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Hot Rods 350 chevy no oil pressure

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Mopar Tony, Mar 1, 2023.

  1. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 11,504


    That poor engine. What your friend did was like that old phrase “that is so wrong in so many ways”.
    There’s also something different about the lifter bore bosses on an engine that came with the hydraulic rollers vs one that was set up for it, but came with a flat tappet cam. There was a post here on the HAMB where the fella had to run V6 lifters and different push rods as I recall, to solve the issue.
    But I don’t recall what the issue exactly was, so may not be related to his problem.
    But after he told you he honed everything in a basically assembled short block, why didn’t you say “You did what”?
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2023
    SS327 and Desoto291Hemi like this.
  2. BJR
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 8,580


    Just print out all the replies here to your initial post and give them to your friend. After reading them he should have no reason to blame you for anything.
    Doublepumper likes this.
  3. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 11,504


    His friend isn’t upset, but the OP feels bad about it. No reason (yet) to tell his friend he screwed the pooch with what he did.
    SS327, Algoma56 and firstinsteele like this.
  4. Los_Control
    Joined: Oct 7, 2016
    Posts: 906

    from TX

    He sounds like a good friend. He knew his tactics were shady at best .... Not blaming you.

    I recently bought a used engine from a wrecking yard. A OT V6 with aprox 80k-100k miles on it.
    I asked him what he knew about it .... He laughed, son I've had that engine for 8 or 10 years .... I figure it must be good or I would not have kept it.

    I pulled the intake & valve covers, it looked like brand new so I stopped there.
    When I started it, had some condensation burn off, warmed up and ran perfect.
    I put 25 miles on it the next few days driving around town and very pleased with how smooth & quiet it ran.
    Then I took it out for a test drive on the freeway, drove 15 miles & spun a rod bearing.

    I never called the wrecking yard & complained. I wish I would have treated the oil as if it was break in oil .... changed it as soon as the condensation went away, before driving it.
    Possible the oil pump quit working ... I dunno. Going to tear it down soon and go through it.

    Point is, you never know what a used engine will bring. Even one that was not messed with.
    If you mess with them with mis matched parts, all bets are off.
    Algoma56 likes this.
  5. I had a 1995 350 SBC that came from a truck. It was a factory "roller" block (meaning the block was designed to accept roller components) BUT this particular engine came from the factory with flat tappets. I hit the wreckers and grabbed all the roller stuff off a Buick Roadmaster 350 and put all of it in the '95 truck engine. I then installed a 1987 Monte SS intake (bolted right on) that accepted a Quadrajet carb. For dist I used an older HEI (with vac adv) and purchased a "melonized" gear from GM. The melonized gear was required to work with the roller cam.

    Engine ran great, I put a lot of miles on that engine as it was in my "daily". My only issue was, the factory roller cam was not designed to drive a mechanical fuel pump so I had to run an electric pump.

    There were absolutely ZERO issues swapping out the factory flat tappets (and cam) for the factory roller lifters (and cam). The fit was perfect, no honing needed. I don't understand how there could be any issues going the other way by swapping from roller to flat as long as it is done using the correct parts. As I recall, the roller cam used a different timing chain/gears than the flat did (for example).

    I have never needed to hone lifter bores in a SBC.
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2023
  6. Apparently TBI heads are kind of useless so I don't fault the guy for swapping on some Vortec heads as they (the Vortecs) apparently flow extremely well and may boost compression depending on the application and they would be a bolt on as long as the correct intake is used.

    I don't believe the dist/cam gear was shredded as that would stop the dist from turning as well as the oil pump meaning the engine would stop running.

    If the pick up fell off the pump, depending on the oil level in the pan (pump partially submerged ??) and the angle of the car (going up or down a hill for example), the pressure could easily fluctuate.

    All that being said, I am still VERY suspicious of the need to hone the lifter bores. If the wrong lifters were used (not "in the wrong bores to match the cam" but literally "the wrong lifters"), the top end could have been starved for oil if the passages in the block don't match the lifters. I've seen it done on a 400 Pontiac.
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2023
    Algoma56 likes this.
  7. Well I got a friend that has a saying that will answer this exact question.

