpose), etc..

    I'll do a BTTT when I'm ready . . .

    If anybody has questions, just drop me a PM.

    Dale
     
  17. srosa707
    Joined: Jun 5, 2005
    Posts: 1,572

    srosa707
    Member
    from Sacramento

    awesome post. Ill be following this one closely!
     

  18. On Tremec TKO600, the furthest rear position is 19.5 , flip it around and it's 16.750 from the block.

    The next step is what they call "mid-shift", which costs you about $280.00 for the shifter and they (or you) have to "take the trans apart" to do it....or this is what they told me anyway.


    .
     
  19. panhead_pete
    Joined: Feb 22, 2006
    Posts: 2,681

    panhead_pete
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Any updates on this?
     
  20. Phil1934
    Joined: Jun 24, 2001
    Posts: 2,717

    Phil1934
    Member

    How much lower is the oil pan than the bellhousing? Do you plan to section it?
     
  21. Abomination
    Joined: Oct 5, 2006
    Posts: 6,701

    Abomination
    Member

    Just what I was looking for!

    ~Jason
     
  22. If you need anything, let me know - I'm busy on the frame/suspension stage of the project and the engine is apart at the moment . . . so I can measure anything you need.

    Dale
     
  23. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,372

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Dale, have you started "Part 2" yet?? What's the word on this motor.

    I linked this in the "examples" thread, right? Pretty sure I did...
     
  24. I'm currently working on the frame/suspension - of course I started from scratch and decided to "roll my own". Too many things I want to do my way I guess - can't just buy things you know!

    Part 1:

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=311049

    Part 2:

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=311681


    I'll be updating this thread with information on the fabrication details of mounting the engine, trans, etc. in my 34 coupe frame . . . with the gory details of motor mounts, clutch/brake setup, shifter, firewall setback, custom lakes headers, etc.. Should be at the beginning of that stage in the next 2 months. Nothing goes as fast as I'd like!
     
  25. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,372

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I read you loud and clear Dale! 10-4, good buddy! And HELL YES that looks awesome and I love the way you organize your build threads! I'll be watching!

    Keep me posted on the 392! I think we're ALL ready to see AND HEAR this thing done!
     
  26. Abomination
    Joined: Oct 5, 2006
    Posts: 6,701

    Abomination
    Member

    How far forward can you install a shifter on that? I'm wanting to put mine in a '50 Ford 3/4 ton, and I'm needing a forward shifter location. Maybe something 6" farther forward than an S-10...

    ~Jason

     
  27. Here is a link to see the details and dimensions:

    http://www.5speedtransmissions.com/dimensions.html
     
  28. Dave L
    Joined: May 27, 2007
    Posts: 233

    Dave L
    Member
    from Idaho

    where to find that bellhousing, looked all over. seems they dont make em anymore.

    Dave
     
  29. El Jefe hemi
    Joined: Dec 19, 2017
    Posts: 8

    El Jefe hemi
    Member
    from BC Canada

    I can't find that bellhousing either. Anyone have any ideas?
     
  30. Casual 6
    Joined: May 25, 2008
    Posts: 252

    Casual 6
    Member
    from Great NW

    Maybe this one:

    The Quick Time RM-6010 bellhousing connects small block and big block Chevy engines to transmissions utilizing the GM standard pattern such as the Muncie, Saginaw, Borg Warner T10 and Tremec TKO transmissions. This bellhousing is not S.F.I. certified which is required by many sanctioning bodies for cars running 11.49 or faster in the quarter mile. This bellhousing is a universal fit bellhousing and is not vehicle specific. The Quick Time bellhousings are produced using a unique spin forming process which results in a very high strength material. This high material strength allows the Quick Time bellhousings to be light weight while maintaining the protection you desire.
    Features:
    • Patent on 16 points of Bellhousing Design & Process
    • Designed For Use With Hydraulic Throw Out Bearing
    • Fits Up To A 153 Tooth Flywheel And 10.5 in Clutch
    • Requires Use Of Compact / Mini Starter
    • Transmission Bore Diameter 4.685 In
    • Bellhousing Depth 6.290 In
    • Weight: 18lbs
    • Include Grade 8 Hardware
    • Made In The USA
     

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