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Technical 39 Pontiac King pin disassembly ?

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by AGELE55, Dec 1, 2021.

  1. AGELE55
    Joined: Jan 4, 2018
    Posts: 398

    AGELE55
    Member

    Pulling the front end apart for clean, paint and lube. How do I get the king pins out? It looks to be a steel pin driven in vice a retaining bolt? Do I simply drive it out? Any hints, secrets, advice, do’s, don’ts, ….? I’ll include a pic of the pin from front and rear. 122EBB46-DF26-4F4E-8518-43E94FECF1A3.jpeg 04B5CCF1-D359-473D-8FB1-5C5690B7E7D1.jpeg
     
  2. Hard to see in your pics but that lock pin usually has a taper on one end which is the end that inserted into the spindle, the taper "locks" itself against a similar machined edge on the king pin and effectively "locks" the king pin in position....removal of the lock pin is by examining each side, try to find the side that shows marks from being hammered into place, removal is by using a drift on the OPPOSITE side, which usually will show the machined"taper" (if used), generally just a couple of good solid wacks on the correct side will get the pin loose, maybe squirt a small amount of WD40 or similar.....
    ............once the lock pin is out then you tap the king pin out from the top or bottom depending on the clearance with steering arms etc.........there appears to be the small plugs still there which will need to be removed either by using a small screwdriver to lever them out or by tapping the top or bottom plug enough to push the opposite plug out then tap the now visible king pin to push the other plug out then tap out the king pin ......take note of where the pin pin bearing is(bottom), also if and where any shims maybe located and keep them undamaged........
    ............now all this is from 50 yrs of playing with 1940/41 Mopar front ends which are basically the same from appearances to your 39 Poncho.......
    ......hope this helps....Andy Douglas.
     
  3. AGELE55
    Joined: Jan 4, 2018
    Posts: 398

    AGELE55
    Member

    Awesome write up. I’ll give’er a go tomorrow. What could possibly go wrong…lol?
     
  4. Glenn Thoreson
    Joined: Aug 13, 2010
    Posts: 393

    Glenn Thoreson
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from SW Wyoming

    Most lock pins that I've deal with have a nut on one side of the pin. That is the smaller side of the taper. Be careful not to "mushroom" the end when removing the pin. After the pin is removed you can drive, or press, the kingpin out. Be warned - some of, if not most kingpins can be extremely difficult to remove due to decades of rust and who knows what accumulated in the axle bore. I just finished removing a Model A kingpin that took days of soaking in Blaster, heating and a 30 ton press to get 1/16" of movement per day. In my earlier days I would have thrown it in the junk pile. The other side almost fell out by itself :( Be patient....
     
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  5. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 9,579

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

  6. AGELE55
    Joined: Jan 4, 2018
    Posts: 398

    AGELE55
    Member

    Is there a likely or common direction the tapered pins are installed? From front to rear or rear to front?
     
  7. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 9,579

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    Based on the the photo in the link I posted. It seems you'd chase it out from the steering arm side.
    [​IMG]
     
  8. From my Mopar experience there doesn't seem to be a common direction the lock pins are installed from as, on my exp. it would depend on the angle that the kingpin recess can be wedged by the lock pin, usually once the king pin is installed at the correct spot in the stub axle that allows the lock pin hole to view the king pin recess then that will generally determine from which side the lock pin should be installed...............unless of course that there is a specific reason that it should be from the front or back........which could be caused by having a machined area on the spindle for a nut to help pull the lock pin through deeper...............think Fords had the nut arrangement, not seen that on Mopars tho'........as mentioned I'd squirt some WD40 in there, try to clean the area as much as possible to help to see which way to wack and once determined the direction try to make sure the drift you use is a good fit onto the lock pin and use as big a hammer or mallet that you can swing, generally all it takes is one good wack and once loosened it should be easy..............lol.........in theory..........lol...........andyd
     
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  9. AGELE55
    Joined: Jan 4, 2018
    Posts: 398

    AGELE55
    Member

    Well, I’m all coffee’ed up for the day, so I’ll head to the shop in a bit and figure something out. Oddly enough, I was big on bicycles in my youth and installed many crank cotters as they were called… C52A7EE3-5F51-4828-8C91-80E03EE24ACC.jpeg
     
  10. AGELE55
    Joined: Jan 4, 2018
    Posts: 398

    AGELE55
    Member

    Ok, I got the first pin out. After cleaning it up better, I could actually see the flat surface protruding on the back side. So all I had to do from the front side was whack it, smack it, heat it, drill it, bang it, cuss it, smack some more, drill some more…. Eventually, it gave up the fight. I assume I can find new pins some place…
    Now the next challenge is the kingpins. It looks like each end has been peeled with a chisel. Hmmm… 5454127F-E221-433D-8177-2DB363CFFF44.jpeg EB6D3985-78E0-4217-ABDC-60D161CB38E5.jpeg 218AA0F2-8C61-4A84-AFBE-CBF1C5F07BF2.jpeg 035FFF3D-2402-4460-9172-63ACC3D2D0C1.jpeg
     
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  11. AGELE55
    Joined: Jan 4, 2018
    Posts: 398

    AGELE55
    Member

    Success. But now I feel like a dog that caught the bus. It’s apart, now what? The king pin is corroded, the bearing is pretty crusty, the wedge pin is boogered, both end plugs are history, and what appears to be a shim measuring .005” is toast.
    Where do I find parts for a 39 Poncho spindle? BAAB0517-7E5E-4701-8E62-B6FCE8B72CB9.jpeg
     
  12. patterg2003
    Joined: Sep 21, 2014
    Posts: 729

    patterg2003

  13. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 9,579

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

  14. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,215

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

    Gees and I was be a smart ass and say NAPA.
     
