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Projects 348 powered 40 Ford sedan

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by neilswheels, Jul 31, 2014.

  1. 911 steve
    Joined: Nov 29, 2012
    Posts: 576

    911 steve
    Member
    from nebraska

    some Sept 2012 pics of the 1st 40 in the storage unit. I fell in love with it all over again. The yellow & brown primer is the one I had in 1971-72. the blk one with flames is my current ride that was heavily inspired by the 1st 40. 001.JPG 003.JPG 004.JPG 007.JPG 010.JPG 011.JPG 016.JPG Steve1st40.jpg 2015-07-20 02.41.52.jpg 2015-03-06 20.42.37.jpg 2015-03-06 20.43.05.jpg 2015-03-06 20.44.20.jpg
     
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  2. mgtstumpy
    Joined: Jul 20, 2006
    Posts: 7,551

    mgtstumpy
    Member

    Love those W motors, I hope the old Ford rear can hold up
     
  3. neilswheels
    Joined: Aug 26, 2006
    Posts: 611

    neilswheels
    Member
    from England

    Wow, they cut that firewall up for the W!
    I've grabbed a bit more time in the garage, so I've been redoing the clutch slave mount. Based on the novak kit, I mocked up Marco's mid mount with a slave mount, again. First time I made it, I got the slave about 10mm too low due to not being able to get a proper 'eye' on things with it all being so tight. So heres' marco's mount with the mod
    [​IMG]
    I then transferred this to a piece of 8mm plate,used tank cutter saws, a grinder and belt sander to shape it.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    You can see in the last pic how far out I was. I also made a little more room for the brake pedal arm
    Once happy it all worked, i welded it together
    [​IMG]
    Next, the brake pedal. It didn't fit. I looked at it for a while and decided to bend it near the base, as close as the chassis would allow, and have a long shallow bend, then tweak the top over to get the top arc vertical, then pull the pedal mount over to get it away from the column. A bit of measuring, then in the vice and setup a stop so i bend it only as far as i want. Oxy propane torch out, heat and bend.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    A little trial fit, all looked good, but then i spotted the clutch arm, it looked way too close to the brake pedal when the pedal was at full travel, as in 'stopping'! So re assess, and re bend. this time it all fits - just. As i haven't got the slave working yet, I dont know for sure, but I think it will work, maybe a little trimming on the end of the clutch arm
    [​IMG]
    A bit of chassis clearancing was needed on the top of the rail
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Its close on the column, but I think it will be fine
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2017
    kidcampbell71 and lothiandon1940 like this.
  4. neilswheels
    Joined: Aug 26, 2006
    Posts: 611

    neilswheels
    Member
    from England

    Next is the clutch master cylinder. As I'm using a TCI DC brake MC kit, I have an 'adapter' on the pedal cluster. After a bit of thinking and looking about, i've decided to make a new adapter that will also hold the slave, alot like this one Bass on the HAMB made for his rod
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    My slave is a jeep unit I believe, as recommended by novatek because it has alot of travel, 45mm with a 3/4 bore. They recommend a CJ jeep MC, looking around i found the landrover unit is 3/4, but i didn't know how much travel. It looked the same as the jeep unit, so i took a punt, unfortunately its only got 35mm travel. So at this point, i'm looking for a suitable MC..anyone?
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2017
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  5. neilswheels
    Joined: Aug 26, 2006
    Posts: 611

    neilswheels
    Member
    from England

    Hey Kan, any pics, a build thread maybe.... love to see how your getting around the 'opportunities' in your build.
     
  6. Kan Kustom
    Joined: Jul 20, 2009
    Posts: 2,287

    Kan Kustom
    Member

    I wish I was that far along. I have a 40 standard coupe that was done back in the 60`s and was taken apart for rebuild and messed with off and on since then but never finished. I have been collecting parts, three pot 348, Muncie 4 speed etc. for a while now and am just now ready to blow it apart and make things happen. Watching your build keeps my old ticker in high gear. Thanks
     
    lothiandon1940 likes this.
  7. 40Standard
    Joined: Jul 30, 2005
    Posts: 5,738

    40Standard
    Member
    from Indy

    gotta love a 40 Ford Standard
     
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  8. neilswheels
    Joined: Aug 26, 2006
    Posts: 611

    neilswheels
    Member
    from England

    Woo-hoo! Brakes plumbed!Thanks to Guy and alot off copper pipe, my brake lines are finally FINISHED!
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    And thanks to Tom Kelly on the HAMB in OZ, and my Mum for just happening to be in Oz on holiday, I know have my new 'clutch' pedal
    [​IMG]
    Its actually another brake pedal, but the pushrod connecting arm is on the bottom of the pedal, so it will push backwards when the pedal is depressed, and the connecting arm is dog legged, so will line up with the Clutch master cylinder. I'll need to heat and bend the main arm to mimic the original Brake Pedal, and I'll have to extend the pushrod arm about 5mm to get enough pushrod movement, but hopefully it will do the trick.
    Sorry about the boring brakeline pics, but this has been such a PITA to sort out and make, its good to have it finally done.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2017
    kidcampbell71 and lothiandon1940 like this.
  9. Ice man
    Joined: Mar 12, 2008
    Posts: 968

    Ice man
    Member

    Well I hate to rain on your parade BUT, copper brake lines are a NO NO. Steel or S/S is what's the norm, but copper is asking for problems. And she's to nice to gamble on problems. Iceman
     
  10. okiedokie
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 3,607

    okiedokie
    Member
    from Ok

    Maybe he used Nickle/copper lines. Perfectly fine.
     
