I'm looking to swap the 331 for a 472 ,but getting really negative feedback about it. It has me second guessing my decision to do this. My question is . Is it worth the money to just rebuild my original trans and engine? here's some comments i'm getting on the swap Evaluate your decision carefully. None of the options you are considering are easy or cheap. Unless you find a running/rebuilt 331 with a running/rebuilt hydramatic attached for a "reasonable" price, you are going to spend a lot of money and time to get your car on the road. There is no way around it. 1. Nothing but the original engine and tranny will just "drop in". 2. Any other engine and tranny is going to have to come with proven bona fides or you're going to have to rebuild them anyway. 3. Other modifications will be required if you change the drive train. Custom made trans mounts, drive shaft, motor mounts (maybe). Gearshift pointer won't match whatever gear you're in. 4. Differential may have to be changed to handle more powerful engine and transmission. "Yes there are - big time. It involves something about notching and boxing the crossmember, something of a different oil pan and sump, and the exhaust manifolds create a whole nightmare too. I've heard of people doing it on 61's and 62's and hindsight was to go with the original driveline - no matter what." In the long run, I believe you are best off to repair/rebuild your ORIGINAL units. No matter what, you are looking at replacing what you have with non-authentic parts. If you still have the engine that came with the car new, then the numbers match. You are considering changing to a newer drivetrain. Can the older differential handle it? Bite the bullet; rebuild your original engine and trans and enjoy the car. Over time, you'll get the $$$ back
not sure if you are asking a question or answering your own here... I had a '56 with a tired 365. It was expensive to rebuild.. too expensive from me at the time and I sold the car. 472,and 500s can be found cheap, but as stated it is going to be a lot fo work to get it in there. I think what matters the most is this question..Assuming you can do all the fab work yourself. Do you have more time than money or more money than time?
472? WTF? Do you really need to chew through gasoline that badly? Don't be a fool, the 331 is worth rebuilding and no real reason not too. Will be way cheaper and easier and faster to do. Rebuild the 331/trans. and you could be back on the road in a couple of weeks. go with the 472 if you want to stretch that out to months and maybe never and blow a pile of money in the process. If you really know what you are doing and are determined, you can of course pop the 472 in there somehow in short time, but you seem to indicate no go reason to do that. 331 = cool, 472 = probably lame.
Tuned properly that 472 should get 16-17 mpg, I get 12.5 mpg in a 67 chev ramp truck with 472 and 700r4 with near 10 thou pounds total hauling weight.
Jeez, make up your mind already. Only you know your skill level, ambition, and what you want. A 472/500 swap would be fine IF you have some basic fabrication skills and know you can finish the job. If it was easy, everybody would be doing it. You seem to have answered your own question, if you're not up to a major project like that, pull the tired old 331, freshen it up (and get your checkbook out, it's not gonna be cheap!) and get your feet wet building that. Save the 472 idea for the next project.
Regardless of how expensive the rebuild parts are for a 331, unless it needs a complete major rebuild with new pistons, crank, etc., it is just some rings, gaskets, basic machine work, etc. Can't be that expensive and can't be any more expensive than getting a whole new motor that then also requires a bunch of fab work and time to make it fit and work properly. If you are getting a good 472 in a swap for the 331, that is a consideration, but why is someone trading the the 472/trans. for the 331 if the 331 is apparently such a dog to rebuild? Is the other person a fool? Apparently the other person doesn't think so. I am not clear on the deal, I still stick to thinking rebuilding the original 331 will be cheaper, faster and better than trying to swap in the 472.
The cost of rebuilding a 331 is in the neighborhood of 3-4 k. If the engine is still running but tired, you may be able to add piston rings, rod and main bearings, new oil pump, gaskets, etc... and get what you need for now. The transmission rebuild will probably cost around 2,500 or more. The 472 rebuild isn't cheap either. It's not quite as expensive as the 331 but it's not far off. The deal with the 472-500 series is that you can still find good engines that still have plenty of time left on the clock for reasonable money. If you are on a tight budget my recommendation would be to install a 350/350 in the car to get it back on the road. A sbc conversion is pretty simple and cost effective. Then you can decide on which Cadillac engine you want to rebuild as you have the neccesary funds. My pick is the 472. They don't look as cool as the 331 but I personally prefer them because of the torque and horsepower increase that they bring. Another big plus is the TH 400 tranny. Much less expensive to rebuild and a lot more reliable.
