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Technical 38-40 Ford Sedan EMS Tool Tray TECH

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Dan Hay, Feb 19, 2016.

  1. Anyone ever install a tool tray in a 38-40 Ford sedan? I called EMS and they gave me some general instructions, but I'd like to have more specific pointers, and pictures of installation or this part already installed a plus.

    I'm a novice and would like as much information as possible before I start cutting. Thanks! IMG_4753.JPG IMG_4760.JPG
     
  2. patterg2003
    Joined: Sep 21, 2014
    Posts: 620

    patterg2003

  3. patterg2003
    Joined: Sep 21, 2014
    Posts: 620

    patterg2003

    Sorry I did not realize that you had this on your Varmit thread. Wish you well in your quest for an answer. I would think that the tool tray fit up in the sedan would be similar to a coupe with the difference only in the shape of the tail pan under the trunk. I have read that 2 tudor sedan quarters have been used to repair convertible cabriolet quarters whose fit up is also similar to the coupe. The floor pans are fairly universal in the sedans, coupes with jump seats and have minor revisions for the coupe without jump seats & cabriolets but the metal intersections and attachment would be common with a different angle at the tail pan.
    Glenn
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2016
    Dan Hay likes this.
  4. patterg2003
    Joined: Sep 21, 2014
    Posts: 620

    patterg2003

    Here is some floor information that I have accumulated learning how to put the floors back into my car. Some one got ahead of themselves and cut most the floor out leaving it a puzzle like your trunk floor. This Dennis Carpenter link allows a person to zoom in on the floor details.There is good detailed views on the Dennis Carpenter site in the assembly of their coupe body.
    http://dennis-carpenter.com/complete-floor-pan-assembly/p/01A-7711135-SET/
    These show how the floors are assembled and some on how they meet the body. This is one of the reasons that I liked the views that The 39 Guy put into his thread. The attached may or may not be helpful.
    It would be good if you were to share your success & challenges in your Varmit thread. I have enjoyed your work put into your thread as well.
    all the best,
    Glenn
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Feb 19, 2016
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  5. The 39 guy
    Joined: Nov 5, 2010
    Posts: 2,875

    The 39 guy
    Member

    Well Dan since no one else is stepping up I will try to offer a few tips on what I would do.

    You have some remnants of the old pan still on the car. You can use them for a reference of where your new panel should go.

    Bolt or clamp the new tail pan in place temporarily so that you can remove it as needed for fitment of the tray. keep your trunk lid hinged and ready to drop for frequent fitting to make sure every thing is fitting as it should.

    Mark a center-line and tack a piece of round or flat steel stock to what is left of the floor board. Mark a center line on the new tool tray and the on the new tail pan.

    Using the center-line you can measure to each side and determine how much you need to add or remove to make the tray fit in the hole.

    If in doubt about how much to cut, make small cuts and work your way into the final cut.

    This may be a good time to say measure at least twice before you cut.

    It looks like you will need to buy or fabricate a few more pieces to complete the project. Maybe some one can at post a few pictures of their 39-40 ford sedan trunk to help us out here. I did a bunch of searching on the inter web and found lots of coupe stuff but no sedan trunk pictures.

    Well that's all I have for tonight.

    Sam
     
    patterg2003 likes this.
  6. Thanks Sam and Glenn, I think I've got a plan of attack in my head. Mainly I'll be using cardboard to get the contours correct on the rear of the body, then transfer it to the tray piece.
     
  7. ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1455981317.955477.jpg
    Here is the EMS tool tray in the stock location. The guy at EMS did tell me this, that the entire tray needs to be moved rearward to make a smaller tool tray but larger trunk flat surface. I suppose one could make pieces to fill in this area but going to continue to trim and move it rearward to fit the body and tail pan better.
     
  8. john worden
    Joined: Nov 14, 2007
    Posts: 1,620

    john worden
    Member
    from iowa

    The 39 guy's advice is right on. I will emphasize that perfect trunk lid fit before welding the new panels in place is critical.
     
    Dan Hay likes this.
  9. Yeah the trunk lid is hinged. I also noticed the tool tray tends to spread the quarters apart so there are gaps in the tail pain. I'll just keep trimming little by little
     
  10. ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1455988027.893813.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1455988045.474249.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1455988057.606985.jpg
    Getting closer
     
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  11. The 39 guy
    Joined: Nov 5, 2010
    Posts: 2,875

    The 39 guy
    Member

    Thanks for the pictures Dan! Looks like you are well on your way! Have Fun!

    Sam
     
    k5hart, patterg2003 and Dan Hay like this.
  12. Ruiner
    Joined: May 17, 2004
    Posts: 4,145

    Ruiner
    Member

    I'm glad you're documenting this in case I need to redo mine...
     