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  11. neilswheels
    Joined: Aug 26, 2006
    Posts: 611

    neilswheels
    Member
    from England

    I used copper guys, its the norm over here, supplied in auto shops, all British Standard tested. No problem as long as they are secured properly, which I've done. Steel and SS lines will also fail if they're not secured properly.
     
  12. neilswheels
    Joined: Aug 26, 2006
    Posts: 611

    neilswheels
    Member
    from England

    Something a little more interesting to update, clutch pedal.
    To start with I made a new adapter to take the clutch and brake mc's, based on the one that i got in the tci kit.
    [​IMG]
    Next, bend the new brake arm to follow the line of the old clutch arm
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    and this is why i've gone for a brake pedal on the clutch
    [​IMG]
    and viola!!
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Works a treat, or at least it will when I get the travel sorted, but overall, for about an hours work, I'm chuffed!
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2017
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  13. The 39 guy
    Joined: Nov 5, 2010
    Posts: 2,655

    The 39 guy
    Member

    That is some crafty fabrication. Looks like it will be pretty tight for the exhaust pipe if you planning to run it through the frame. What are you planning for that?
     
  14. neilswheels
    Joined: Aug 26, 2006
    Posts: 611

    neilswheels
    Member
    from England

    Yeh, you're right, it's tight. When I was mucking about with the flattie, before I decided to drop the 348 in, I had run the exhaust through the chassis x member in front of the pedals, it was very tight, and I didn't have full clutch pedal travel, although I thought that with the clutch adjusted properly, it wouldn't be an issue.But now, with the mid mount and slave, and the emergency brake cable, there's no way the exhaust is coming through there. I've always wanted to run fender well headers, and looking under the car, there is enough room to get the exhaust routed under the chassis from the inner fender, and back up into the frame space without the exhaust being too low where it drops under the chassis rail. So, another little project, fenderwell headers, as no one makes any for this application. I was wondering if I could adapt sbc or bbc 'fat fender' or tri five fender well headers with a bit of creative fab up by the heads. Have to see what happens when I get that far.
     
  15. The 39 guy
    Joined: Nov 5, 2010
    Posts: 2,655

    The 39 guy
    Member

    I am looking forward to your fenderwell header adventure. If it comes out like all of the other projects you have done on your 40 I am sure it will be well engineered and work well.
     
  16. neilswheels
    Joined: Aug 26, 2006
    Posts: 611

    neilswheels
    Member
    from England

  17. Kan Kustom
    Joined: Jul 20, 2009
    Posts: 2,287

    Kan Kustom
    Member

    Any updates ?
     
    lothiandon1940 likes this.
  18. Yes, please.
     
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  19. belair
    Joined: Jul 10, 2006
    Posts: 8,049

    belair
    Member

    Great job. It's hard powering thru all the little jobs and stuff, but you are doing great. Congrats on a great car.
     
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  20. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 9,701

    Atwater Mike
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Installed a 348 tri power (280 HP) in a '41 pickup in '63. Amazed then how small the bottom end was, just a perfect fit. Headers solved the steering interference issue, lower firewall just sliced and pie cut in the 8" width of lower center.
    A friend with a '46 Ford Tudor wanted the same, only 250 HP 'W'. Similar slice at lower firewall, used a Cragar Chev adaptor to '46 column shift box.
    Switched exhaust manifolds, then Tony's Mufflers did exhaust. 2", all the way back, 36" glass paks.
    'High Zoot' for '63... Always liked those engines. Used Howards cams exclusively...
     
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  21. Kan Kustom
    Joined: Jul 20, 2009
    Posts: 2,287

    Kan Kustom
    Member

    Atwater Mike, That would be the cool deal today ! You were definitely ahead of the pack in 63. Wish I could have been there when you built it.
     
  22. neilswheels
    Joined: Aug 26, 2006
    Posts: 611

    neilswheels
    Member
    from England

    Sounds very cool Mike, I've been thinking about swapping in a cam, but I think I'll get it running first.