Go with the 472 and mate it to a turbo 200 from a 80's gm diesel pickup or diesel car. you can definatly squeek some decent mileage out of one of a 472/500. With the torque they produce you don't need as much skinny pedal. I'm almost finished with the 500 I'm putting in my merc.
Time for me to weigh in here...the above prices are NOT the rule... My recommendation: find a local builder that works out of his home garage...not a pro shop to rebuild your engine and it won't cost you that much. We asked several guys around the Denver area for prices on rebuilding a stock '54 Caddy 331" V8...it started at $1500.00 and went to $5500.00, the last guy said "my reputation as an engine builder relies on me using only the best parts in your 331." Prolly true, but we didn't need someone's reputation to power the Caddy down the road. So we opted for the middle of the road priced guy... My bro just had a local guy rebuild his '54 Caddy 331"...everything NEW except the crank and rods --boil the blok, .40 over on the bore, new pistons, rings, bearings, rebuild the oil pump, new freeze plugs, grind valves, seats, rebuild the lifters, rebuild the water pump, all new gaskets...all for $1600.00. BEFORE AFTER I have a 500" Caddy in my '55, he told me he can do the same for it for $1500.00 -1800.00...seriously, that's not much more than a rebuild on an SBC...and you don't have to mess with changing/building motor mounts, tranny mounts, etc. It's also my opinion that the stock '55 rear end can handle anything an SBC can dish out... On to the tranny...we found a local guy, owns a tranny shop specalizing in nothing but tranny rebuilds...especially older stuff...he took my bro's stock '54 Caddy Hydramatic and went thru all of it...the clutches were burnt bad and some were actually burned together, he replaced a "cluster" of four gear sets cuz some of them had teeth missing...and all new gaskets and whatever else it needed, and then took his time to bolt it up to the engine when it was done...did it all for $1700.00...but the whole car drives like a dream now...is quiet like a Caddy should be and the tranny shifts like it's supposed to. As for a T-400 behind the 472", that's the way I'd go...you can prolly get that redone for less than $500 (you could around here anyway...!!!). I have a T-400 behind my 500"...and it cost me $400 to have redone. My friend has a '56 with a 500" in it and he has a 200 R-4 behind his and the stock rear end...his complete engine rebuild just cost him $1700.00... I think you just need to go out and check with the independents and rodders around your area...ask each of them if they know other guys that can help you...most will know someone that may be able to...and that's the way I handle any part of building a car... My build: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=329070&highlight=the+best+55+caddy+build R-
im very much happy with the 331/Hydro combo in my cad, yeah getting the hydro rebuilt was costly, but its more of a style thing and the fact that its not just giving up and putting something else in.
True, not all Cadillac engine work is not going to be in the 3500 to 4500 dollar range. A good quality engine rebuild kit will cost 900 to 1200. If you have to pay someone to rebuild the engine and put it back together, that's another cost you'll have to factor in. Another point to consider is any machine work that will have to be done, and that is not cheap. By the time you rebuild the 331 and the hydromatic you are easily looking at 4,000 at least. If you have the funds to spend to keep the original equipment in the car, that is a good thing I guess. But, from what I understand, the point is that you didn't want to drop that much cash into this car right now and I don't blame you for that.
My '52 Caddy had a 425 in it when I got it. The swap wasn't finnished yet. Here's what I ran into. 1) motor/tranny mounts were changed. 2) shift linkage was modified. 3) Radiator could not handle the heat produced by the 425. 4) cross member had to be notched and boxed to allow for the oil filter location. 5) Drive shaft had to be cut and modified. 6) rearend had to be changed do to the 425/472/500 only reving to 4200rpm. Freeway speeds were killing me with the stock rearend. That's a few things off the top of my head. Hope it helps.
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