    Dan Hay likes this.
  13. In summary, see below that this about as good as it's going to get for me. I'll have to tack a few small pieces here and there to fill gaps due to my sloppy cutting. However, there's a gap between the wheel wells on both sides that I did not create. It looks like the piece could stand to be a half inch wider at least.

    I'm surprised with a the sedans running around that nobody makes a tool tray for a sedan. If I were restoring this car I'd be pretty upset with the fitment since the dimensions are off for a sedan. As it is no one will notice and it's fine for an old hot rod.

    One more thing, since this tray is not as wide as original, the area that the body bolts go through to the rear crossmember is pretty far off, and will need a piece fabricated to bolt this down (see pic) ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1456004898.960837.jpg
    My finger is pointing at the flat surface on the tray that should sit directly on to of the rusty Crossmember on the left. This gives you an idea of how much rearward I had to move it.

    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1456004298.311168.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1456004320.627496.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1456004397.627189.jpg
     
  14. The 39 guy
    Joined: Nov 5, 2010
    Posts: 2,875

    The 39 guy
    Member

    Here are some pictures of my 39 sedan convertible tool tray. I really don't know how similar two cars are in the trunk area. I had been looking at the wood covers they sell for the sedans though and noticed that the covers for the sedans are much wider than the coupes.
    IMG_9751R.jpg
    This tool pan was hand fabbed many years ago by a previous owner. I like the shape of it and I will probably replace it with a similar piece.
    IMG_9750R.jpg
    I don't know if you have any of these supports or not Dan.
    IMG_9749R.jpg
    IMG_9748R.jpg
    IMG_9747R.jpg
    IMG_9746R.jpg
    This car is missing the latch support bracket also. I don't know if these pictures are of any help to you Dan but they may help someone else looking at the thread.
     
    Dan Hay likes this.
  15. ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1456010992.923044.jpg

    This is an original sedan brace. You can see here how much the tray is closer to the back of the car.
     
  16. @The 39 guy I have to pause and say the convertible sedan is my favorite body style.
     
  17. The 39 guy
    Joined: Nov 5, 2010
    Posts: 2,875

    The 39 guy
    Member

    Although the 39 convertible coupe or cabriolet is my favorite I have to say if I ever get this CS done it may just have a chance to take that number one spot. As soon as we get Don's Mercury together the CS will finally get my full attention. I just hope I have enough health and money left to get it done.

    Sam
     
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  18. The 39 guy
    Joined: Nov 5, 2010
    Posts: 2,875

    The 39 guy
    Member

    I was just thinking I forgot to mention that you might want to make sure your fuel tank still fits..... I am sure it will... but just saying it's always wise to check things like that before you weld stuff together. Hope you are having a fun day !
     
    Dan Hay likes this.
  19. 40Standard
    Joined: Jul 30, 2005
    Posts: 5,795

    40Standard
    Member
    from Indy

    nice job on fitting the tool tray on a sedan
     
  20. tim troutman
    Joined: Aug 6, 2012
    Posts: 286

    tim troutman
    Member

    [its been awhile since I installed this I think I put it in the factory location then wielded a piece on the rear then seam sealed it to the tail pan
     

    Attached Files:

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  21. @tim troutman I'm thinking now that I should have done it that way, but what's done is done, and it'll be fine for this old hot rod.
     
  22. Bringing this up from the dead. I'm trying to repair the mess someone else did to my car.
    [​IMG]
    Do you (or anyone) have a picture of how the center brace attaches to the tailpan?
     
  23. Do you mean the piece that the Decklid striker attaches to? If so, it's welded to the step and on one end, and the tailpan weatherstrip channel on the other end. I'll take a pic when I get home.

    Your's doesn't look too bad to me.
     
  24. Yes the piece the striker attaches to. I bought a repo from Bob Drake and my tail pan is a really old body shop repair panel. I'm not so sure how accurate it is. I don't feel like the two pieces mate well. But I'm not sure I had the tailpan mocked up correctly. The biggest issue with mine is everything was cut away and the bottom of the passenger quarter was mangled so I'm struggling with getting it mocked up correctly. The picture I posted is after I put the passenger quarter back in shape the best I could to make a template. Working on making that piece now. Thanks for any pics or help you can give me! How is your's coming along?
     
  25. [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Mine needs to be shortened for reasons explained earlier in the thread, but this is how it attaches to everything. I still had my old one to compare.


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  26. That's perfect! Thanks very much.
     
  27. theHIGHLANDER
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 8,059

    theHIGHLANDER
    Member

    This is kool. The only rust repair I need on mine. Thanks fellas...
     
    Dan Hay likes this.
  28. ems customer service
    Joined: Nov 15, 2006
    Posts: 2,563

    ems customer service
    Member

    hey dan, your no novice, your repair is as good as any pro, with your thread and photos we will be able to guide others into this install. ( your the first to do it this good and document it)

    thanks

    the ems guy
     
    bct, Dan Hay and scrap metal 48 like this.

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