331 hemi's for sale, what are they worth?

I stumbled across two 331 Hemis for sale, the problem is they are the early style with the bell housing cast onto the block. What would be a fair price to pay for the pair?

Also, how hard are they to attach a later model transmission?

Thanks for the help in advance!!

 

They are easy to adapt to a stick, PITA if you're thinking A/T. Probably not more than 800 each, often much less for a complete rebuildable core, nonrunning.

 

Value depends on whether they will turn over, run, what's missing etc. If they need a rebuild, be prepared they cost a bit more for parts than a typical SBC, machine work costs about the same.

I had an extended bell 331 that I picked up an adater from Wilcap in California. They're about $600.

Also, if you want to run a 4bbl, you need a 1954 chrysler intake. Sometimes a bit pricey...

 

Vintage drags, I have noticed that very few engines have been selling on e-bay recently.
I have several 392's and 354's for sale at a fair price and no bites.
I have seen several parts selling for more than the complete engines.
It seems that people are only repairing or building what they have now.

 

Do you have any pix? Often the general look of an engine is a helpful indicator of condition. The other biggie, IMO, is whether they turn fairly freely. Despite the problems mentioned in the early design, they are still Hemis and look good in 'rods. And they are trad. Dead stock in '51, they had more hp than the Caddy and the Olds 88. Though I'm obviously biased, I think the Ford flatty and the MoPar Hemis are the quintessential EARLY hotrod engines.


So, even if you don't want them yourself, I'd think they'd be worth getting, if you can get them reasonably, compared to the full going rate. Even locked up, two engines gives you a better chance of having enough good parts to build one solid engine.

Since the guy has TWO, why not make him a package offer, with cash in hand? He won't shoot you for making a fair offer (long as you don't insult him by really low-balling, you know?). Horse-trading, to me, is a fun element of this hobby. As HAMBer LN7Nut says, there's never any harm in asking! Two Hemis? I'd have a hard time letting them go by without trying to strike a deal. And the fact that the market is down right now could be advantageous to you.

As George and 51Chev said, though, you need to be the judge of condition. Gauge your offer by that.

 

wilcap 331 to 727 adapter

 

If you go to the Hemi Tech Index (link is in my signature, click on the picture) you will find a thread with a bunch of links to "What's It Worth" threads. Check them out. You will also find a bazillion threads on adapting to them as well.

Will be a piece of cake to adapt a manual transmission. Not as easy for an automatic.

We would need a LOT more information to tell you what they're worth. Could be worth scrap value, could be worth $1500+ a piece. You gotta' give us more information.

Are they complete? Is the starter housing there? How/what were they used for? Are they frozen? What color are they? Blah blah blah... Give us more!

 

Hey Scott
As shown the TF can be adapted if you don't mind hacking off the bell and using the rather small front pump bolts....but...there will be another option coming next year. I am putting the finishing touches on an adapter to mount the Ford C-4. Since it is designed with a removable bell it is easier to source later on. There is no shortage of hot-rod parts for the C-4 and they are well proven with big hp engines.

Gary

 

I have a 330 Desoto Hemi rebuilt that I would sell for $2000.00

 

Exactly! Looking forward to seeing this come together, Gary!

 

I just don't think I could bolt a Ford or GM transmission behind a Hemi, makes my skin crawl . . .

 

Why?

 

Maybe a hudson or a Studebaker or Rambler.

 

I was watching a '55 New Yorker engine on eBay. It was complete and running on a stand. The guy even had a YouTube video of it running. It went for $1125. Unless you need an extended bell engine for a specific restoration application, I don't think they would be worth over $500 if they weren't running. Probably scrap if they don't turn over by hand. Things are so bad out there right now that I've taken my "running on a stand" '56 truck 331 off the market. Hopefully things will get better in a year or two. (I said that in 2008 as well).

 

Times are changing. People are realizing that you can do a lot with the early 331 Engines and all the others are getting expensive and harder to find in buildable condition. It was inevitable.

Anyone that doesn't want their extended bell 331 engines can just send 'em right on over to me.

 

Guess Jimmy White's coupe is a real piece of crap then... Extended bell 331 with a GM Super T-10 4-speed and it's in a Ford.

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People have been putting Hemis in all sorts and makes of cars since they found their way into a hot rodders hands. And people have been adapting all kinds of transmissions to them forever. LaSelle transmissions included. Never heard of anyone having a problem with it... Interesting.

