I'm looking at buying a 351c windsor engine for my f100. it runs but it has a lot of miles on it so i'd want to get it rebuilt, but was wondering how much do shops usually charge to rebuild something like that? He is asking about 700$ for the engine., thanks everyone!
It makes a lot of difference which engine your talking about ford made 3 351 in the 60-70s a 351 c denotes a cleveland engine which is probably the most desireable 351 w which isthe windsor engine which Im asuming is the one your dealing on. Last and probably least is the 351 m which the smogged out low compression edition of the the equally crappy 400. Im guessing it will probably cost around $1500.00 to overhaul any one of the 3.
im sorry i didn't mean to put the c.. its a windsor. it's 700 for the whole engine, and a rebuilt c6 tranny. comes with intake manifold, edlebrock carb, aluminum serpentine drive.
$1,500 to overhaul will get you a running engine, but nothing spicy. Paying $700 for a core is high. Once you've got it apart, it starts to add up with boring, turning that crank, sonic testing the crank, new pistons, rings, bearings, rod and main bolts (don't use the old ones), plus new high-volume oil pump, timing chain kit, new lifters and push rods, new camshaft, a valve job (hoping no valve replacements or new valve guides), tight distributor (get a '77 or later to eliminate the points), and all the usual ancillary stuff like a new water pump, belts, hoses, thermostat, etc. Oh, yeah, just a barebones stocker will still cost plenty. My advice: Build a strong bottom end, put on the heads that came with it, drive it and save up for some aftermarket heads that breathe. Then go sbc hunting.
I wouldnt say a cleveland is more desireable. Definitely harder and more expensive to get speed parts for. The price of an engine like that will be totally dependant on the year of the block (if the block is a 70-74 windsor its much more desireable as it has thicker main webs and can handle very high hp numbers, guys pay top dollar for them for stroker and boosted applications). If its a later non-roller block (mid 70's to late 80's) its less desireable. A 69' block is a little bit of a bastard because it has a slightly shorter deck height than all the later blocks, making piston selection a little tricky and can cause a problem if the block needs to be decked at all. Late model roller cam 351w's from the 90's on are good foundations for builds as well as the roller cams free up quite a bit of "free" horsepower. Also, you dont want a windsor thats been overbored too much. The cylinder walls are relatively thin and you need to sonic check wall thicknesses if you want to bore much over .040", so it would be worth while to check into if its ever been bored, and if so how much as the block may not be able to be bored any more.
He actually has gt40 heads, that breathe a little better that he will throw in, plus the stock heads.. its a late 80's engine.. i have him at about 450.00 for the whole engine. ill post some pics
i mostly want the engine for a daily driver.. nothing to exciting. just something that will get up and go
If you don't need an overbore that will save you a lot of money right there . Depending on what machine work you have done to the block , crank , heads and rods , that can run you from $700 to $1500+ alone . New pistons on the cheap side is $200 to $300 , rings $30 to $50 , new cam $100 to $125 , lifters $60 , timing chain $50 , oil pump & shaft $35 , gasket set $60 to $100 , new spark plugs $25 , new wires $35 , water pump $50 , Clevite 77 bearings for crank and rod $80 to $100. Now that is if you do all the tear down and rebuild yourself . Then you have to consider all the little parts and new oil and filter times 2 if you use a flat tap cam . New hoses and so on . Never short cut anything when rebuilding an engine . Remember to use good quality , name brand parts so your engine will last ! If you don't need a re bore then about $1200 to $1500 depending what parts you replace and brand . Re bore then $1800 to $2000 . If you can get a cheap rebuilt engine then you have cheap parts installed and some parts were re-used ! That's a waste of money ! There is no such thing as a good cheap rebuild if you do it the right way so the engine will last you ! I can get a good 351c engine that was torn down for inspection and ready to go back together for less than $400 ! All it needs is a gasket set . Just my opinion and experience . Retro Jim
If you can get the engine with the GT40 heads then it is worth it. The gt40 heads by themselves are worth at least $300. You can get do a stock rebuild for around $900-1000 See if the engine is a roller cam block.
"sonic testing the crank?? Holy cow he wants a daily driver. Why not just rebuild it as stock? I,ve built many SBF, 352's,390's,400's and a 292. Have never bored out, replaced pistons or crank. Just new stock bearings,rings, gaskets & T. chains. Hell, I've never even filed the ring gaps. Never had one knock or smoke. Most were rebuilt in my driveway.
