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Hot Rods 351 Ford Horsepower

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Boneyard51, Nov 6, 2018.

  1. deathrowdave
    Joined: May 27, 2014
    Posts: 3,518

    deathrowdave
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from NKy

    The W block with C or M head is a great stump pullin engine . The 4V heads will make you near Boss302 visual effects . I build a few Street Boss 302 with M 2v heads and 4V intake . They were smaller stock cube and did a fine job and I even had a dope ask me what kinda drive does that BBC have to get dist in front . I told him it was special from a boat , it runs bass ackards also .
     
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  2. Beanscoot
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 3,053

    Beanscoot
    Member

    Could you provide details about that intake?
     
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  3. deathrowdave
    Joined: May 27, 2014
    Posts: 3,518

    deathrowdave
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from NKy

    It was aftermarket , I have used so many and time pssses . It was Edlebrock “ Street Boss “ just for this application . If you use 4 v heads and 302 block OEM Boss 302 is what you need .
     
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  4. deathrowdave
    Joined: May 27, 2014
    Posts: 3,518

    deathrowdave
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from NKy

    96F2C8B1-288A-48B6-93B3-36C420FD9067.png Check on some of the Mustang sites this was a common swap years ago and worked great , it does involve some water passage work , but very simple at home stuff . This is the intake for the 351W swap to C or M 2v heads
     
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  5. Beanscoot
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 3,053

    Beanscoot
    Member

    Okay, that is the old B-A Ford "Street Boss" or "Track Boss", the former being suited to 2V heads and the latter for 4V, if I remember right.
     
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  6. LM14
    Joined: Dec 18, 2009
    Posts: 1,936

    LM14
    Member Emeritus
    from Iowa

    B&A intakes were only great because they were available, had some severe flow and reversion issues.

    I also still have adaptors to go from 2V heads to Cleveland intakes on the 9.5 Windsor deck height. They work but not the best answer. 2 sets of gaskets needed and silicone. Have one for sale if interested.

    Edelbrock intake only works with 2V heads. It's a dual plane so take it for what it's worth.

    We ran a 9.2 deck G351 Motorsports block with closed chamber Cleveland 4V heads for a couple years in a steel head dirt late model class. Made good power but custom pistons, heavy engine and lots of valvetrain issues. Loved a huge carb and still pulled well off the corners.

    Probably the best steel head engines we had were G351 or 351W blocks and World Products Windsor JR heads. Cut for 2.02/1.60 valves, ported and a slight cut to get compression up. Better compression and valve/runner ratio than Windsor Sr heads for us. Off the shelf pistons, valvetrain and intakes. I prefer to work with flat top pistons so the flame doesn't get blocked so bad. Flattops with small combustion chambers.

    Cleveland blocks need oil work to live. Also harder to find if you are racing them. Stay away from 351W roller cam blocks unless you can inspect before buying, known for cracking in lifter valley.

    Best intake was Victor Jr with the Pro Products Hurricane a close second. Also have an adaptor plate to run a 302W intake on a 351W block deck height. Lets you run the Parker Funnel Web intake. Really not worth the work but it's for sale, too.

    SPark
     
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  7. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 6,440

    Boneyard51
    Member

    Thanks Spark, that’s the kind of info we need. We are thinking about some of those things.
    We were thinking about the B-A but the Edlebrock is cheaper and supposed to be better. We can use all the experience we can get.


    Bones
     
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  8. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 6,213

    sunbeam
    Member

    The street boss was a dual plane track boss single plane both for 2v heads I had a track boss aussi head motor in my tiger.
     
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  9. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 12,592

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

  10. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 6,440

    Boneyard51
    Member

    Ok, we are having the engine built, Clevor, 351w, Australia 2v heads, unequal cam, fabbed headers, Edlebrock intake.
    We may have to run a 500 Holley two barrel on this engine and it’s limited to 6200 rpm. Assuming 100% volumetric efficiencies, that calculates to about 640 cfm.
    Haven’t had any experience modifying a 500. Any recommendations?
    Thanks
    Edit: there is a lot of restrictions on modifying the venturis.


    Bones
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2018
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  11. FrozenMerc
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 3,092

    FrozenMerc
    Member

    Remember that Holley rates the flow rates of its 2 barrel carbs at 3 inches of Mercury, not the 1.5 inches typically used on 4 barrels. Depending on the manifold vacuum your engine produces at WOT, that carb may be sized just right.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2018
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  12. Beanscoot
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 3,053

    Beanscoot
    Member

    Also, you will not have 100% volumetric efficiency, so adjust down accordingly.
     
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  13. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 6,213

    sunbeam
    Member

    Run a predator they're only a 1 barrel I see guys running Quick Fuel Ar3312 in 2 barrel classes
     
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  14. LM14
    Joined: Dec 18, 2009
    Posts: 1,936

    LM14
    Member Emeritus
    from Iowa

    You're not going to like the 500 on the Cleveland heads. Absolutely no bottom end, will be a dog off the corners. They really don't come alive until upper RPM and your rules won't let you get there. Bd combination of parts and rules. Really should look at the Windsor JR heads for the 500 carb.
    SPark
     
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  15. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 6,440

    Boneyard51
    Member

    The 500 two barrel will be a dog at low rpm, but would come alive at high rpm? Seems backwards to me. Not arguring, just trying to understand.

    The decision maker, says we will run a four barrel..... but the way I read the rules, they’re going to make us run a two barrel.... guess we will see what we run for sure this Spring.