Just sayin'...

 

Well, to be perfectly honest, a c-4 is/was not my first choice, however, it is a good choice.
When you wack off the TF bell you now have a one-off. If you need to replace it for whatever reason then out comes the sawzall...again.
The C-4 is readily available (look thru a Summit catalogue), quite durable, and the racers have built them with huge success.
They are nicely compact, fairly light, and did I mention readily available?
The deciding factor, at least for me, was the removable bell.

I might be looking for a 'test' mule next year.....

Gary

 

I love it when the HEMI HAMB guys all jump in and try to help in various situations. You guys are da bomb.

I think a lot of people get scared off from buying the early FirePowers when the extension, inevitably, gets mentioned. But I have a gut feeling that the extension could be removed (then re-machined) if one could find a shop that still uses "ArcAir," if any do. I saw guys who were artists with ArcAir, and it was fast, nobody even sweated all that much. Awesome to see it in action.

I guess I'm like AJMoPar, though, in that I feel a more modern 727 or a Chrysler 4sp would be a little closer to TRAD, though they're technically toward the end of HAMB confines. Anybody know how well the 904 functions with the whales? I have to at least ASK.

 

They can be cut off &, typically, an adaptor is welded to the block (not enough there to drill bell holes?) Has to be precision to get everything in the right place.

 

Thanks, George! I'll bet that bit of advice will be invaluable to some HAMBers, given how expensive the '51 to '53 would be to work. You guys may just give a few folks the confidence to PROCEED when thwey're worried about, maybe, getting backed into a corner, moneywise.

 

The extended bell can be machined off, but WHY would anyone go through all this??? by the time you have everything machined correctly, pay for materials, weld it all up, you've MORE than paid for a standard late '54 or '55 331 block unless you have the materials, the milling capabilities to index all those holes correctly and make a jig to hold it all perfectly concentric to the crankshaft center-line, and the welding abilities to weld that up. There are still plenty of later 331 blocks out there.

I think the adapter that Gary is talking about will be great for those who don't mind putting a non-Mopar automatic transmission behind one of these early 331 blocks. For that matter, if someone was going to go through all the effort of machining off that bell and machining a plate to weld on, why wouldn't the effort just be made to make an adapter for an automatic instead??

I don't know... Maybe I'm wrong.

 

Thanks my HAMB Brothers, will be going to look at them this weekend. They have been skipped over by my friends because of the extended bell. They are complete but do not know if they turn over. With the price of what the owner is selling his other stuff, someone will be able to get them both for next to nothing. After looking at them, I will post pics and what deal was worked out for them.

Again, thanks guys!!

Oh yeah, the c4 adapter sounds interesting. Over the past few days I have done some reasearch on the tf adapter but now that there is going to be a c4 adapter where one won't have to cut the bell, that makes my mouth water.

 

Any news?????????????????????

 

Yeah, you can use the rods and heads, rockers, and probably the crank and oil pump and pan too. Just all depends on what year block you get. There are some minor mods you may have to make to drop the heads on a later block (dowl pins are a different size and return oil holes may have to be modified slightly depending on the block you get). The early heads have smaller valves and round exhaust ports, but if you're building just going to run for fun in that Vicky, you can do plenty with the early heads. Easy enough to switch later as well.

Let me know what you end up doing with the early 331 block. I'm interested... or course!

 

Cranks for the 51-53 are different than 54 up.
51-54 water pumps and intake manifolds are different than 55 up.
The oil fill is in the chain case cover.
All 331 and 354 rods are the same.
If you swap heads be sure to account for all of the differences.

.

 

That picture rules! As Jeff says... DO IT!

You have to use a "wet" style intake for early heads or Industrial style heads.

I need to look over the crank stuff again, but I think that crank will work in a later 331 block without issues. Worst case, when you adapt your transmission you can probably specify your flywheel offset be different with Pat at Wilcap. I really need to go back and look at that thread about the cranks, though. Gary had things really mapped out well with P/N vs dimensions.

EDIT: Looks like Gary was typing at the same time. There's your answer. Just chat with Pat about the crank boss offset in the flywheel so you can use your existing crank. Probably cheaper than buying and prepping a new crank.

 

I think you will find the '51-53 cranks have smaller oil feed holes.

 

I still have a '56 Desoto 330 Hemi with low miles for sale. $2000