Thank you for understanding my usuage! i just want a runner. something that will get me where i want, with a little powere when i want it
Even $ 450 for a core 351 is pretty high. I recently bought a 94 351 roller cam motor, complete, for $ 400. I am going to put it a daily driver Fox Mustang, and have it in the machine shop right now. The machining bill will be about $ 1000.00, and I figure another grand for the parts to put it together. In some respects I would have been better off buying a crate motor, but once I had the motor I was committed. It gets expensive when you start with a core and build it up from there, but at least you know what you have when you are done. Don
Methinks somebody reads a lot more magazines than builds engines- that was a good one If you're getting GT40 heads, a small-block C6, serp drive, intake, carb etc with it, that's more than $700 right there. A nice Windsor is a very torquey engine that pulls real hard in the midrange. My old one in my 69 Mach1 had 104K on it when I retired it, and was still running consistent 13.50s on plain street tires. Might be in pretty good shape, and beware that a machine shop will usually try to check off every task on a build sheet, when a lot of stuff isn't really needed for a cruiser
You mentioned that it also comes with a rebuilt C6 transmission. If the trans is indeed a C6, and you get the GT40 heads, 700 isn't a bad price at all. The heads are a nice upgrade over almost all of the stock heads for a 351W, and a C6 with a smallblock bellhousing is pretty desirable. If you have no plans for getting too crazy with power out of the engine, a C4 would be a plenty strong enough transmission, and you could get a pretty decent price for the C6. Another thing to be considered is what year the motor is. I have a prepped 351W block from a '69 Mach 1. With the casting code that it has, that block is worth as much as a strong running complete engine with a less desireable code.
That was my main motivation to get the motor, was the tranny. This is my first Ford, and first engine that i'm taking on alone. just turned 18 so figured why not learn more! And i know the Tranny is worth a little, and the engine runs good, just has a lot of miles. So hopefully this works out well. thanks for the comments! I'm going to be asking a lot of questions, being that I don't know too many people around my area that work/ know or have the desire to learn about this stuff or give any tips.. thanks again!
You say it runs- did it run pretty well and not use oil? Those Windsors are pretty tough- if it runs pretty well, maybe leave it be and putt it for a while- one of the first things my gramps taught me was if it ain't broke, don't fix it
Down next to the starter will be some numbers stamped in the block. Those will tell you what year it is. They are right above the oil pan and a few inches in front of the starter. Don
It all depends on what you are wanting to do with the motor, and the condition of the motor. If the motor runs fairly well, and does not show any signs of burning oil, or low compression in a cylinder, I'd just put it in the car and drive it. If you are just wanting a engine to put in your project to enjoy some road time, no sense rebuilding a good running motor for a street cruiser if everything checks out. Now, if you were going to take this car to the drag strip, or some other racing, then I would start thinking about a rebuild and maybe upgrade parts where needed. It all comes down to what you are wanting to do with engine, and what the engine was originally built for. If the motor runs well, and checked out in all areas, I'd just clean it up, repaint it, maybe buy new dress up items, (valve covers, air cleaner, etc.) and enjoy it until it needed a rebuild. If the engine fits into your what you plan on doing with the car, why spend the money to rebuild a motor that all ready runs well. Just my 2 cents worth, to each his own.
Finally, someone who read the posts.... Yes, if the C6 was truly rebuilt, and the Edelbrock carb is a good one, the price is right.
One note re; 351 W's.... the 69 blocks have the center main locking tab located opposite of the other years,.... Found this out, when I went to install them. Easy to exchange....but something to note, when buying your parts. Torquey engine, yes, and the iron case C4 stands up to it very nicely. 4TTRUK
I got the '95 B-58 "Lightning" version in my Fox car with the X-303 roller in it plus some aftermarket "canted valve" or should I say twisted wedge heads.... The engine is topped off with a Vic Jr. intake and a "Gold Claw" BG carb... That car scares the shit out of me everytime I fire it up!
My Son just bought me an Edelbrock Performer RPM intake for it for a Christmas gift, so I guess now I'm going to have to put some aluminum heads on mine. Glad to hear you like yours. I'm probably going to run the same X303 cam you have, we have one in my 331 stroker and in my Son's 306 sbf and it makes as much hp as I will ever need. I've seen 8 grand with it when I got busy and forgot to look at the tach, but 7000 is where I normally shift it. Some people feel there are better cams out there, and maybe there are, but Ford Racing did a good job on the 303 cams as far as I can tell. Don
Glad to see you've decided against running an SBC in your truck! I built my 351W with all new parts except for the rods and crank and had about a $1000 spent including a fancy new aluminum intake and 4bbl carb. Then I spent available "spare" hours cleaning, cleaning, cleaning, and cleaning and measuring and balancing and cleaning and machining and measuring and cleaning and measuring... Its alot of work. Shop around and you'll get quotes from a few hundred dollars to over a pound of hundred dollar bills for the machine/assembly work. Some will be bullshit and some will be for full tilt racing engines. A couple guys have pretty much hit the nail on the head with their estimates... Once the reciepts are totalled, $2000 is a pretty decent figure to consider for a "stock" rebuilt engine, considering you can easily drop $4000 on a new one from Ford.
I would higly recommend running a c4 behind it instead of the c6. A c4 with very minimal work will handle gobs of horsepower. C6's are HUGE, and heavy compared to a c4. A c6 will also rob alot more horsepower due to the larger and heavier internal components than a c4.
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