    "If it aint broken fix it 'til it is!!!" [quote Phil Schooley]
  8. ratfink56
    Joined: Jan 30, 2008
    Posts: 352


    The one truth I get from this thread is that @Mopar Tony is a stand up guy.
  9. Dan Timberlake
    Joined: Apr 28, 2010
    Posts: 1,467

    Dan Timberlake

    Sounds like that engine needs to come completely apart and carefully inspected for any salveageable parts.
    There may not be many after the 50 mile torture run.
  10. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 13,081

    jimmy six

    Hate to ask Tony but does your friend have a knowledge about engines in general and possibly more about a SBC? You obviously told him you had an engine but had little to no knowledge of its condition. I personally have never heard of anyone honing cylinder walls with pistons still installed. I’ve actually done a single cylinder after removing the piston and it was fine after a lot of cleanup.
    It sounds like mismatched parts and honing especially the lifter bores had left damaging fine metal in places it cannot be tolerated.
    If he’s your friend just let him go on a smile a lot.
  11. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 11,377

    Johnny Gee
    from Downey, Ca

    I’m just going to put it out there. Dysfunctional friendship’s are no laughing matter. There’s more than an engine at stake here. I hope I’m wrong.
  12. The work done by your friend sounds like one of the "let's see what happens when we..." torture tests put together by Frieberger and Finnegan for a Roadkill episode.
  13. Dooley
    Joined: May 29, 2002
    Posts: 2,890

    from Buffalo NY

    I agree with most if not all replies, but wanted to share.
    If he loaded up the cam lube on the lifters and valve train that goop can get caught in the oil pump pick up and restrict oil flow.. happened to me once
  14. 6C75507B-BC02-48EA-8C84-FA9A0305646A.jpeg
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2023
    Bandit Billy likes this.
  15. Bandit Billy
    Joined: Sep 16, 2014
    Posts: 10,286

    Bandit Billy

    It is just an observation, so don't call the townspeople together, but there seems to be more "what's wrong with my SBC" threads on here lately than there are "what's wrong with my flathead" threads. Things that make you go hmmm. :cool:
    Thats a good one Anthony. I saw one the other day about a priest, a minister and a rabbit that walked into a bar. The rabbit was just thankful for spellcheck.
    Desoto291Hemi likes this.
  16. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 22,618


    I will never understand how some people get things so exactly wrong.
  17. @Mopar Tony , let us know when he tears it down, what he finds.
  18. Mopar Tony
    Joined: Jun 11, 2019
    Posts: 524

    Mopar Tony

    To answer a couple things, I will for sure let everyone know when he tells me what happened. I am a mopar guy (obviously) and demo derbied for years. The 91 roadmaster was a car I got to derby and use for parts for my 50 mercury build. I will use what ever motor I need as long as it is mopar, chevy, or ford. I was saving this 350 to use in my 50 mercury but he had bought a bad motor from a different guy and I felt bad for him. So I told him I'd sell him this 350 with the 700r4 hooked to it for $600 bucks. I drove the car around when it was still together, no ticks, knocks etc and was making decent oil pressure which is why pulled it and saved it for my own project. Before I sold it to him I sent him a video of it running and the burnout I did with it (when I sent the video it was a year prior to him buying it and I was just showing it to him). It would smoke on start up as it needed valve stem seals but other than that ran fine. My friend works on cars all the time but I don't think he always tears that deep into them and I believe this to be his first roller motor. I told him what he was doing sounded suspect but he said he was trying to keep it affordable by using used parts and a mechanical pump. I am hoping he doesn't blame me and currently says he doesn't, but I value his friendship and don't want it to be a situation where he feels like I screwed him over. I have swapped quite a few cams, heads, etc (on mopars) and had no issue so this was weird to me. I wasn't sure if the lifter valley's are different from roller to hydraulic flat tappet and that is what caused the issue.
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2023
    Deuces and Budget36 like this.
  19. Your warranty (not that there was one but I understand when it’s a friend) was gone as soon as he modified it.
    Honing while together?
    Definitely void.
    Yanking heads and cam swapping…..void

    trying to save a buck gets expensive sometimes
    Working on a sbc now. The rebuilt 283 I bought for $200 was “rebuilt”. Crank looks great but I’m letting my machinist guy check it anyway. Heads that looked fresh, I’m taking apart to check.
    Completely taking apart and inspecting/cleaning everything.
    Deuces, Wanderlust, X-cpe and 3 others like this.
  20. Mopar Tony ,

    The reason he might need to hone the lifter bores would be from a varnish pattern around a roller wheel .
    Since the roller lifters don’t rotate in the bores,,,,,,a varnish might build up at the base,,,,,,fore and aft of the wheel axle .
    If going to a normal lifter,,,,it would be tight and probably not fit correctly .

