Projects 34 Ford Roadster - (different) engine question

Here is my recently acquired 34 Roadster which I have decided to build as a traditional 40's hot rod.
SO - what exactly IS a traditional 40's hot rod. Which model engine is appropriate and who builds the best one? I would prefer to use original, period correct components where feasible without compromising safety. What would have been done in the late 40's - dropped axle, '39 trans, what about the rear-end?

Thanks to those members of this forum who counseled and guided me into not building this into a modern street rod.

 

I'll be first, a 40's era build it won't have an OHV engine as they weren't around until 1949.
Flattie with 2 or 3 carbs, juice brakes and QC rear. Fully fendered with hood and sides.
I love it the way it is, original patina and not fake.

 

What mgtstumpy said

 

Well, I was around then ,just a little young. But I did see a few "hot rods" that the older generation, as in my Dads, derided. " Why would any one do that to a perfectly good car?" He was 30ish.
The first hot rod I can remember having anything to do with a friend and co worker owned. 1953 it was. A '37 Chevy coupe. NO fenders or running boards. No fancy paint. This was in the midwest, not west coast. Most rods in MO and KS were not fancy.

Ben

P.S. I will bet the first Olds or Caddy OHV was installed in one just a few days after the first wrecked '49.

 

Remember on the quick change rear they don't just bolt in. The rear of the car needs to be raised enough that the rear spring doesn't hit the quick change on a bump. Columbia 2 speed rear ends are another era correct accessory but I have always felt they were more trouble and expense than they were worth. If it was mine I would just put 3.54 gears in the rear and leave it at that. A bit of trivia on the '34 rear end, the 4 cylinder used a different length torque tube from the V8.

Charlie Stephens

 

Bandoola,

What does your master cylinder mount look like? That is one area that was done VERY poorly on many cars of that era.

Charlie Stephens

 

I put 3.54's in my 34 rear, not too much trouble. It, along with the 4" stroke and 39 trans make it a pleasure to drive

 

Hopefully you based your decision on what you like and not someone else's ideas. Building a 40-50's style 34 roadster is a great project and shouldn't break the bank. Several good suggestions have been made and the drivability of a flathead has been proven over and over again if they are put together correctly. The built flathead can cost a great deal of money, but using a later a 59AB or 59L block should provide a solid foundation. Dropped axle, 3:54 gears, maybe a 56 Ford F-100 box to help with steering and some spring work will complete the driving end of the build. From the looks of you car I would leave it alone for now. Keep us posted.
Shown below are some traditional builds I like.

 

You are correct, and the patina is beautiful on that old heap.

I have seen lots of rods built in the '40s with '40 Ford juice brakes and a 21 stud flatty. '39 Tranny with Zephyre gears if you can find them. I like that body the way that it is but Lasalle grills were also popular. 40 Ford wheels with rings and caps. If the interior gets done wide pleats, white or black (white is easier to sit on). The stock banjo will hold up just fine, makes sure that it is up to par, no worn hubs etc.

Aluminum heads (evans), Twin carbs, and sometimes a magneto if you were all about going fast. The intake would want to be an evans, but the low bucks guys were building a sling shot and bolting it to the original intake.

 

Thanks guys for all the input - keep it coming, especially the photos.
Pewsplace, you raise a very good point - in fact, the one I deliberated over the most. To be honest, a 40's build was not my first choice; the post which sparked the discussion regarding the direction of this vehicle was me asking if a 427 SBC would fit. My intent was to find an original steel body, put it on a TCI frame with IFS, T5, 9" rear-end and have a 600hp street rod.

But what I found instead was a complete car in fairly descent condition, which I have come to realize does not happen every day. Several members of this forum had the wisdom and fortitude to step up and say, "do what you want - it's your car, but consider what you've found." They are right and I do not disagree.

So that left me the following choices:
1. Ignore them and use the car to build what I want
2. Sell the car to someone who would keep it intact
3. Stick it away in the barn and let it sit

I was explaining the situation to my wife, expressing a sense of stewardship toward the car and "now that I've got it - I need to take care of it."
Her response was, "don't sell it, why can't you do both? Get this one running, clean it up, paint it, etc and then go build yourself a hot rod."
With a straight face I replied, "well, I suppose I could - that's not a bad idea. Let me see what I can do."

So, that is how I arrived at the decision to build a 40's correct car. Hopefully, with continued support from this forum I will get it correct.

Side note regarding wife: No, she does not have a sister and this was not an isolated occurrence. A few years ago I took her for a ride in my dad's old 1953 M38A1 jeep and going downhill it popped out of gear - causing her some concern. Her immediate response was, "this is dangerous - you should fix it."
"Yes dear" was all I said.

So...

 

Thanks guys for all the input, I really appreciate it. Couple of things: Tell me more about Zephyr gears, we actually had one in high school as our "cruiser". And, will a QC rear end interfere with the rumble seat?
Thanks,

g

 

This is what could be known as a 'Jeep trick'. To your OWN wife! The shame...