    The rules are heavily biased toward Chevy, we are both Ford lovers at heart. Wanting to go down and have some fun!

    Bones
     
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  16. Situation normal then.:rolleyes:
     
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  17. 41rodderz
    Joined: Sep 27, 2010
    Posts: 6,540

    41rodderz
    Member
    from Oregon

    Lol. My Dad and i went down Charlotte a couple of years ago touring the Nascar shops for a couple days. I walked into Yates/Roush front door. There was about 3 engines on display . They told that's all I am going to see.:D. So top secret you would have thought it was area 51:p
     
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  18. 41rodderz
    Joined: Sep 27, 2010
    Posts: 6,540

    41rodderz
    Member
    from Oregon

    :D well there goes my thoughts. So they check with a go/ no go gauge ?
     
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  19. The inherent design of the Cleveland intake and exhaust runners dictate the backwards thinking, minimal low RPM torque High RPM HP. One way to move the torque band lower is to destroke the 351 to a 331. This also allows extremely higher RPM range where the HP is made. Harder on parts but in, say a 1/8th mile drag strip faster than a Windsor engine can reach it's optimum operating RPM. Experience on a 1/8th mile strip resulted in mid 5 second times with a relative mild cam and minimal 2 BBL head work with stock valves, albeit 6:50 something rear end gears.
     
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  20. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 6,440

    Boneyard51
    Member

    I think they do. The rules say that the casting flash has to be visible, or something like that. There’s about a zillion rules and and three different possible engines to chose from. It’s going to be an experience!


    Bones
     
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  21. LM14
    Joined: Dec 18, 2009
    Posts: 1,936

    LM14
    Member Emeritus
    from Iowa

    What I was trying to say is the 2bbl on Cleveland heads would be a dog. Ever fill a garbage can with a drinking straw? You will not feed the Cleveland heads well. Cleveland heads, even 2V versions, work better at high RPM's. Large ports, low velocity fuel flows. You don't get to run high RPM's so why carry the extra weight and valvetrain issues? You would be much better off with an aftermarket inline head with a smaller runner design and slightly smaller valves (think Windsor JR for smaller runners and combustion chambers). We ran a 351" Clevor years ago on a dirt late model. 4V closed chamber heads. Heavy, valvetrain issues (we ran the best stuff available and used stud girdles) and we ran a 980cfm 4V on it (biggest thing out there not being a Dominator at the time). Made great power but was expensive to keep alive and we had to wind it. We came off the corner at 4500 and hit 8900-9000 going into the corner. Every time it broke it was coming off the gas going into the corner. Popped valves apart every time. Didn't matter what brand valve we used, the angles took their toll on valve guides, too. It was short on air, we had it on the dyno several times. It wanted more carb. The 2V heads would be a little better but still overkill for your combination. The Cleavor likes air and fuel. If you do decide to build one, use the Aussie 2V closed chamber heads and get .040 quench, it's an absolute necessity. More quench will kill all your power and make it even more sluggish. Open chamber heads tend to detonate no matter what fuel you run.

    SPark
     
  22. atch
    Joined: Sep 3, 2002
    Posts: 5,625

    atch
    Member

    I don't know squat about Ford engines, but as Smokey said "there are two types of racers; cheaters and losers."

    Not that I condone cheating or anything.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2018
  23. We had 302 Clevelands for many years alongside the 351 versions. I'm not overly clued in on the specs though.
     
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  24. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 6,440

    Boneyard51
    Member

    Ok, I get what you’re saying. We do have the Aussie heads. The decision maker is going ahead with the engine. I’m just a helper/ advisor, we’re going to do it his way. I know we’re coming late to the party and trying to reinvent the wheel , but at least it keeps us from chasing women and out of bars......errr, at least it keeps us busy.


    Bones
     
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  25. With the 429 Ford, we had to run a 2-barrel, class rules. So we put a 500 Holley on it. One night we got protested and the 1st thing the tech guys sees is a Holley peeking out under the air cleaner... he says busted... no 4-barrels! We show him what it was. Overnight the rule book was changed... no Holleys! We put an Autolite 2-barrel on it and the car was just as fast.
     
  26. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 6,213

    sunbeam
    Member

    The Australian heads are way better than the US stuff open chambers dropped the compression but got rid of the quench detonation really bad even with low compression
     
  27. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 6,440

    Boneyard51
    Member


    They have us by the short and curlies, the rules even specify the Holley part number you can run. I swear they have a rule as to what brand of underwear you have to have!
    We’re going to build it our way and shame those Chevy boys into letting us run. It’s going to be fun! You all come on down and watch.


    Bones
     
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  28. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 12,592

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    To bad you can't run a Rochester 2GC
     
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  29. RmK57
    Joined: Dec 31, 2008
    Posts: 2,659

    RmK57
    Member

    Are there any other Fords running in the class you'll be in and are they running competitively ?

    If there are a couple I'd see what combo their using and perhaps tweak it one way or another.
     
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  30. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 6,440

    Boneyard51
    Member

    James that would be cool, but they’ve got the rules leaning so far toward Chevy, it isn’t even funny, running a Ford. What is the cfm of that 2GC? We probably wouldn’t run it, because if we won, they would credit the Chevy carb for our victory!

    Rm , we’ll be the only Ford powered car out there I think. I know of no one else doing this, here.
    We’re not going to try to win the points race, just go race when we can and have fun.


    Bones
     

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