    I’m all for doing it cheap,,,,,,but,,,,I would never attempt to hone a block without a good tear down and clean .
    What was that phrase Archie used again ?

    And Vortec heads,,,, why ?
    Yes,,,,I know the theory there,,,,,,but if you look inside a Vortec head,,,,,,the port’s barely flow,,,,,they fall above 3800 ,,or close .
    Cheap would have been to left it alone,,,,,,and purchased an inexpensive electric pump,,,,,it would still be running .
    As it is,,,,,sounds like the engine is crap now,,,,,can’t be fixed without a major cash injection .

    You say he bought a bad engine from another guy before you,,,,was the engine bad,,,or was it just his Modis Operandi,,,,,,of tearing into one to check it out ?
    And then blow it up !

    You will probably give back the money to keep everyone happy .
    So,,,,,,,you lose a good spare engine,,,,,he gets nothing,,other than a rebuildable core .

    You must be a real friend to defend him and his actions .

    firstinsteele and gimpyshotrods like this.
  21. The lifter valley in those blocks accepts both flat tappet and roller lifters. Both style lifters were offered from the factory in that block (depending on the vehicle the engine was installed in).
    gimpyshotrods and SS327 like this.
  22. Hollywood-East
    Joined: Mar 13, 2008
    Posts: 1,908


    Where did all the abrasive go from The honing of the cylinders, Where did all the abrasive go when doing the lifter bore's..... Geezuzzz, lucky he made it Home!
    Nope, Ain't your problem....
    Desoto291Hemi and jimmy six like this.
  23. I think I know. :D

    'Bet that oil is the prettiest metallic brown you've ever seen... at least now, anyway. :p
  24. Johnboy34
    Joined: Jul 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,539

    from Seattle,Wa

    He's a friend, do the friend thing and help him tear it down to see what happened. After he pulls it out, he actually has no choice at this point.
    Wanderlust, Mopar Tony and ccain like this.
  25. Here's my input Tony, did this 350 in its original home, have an auxiliary oil cooler? Lines coming out of the block, going to an oil cooler? I'm not the genius in this, but I've seen it done, with a main bearing knock being the result. The guy put that engine in a hot rod, and blocked off the lines. And from what I understand, starved the thing of oil. Took about 15 minutes before the knock started. I'm the dumbass that did it. I connected the 2 lines with a rubber hose, but the hose was kinked. That's all I've got, if it doesn't have this oil system, I'm out on info, but a used engine, is a used engine, it was good when you sold it, that's all a man can guarantee.
    Algoma56, Mopar Tony and 427 sleeper like this.
  26. indyjps
    Joined: Feb 21, 2007
    Posts: 5,349


    He put a Lunati cam in a 305.

    I'm done. Out.
    Mopar Tony and anthony myrick like this.
  27. You sound like a stand up guy Tony but don't let your conscience cost you money that you don't owe. Your bud really fucked that engine up in more ways than one. He could not leave well enough alone and overestimated his abilities, a knocking Frankenstein infernal combustion engine is the result. Your hands are clean.
  28. 1971BB427
    Joined: Mar 6, 2010
    Posts: 8,201

    from Oregon

    Sure sounds like he did everything he could the wrong way, expecting a good result. I'm surprised it went 50 miles after the way he screwed up the build. Surely you shouldn't feel anything for his mistakes.
  29. I keep rereading this whole thing. Geez... an Illuminati cam? I'll bet those are Bilderberg lifters, and Pentaverate Heads? This thread is so weird and has "conspiracy" written all over it! :eek:

    Is OP's friend Elvis? I'll bet it's Elvis. I knew he didn't die on the toilet that day like the shape shifting Lizard People want you to believe. And "lone gunman"? Give me a break! Next thing you're gonna tell me is that this thing is "Moon Equipped" like the moon landings weren't faked. :eek::mad:

    The truth is out there. Open your eyes sheeple!!!


    All I'm saying is... If I sell you a fat, happy horse with good teeth and all and the guy that buys it, rides it at full gallop for 20 hours and it foams up and drops over dead. It's not my fault.

    But yeah... this stinks of "secret society" involvement. :p:p:p
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2023

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