 

More often than not the QC will get into your foot room for a rumble seat. I would have to look it up ( or you could just google it) but the Zephyr had a more desirable gear set (ratios). It was a common mod for 39 trannies.

 

Charlie,

Thanks for the conversation yesterday, I appreciate it. I will take some pictures of the master cylinder area and post them here. In fact, I'll pull it out of the garage and take pictures of the engine compartment, dash, etc, and you guys can look them over and tell me if what's there is stock or not.

Thanks,

g

 

QC rears would be seen in Lakes race cars, seldom on a street driven 'rod' in the '40s or early '50s.
The cars with QC rears (even in the prestigious car club 'The Igniters', Santa Clara, CA....circa 1949-1960) were scarce.
There was a '32 Five window that attended meetings, had a Halibrand Culver City Quickie under it, BUT! It was Donny Tebash's ex drag coupe.
Boof's '32 High boy sported a QC also, (another Culver City gem) but the roadster was also a weekly drag car, 'street roadster class'.
Lots of other 'high zoot' cars also inhabited those club meetings, banjo rears with NO QC center sections...
A '40 Ford rear would grace that '34 nicely. 354 gear, natch.

 

Mike,

There is more to the story. For two years she said only two things regarding the jeep. One day she asked what I ever did with "that old jeep"; so I took her out to the shop and when she saw it she started laughing and asked me how I planned to get in it. During a ride one day she said, "do I want to know how much you've spent on this thing?" I pointed out the lovely wild flowers by the road and asked her where she wanted to have lunch.

So, just before Christmas I came downstairs for breakfast and found my laptop open displaying a picture of a very pretty car, there was a note with a smiley face on the computer which read "palladium metallic silver, don't come home without one."

So I googled "Happy Wife - Happy Life" and went to the car dealer.

 

A quick change will end up running right into your gas tank. You would have to notch, or relocate your gas tank.

I know who you got that car from, I told a few people about it when I heard it was for a sale a few months back. It is a very neat, well preserved car, it would be an absolute shame to drop it on a "modern" chassis. Just my opinion, there are very little 33/34 roadsters around.

 

Thanks Chris,

Yeah, I agree. I went back last week and bought some parts he had for spares or possibly my street rod. I told him my new plan and his face lit up. I'm going to have him help me with the build. When I bought the car, I looked back in the mirror as I was leaving with it on the trailer - he had his sad face on. If you have time, can you give me a front-to-back quick list of possible options?

Thanks,

g

 

Well, I really do not know your end goal with the car. You have mentioned 40's hotrod...I did mine with the magic year of 1953 in mind. Not sure why, it was just what I wanted. And no, mine is not 1953 to a "T". I have a 59Ab with a Merc crank, Navarro heads, original Edelbrock sling shot, crab ignition, headers, upgraded steering, dropped and chromed front axle, un-split wishbone, hydraulic brakes, Master Cylinder locating kit from the V8 garage, 39 transmission, stock 34 rear end with modified 1935-1936 3.54 gears, reverse eye springs front and rear, original shocks, radiator, gas tank, etc. Windshield and post chopped 2", modified original top. I shoved the seat back quite a ways as I'm a pretty big guy. Wood in doors and body is original, dash is original and I chromed it, seat is stock.

My car is not done, I do need to eventually paint it and redo the interior. Hopefully in the next year or two. I only work on it as my budget allows.

Be careful with that car, and every part on it until you know exactly what you are going to do.

 

Thanks Chris,

Nice looking car. I guess the look I am after is something my dad might have built after he got home from the war, (had he been inclined), so 48ish. Looking at your car, my windshield appears to be about the same size. Do you know the height of a stock one? It's possible mine has been chopped.

I agree with you, I won't touch anything until I've got it sorted out and all the parts and pieces are there. I ordered an engine and have a spare "runner" which we might drop in just to drive it up and down the lane. The engine that's in it is locked up. I made some calls to locate a Zephyr tranny, and I'll post pictures of the rear-end so you guys can tell me what's in it now. I'm 5'11", so I think the seat should work where it is. I rode it off my trailer into the garage and it seemed ok.

 

My understanding from reading is that the Lincoln gears are no stronger than the Ford gears. The ratio for first is higher (which is not what you want if you are running 3.54). The ratios are closer together which is what the racers liked.

Charlie Stephens

 

Your windshield looks stock height but maybe laid back? or Loose?

@Charlie Stephens is right, Zephyr gears are not really an improvement in a car with tall gears.

 

All those white walls and fenders look like the mid to late 50s even with a flathead.

I'd go read the don mongumery<- absolutely spelt wrong , books if you want to know what a 40's rod looked like. My local library had a couple and it really did help outline some trends with time points. That'd be pretty helpful if you were trying to stay absolute true to an era

 

Keep your engine modifications within reason, there are only 3 main bearings.

Charlie Stephens

 

Montgomery.
There is a Hot Rods of the 40's thread on here.

 

Watch out for the clutch with Zephyr gears. If you want the car to wind out thru the gears ,go with zephyr. Most of the time you will be happy with the stock trans.

 

It is loose.

 

Thanks, I will check it out; and the book as well.