    Not really I'm afraid, a bit of tinkering been going on, re did mid exhaust hangers, as they no longer worked since the A crossmember going in, sounds simple, but a good day of evenings used, and then clearanced the floor under the back seat for the exhaust, seems the exhaust is a little higher than i thought, another days worth of time gone.
    I've also redone the MC mount/adapter, slightly thicker material, allowed for countersunk bolts to mount it with, and moved the big hole for the brake mc down (thought I was being clever and centralised it on the first version, thinking that the chinese hot rod shop had got it wrong, turns out that it needs to be off set)
    I've also been looking at progressive carb linkages. I cant afford $300 up for one, so I've been trying to figure out a way around it, but so far all I have is a collection of different new parts that dont work.
    Headers have been 'researched', still really keen on the Drag Master style collector, but talking to various people I need about 36 inch long primarys, and although I know for a stock motor, it's not that crucial, but if i'm making them I would like to do the best job I can, but thats a lot of tube to squeeze in under the fenders, and the huge collector. I've now got the header flanges tho, so some interetsing fab ahead..

    This has been in between 2 off topic projects, and the general stuff life gives you, slow progress
     

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    Last edited: Dec 28, 2016
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  23. BLACKNRED
    Joined: May 8, 2010
    Posts: 272

    BLACKNRED
    Member

    Hi Neil
    Over here copper for brake lines are a complete no no, copper coated steel, steel or stainless steel are required, copper will expand under pressure and is more likely to work harden and fracture than the steel bundy tubing.

    Your 40 is really slipping along, you will be driving it soon, well done
    Grub
     
  24. neilswheels
    Joined: Aug 26, 2006
    Posts: 611

    neilswheels
    Member
    from England

    Hi Grub,
    Yeh, I know its not thought of as great in alot of corners, but it is actually sold for this purpose. I think i'll do some more investigating, see what it actually is, as I'm sure it couldn't be sold for this use in lot of car spare shops if it was dangerous.
     
  25. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 9,434

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    My guess its this stuff. cunifer-brake-line.jpg
     
  26. neilswheels
    Joined: Aug 26, 2006
    Posts: 611

    neilswheels
    Member
    from England

    Had a little look, and found this:

    http://www.automec.co.uk/collections/brake-pipe-coils/products/coil-copper-3-16-x-25ft

    which basically says this:
    We supply thick-walled copper 20swg which conforms to BS 2871 part 3, CN102 as well as BS EN 12451.1999. This material is 100% electrically and pressure tested. Every batch is also destructively tested for tensile and burst pressure results. Residue testing to BLS.30.JC.101 is also carried out on every batch to ensure cleanliness standards are met. This high quality thick walled copper tubing is manufactured in Great Britain and specifically designed for use with brake systems.

    Also found this on another site,
    http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/copper-brake-pipe-fittings/automec-pure-copper-brake-pipe

    which says:
    Supplied in a 25Ft roll this pure copper brake pipe is ideal for making up replacement or customising brake lines. Pure copper brake pipes is more malleable than copper nickel and has a burst pressure of over double the specified SAE standard.



    I know my pipe has a lot of spec written all the way along it, so i will check, and see if it ties up.
     
    tomkelly88 likes this.
  27. Waddell
    Joined: Aug 25, 2009
    Posts: 41

    Waddell
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    1. H.A.M.B. Chapel

    Neil,
    I have a 39 'Tudor Deluxe Sedan and you are tempting me. Always liked "W" blocks. Will follow this post. BTW my bride was born in Sheffield and we lived in Wimborne for about a year.
    For the time being continuing to run the Flathead (in process of adding a vintage Fenton 2 carb intake).
    Wel done
     
  28. 30TudorSedan
    Joined: Sep 20, 2007
    Posts: 366

    30TudorSedan
    Member

    Subscribed! Great fabrication and looking forward to more updates!
     
  29. neilswheels
    Joined: Aug 26, 2006
    Posts: 611

    neilswheels
    Member
    from England

    So a small victory,the clutch pedal is finally finished. I had to make another 'adapter plate', as I'd 'centered' the hole for the brake MC, thinking the adapter was a little hokey Chinese made item, but turns out that the hole isn't supposed to be centered! I then tiged a tab on the clutch (brake) arm, machined a couple of pins on my 'new' lathe for the yoke on the clutch and brake pedal to take a return spring, and made a little bracket to locate the return spring on the chassis using existing holes in the bottom of the K member. I still need those C clips tho..

    I've also taken the rad out to get the hose inlets changed, but this meant I had to take the grille off to wriggle the rad out, as the water pump nose is to close to the rad to wriggle it up and past the inner fender wells. Not looking forward to re fitting the grille, the bolts that hold it in also have to go through the fenders and inner fenders and air flow plates, no way i've got enough hands to line all that up! I've since found out that Ford assembled all this off the car, then dropped it on the car as one part, I can see why.

    IMG_3135.JPG IMG_3148.JPG
    I've decided not to follow my original 'plan' which was to get it out lowered with skirts, Sombreros and whitewalls, drive it for a bit and then hot rod it. Instead I'm just gonna hot rod it and drive it (hopefully..)

    I've also worked out that although my 348 is a 58 model, its a second generation, so can take aftermarket alli heads, and doesnt have a rope rear crank seal, which is good to know
    .
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2017

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