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  15. oldsman41
    Joined: Jun 25, 2010
    Posts: 1,556

    oldsman41
    Member

    My avatar 41 olds same animal got the stuff from kanter but fcrc looks like good stuff also. Good luck
     
    AGELE55 likes this.
  16. Congratulations.........lol........BTW.......... why do you want parts for the 39 pontiac spindle?.............or do you intend to replace the upper & lower outer bushes and pins?...........they would generally be sold as a set, ie, bush, pin, seals & nut...........
    ..............as for the king pins.......
    ..........a "set" would generally be as follows......... 2 kingpins,4 stub axle bushes, 2 king pin bearings, maybe 2-4 shims, 4 small welch plugs, possibly 2-4 zerks or grease nipples and lastly 2 of your new favourites, the lock or cotter pins..........this would be a "complete king pin set" but over the years I've seen just the king pins,bushes and lock or cotter pins sold as a set......depends on the seller....I'd contact a Pontiac club or POCI to get info on Poncho parts retailers......surely there must be some...........andyd
     
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  17. AGELE55
    Joined: Jan 4, 2018
    Posts: 398

    AGELE55
    Member

    Well color me stoopid. I prematurely assumed these would be difficult to track down. I’m still figuring out this whole fat fender world. Who knew I could go down to the local Autozone and find parts for an 82 year old car?
    Thanks for the help steering this rudderless boat. :confused:
     
    firstinsteele likes this.
  18. AGELE55
    Joined: Jan 4, 2018
    Posts: 398

    AGELE55
    Member

    Now just a curiosity question..
    I’m finding an abundance of non functioning grease fittings that I’ll need to replace. The interesting thing is they have no hex base to remove them. Vive grips won’t spin them, so I assume they’re pressed in?
    As Insaid, just curious. I’ll drill and tap for new fittings. 4A1D5387-11FF-4B7B-A63A-DB65AD9D2D98.jpeg
     
  19. connielu
    Joined: Apr 21, 2019
    Posts: 148

    connielu
    Member
    1. A-D Truckers

    Likely they are the drive in type.
     
  20. connielu
    Joined: Apr 21, 2019
    Posts: 148

    connielu
    Member
    1. A-D Truckers

  21. Before you replace the grease nipples try inserting a piece of stiff wire into the hole to clear them of hardened grease, maybe clean out the inside of the bush completely anyway so you know that you are starting with no old grease in there..........I've not seen those pressed in nipples before.......maybe a specific brand thing..........andyd
     
  22. AGELE55
    Joined: Jan 4, 2018
    Posts: 398

    AGELE55
    Member

    20211212_145902.jpg New issue...
    I just pressed in the new kingpin bushings. Prior to installation, the pins were a slip fit into the bushing. After installation, the pins would have to be hammered in. I'm guessing this is normal? Should I ream the bushing ID to match the pin OD?
    Pins are measuring .856.
     
  23. ottoman
    Joined: May 4, 2008
    Posts: 325

    ottoman
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    Yes they need to be honed or reamed to size. If you ream them you need the cone to center the ream off the other bushing.
     
  24. Doug G
    Joined: Jul 30, 2015
    Posts: 32

    Doug G
    Member
    from Manheim Pa

    Warm, I said warm the part with the bushings. Stick the pins in the freezer overnite and they will probably slide right into place.
     
  25. hoop
    Joined: Mar 21, 2007
    Posts: 615

    hoop
    Member

    They may slide into place,but when they are the same temperature you will not be able to move them.May be impossible to steer.
     
    Truck64 likes this.
  26. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 5,237

    Truck64
    Member
    from Ioway

    They don't need very much removed, just the high spots, but they need honed
     
  27. Papa in NC
    Joined: Nov 19, 2021
    Posts: 25

    Papa in NC

    And NOT honed with a brake cylinder hone, or similar. The correct way is with a reamer/ hone that extends thru both bushings, keeping the cutting stone(s) in alignment during the process. There are still shops around that do truck work. They can handle it.
     
  28. Glenn Thoreson
    Joined: Aug 13, 2010
    Posts: 393

    Glenn Thoreson
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from SW Wyoming

    They must be reamed to size after installation. Best tool: what's called a line reamer. It goes all the way through both bushings to keep them in line. Proper size can be determined by what's called a "push fit".
    The pin can be inserted in the spindle with a push from your thumb. Be sure you clean the center bore of all rust and crud before installing the spindle. The center bore should allow the king pin to go in with a snug fit and might require tapping or pressing in. Put the pin in the freezer overnight. Be sure the notch lines up with the lock pin hole. No room for error there. The lock pins look like modern GM parts and might fit. Be sure you get the lock nuts with the pins. Shim any up/down play. The spindle should turn smoothly with no tight spots.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2021

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