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Projects '33 5w Build Thread

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by CTaulbert, Oct 27, 2018.

  1. CTaulbert
    Joined: Apr 8, 2007
    Posts: 1,006

    CTaulbert
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Detroit

    I've had this car for a little bit, so it's probably time that I pull together a build thread to document the work......

    I started keeping an eye out for a Model 40 coupe last year. I'm impartial to a 3w or a 5w, but a '33 was higher on the list than a '34. My main goal was to find a nice car that didn't need a lot of repair work, allowing me to get started on the things I wanted to do.

    A friend of a friend had his '33 5w for sale in the southwest. After a call to get the details, I knew the car would be the best one I could find. Aside from some emailed photos, the first time I laid hands on it was when it was unloaded from a carrier (I bought it sort of sight unseen).

    Supposedly, a Southern California car, it had been updated to an Olds V8, Hydramatic, and an Olds rearend on parallel leafs in the '60s, before moving to the southwest. The front suspension consisted of a dropped stock axle, split wishbones, and a F1 steering box. The body has never been repaired, nor did it need any repair work. The only alterations were a cut firewall to accommodate the Olds.

    It was last configured for a sbc and a NV1500 trans. The x-member was nicely repaired from the Hydramatic, and the Olds rear end remained. For anyone who knows Model 40 stuff, grilles can be a money pit, and this car has an extremely nice grille, with what I believe is original chrome.

    26814836_974138402209_518702986477172420_n.jpg 26804634_974138407199_8442285868240862761_n.jpg 26993646_974138781449_3826403076876398942_n.jpg 26904193_974138831349_5802245885679153396_n.jpg 26804878_974138801409_6727281812398041072_n.jpg
     
  2. CTaulbert
    Joined: Apr 8, 2007
    Posts: 1,006

    CTaulbert
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Detroit

    The car sat idle for the early part of this year, as we were preoccupied with our annual trip to LSRU, and getting the roadster prepped for the big roadtrip out west. I did find some time to try out some ideas I was kicking around for the headlights though. I had hung a pair of 682-Js on it for the previous photos, and knew I wanted to get them lower on the fenders.

    I started out with a pair of old aftermarket chopped headlight stands, which lowered the buckets one inch. From there, I drilled the rivets out of the Guide mounting plates, so that I could move them to the inside of the buckets, and "up" even more. When I repositioned the mounting plates upward by 1 1/8", I also moved the buckets forward by 5/8". This was done to restore the fore/aft relationship between the grille and headlights when looking at the car from the side.
    34284561_10100099713510659_8720864419455696896_n.jpg
    34509906_10100099713555569_7639485391984132096_n.jpg

    A couple shots showing the change:
    34308717_10100099713495689_2306051882063233024_n.jpg 34368424_10100099713430819_87354455070081024_n.jpg

    And the product on the car:
    34463155_10100099713365949_8290888285606117376_n.jpg 34345905_10100099713390899_4496365910306586624_n.jpg 34308703_10100099713435809_6122277195260887040_n.jpg
     
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  3. brady1929
    Joined: Sep 30, 2006
    Posts: 7,648

    brady1929
    Member
    from Mesa, Az

    Considering the hot rods you have built in the past, I am sure that this is going to be good.
     
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  4. bobbooth
    Joined: Mar 8, 2006
    Posts: 348

    bobbooth
    Member
    from limeyland

    Nice work , looking forward to updates
     
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  5. alfin32
    Joined: Jun 20, 2006
    Posts: 1,134

    alfin32
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Essex, Ma.

  6. CTaulbert
    Joined: Apr 8, 2007
    Posts: 1,006

    CTaulbert
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Detroit

    With a chop destined for the car, I began prepping the car for the work. I started off with fitting all of the front sheet metal to ensure everything fit well to the cowl (in case I need to shim any parts). Once that was done, I removed all of the interior wood.
    42385062_10100122177587469_3064700658822152192_o.jpg 42560366_10100122770773719_6319338322095243264_o.jpg

    '33-34s seem to often suffer from door misalignment to the quarters. I followed some tips from Bill Ganahl to cut and offset the hinges to correct the issue. I measured the offset on each door, and got to work.
    42985416_10100123772002249_4303690443297652736_o.jpg

    First, I fabbed quick and dirty, but heavy duty, hinge pin press. All but one pin came out with ease. The one that put up a fight had apparently been broken inside the body side hinge for some time, and had to be drilled.
    43038239_10100123771912429_1748398671289909248_o.jpg
    42999690_10100123774701839_5401600838546227200_o.jpg
     
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  7. CTaulbert
    Joined: Apr 8, 2007
    Posts: 1,006

    CTaulbert
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Detroit

    Once the hinges were off, I clamped some blocks to my welding table to act as a quick fixture. It kept the length (in and out flushness) of the hinge the same, and allowed me to offset the soon to be cut pieces with shims of the necessary amount. With the pieces clamped in, I TIG'd them back together, dressed the welds, and rehung the doors to confirm good door alignment.
    43417504_10100124376880069_5100937236447232000_o.jpg
    43188946_10100124376919989_9000147584160890880_o.jpg
    43198591_10100124376954919_6736241743726903296_o.jpg
     
  8. flamedabone
    Joined: Aug 3, 2001
    Posts: 4,238

    flamedabone
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The only thing that bothered me in the before pic was the headlight height, but you got that handled. Very nice little car, please post lots of pics.

    -Abone.
     
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  9. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 12,521

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Any pics of what happened to the gap all the way around the door when you raised it?
     
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  10. I really like that green! Nice car Cory!
     
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  11. Pete
    Joined: Mar 8, 2001
    Posts: 4,356

    Pete
    Member

    Great tech and pin removal tool.

    I just did the same thing on a 5 window, I converted 4 door hinges to 5 window coupe. I ended up cutting the completely apart as you did.
     
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  12. Nice project-again!
    I like the hinge pin press. Is that a section of pin punch in the tool, that the drive bolt pushes against?
     
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  13. I guess it's easier to adjust the rest of the gaps once the reveals are in line at the hinge end.
     
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  14. 34lakegood.jpg Great work so far. Love the car but I'm a little biased toward 33 ford 5 windows.
    BTW, mine [avatar] is cut 3.5 inches. No lean on the A-posts.
     
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  15. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 14,248

    loudbang
    Member

    This is going to be good judging by you past projects this one will be a beauty also. :)
     
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  16. catdad49
    Joined: Sep 25, 2005
    Posts: 2,242

    catdad49
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Sorry Guys, I kind of like it "as found", maybe with a few little tweeks like those already done. Whatever comes next should be good, I'm in!
     
  17. Bam.inc
    Joined: Jun 25, 2012
    Posts: 602

    Bam.inc
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Salina, KS

    This should be good, subscribed for learning 33-34 tech.

    . . .
     
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  18. CTaulbert
    Joined: Apr 8, 2007
    Posts: 1,006

    CTaulbert
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Detroit

    The doors only moved about 0.100" upward, so the gaps didn't change much on this car. The b-pillar gaps are kind of tight on this car, so as much as I'd hate to disturb the paint, I think I'll end up gapping the doors to make them consistent.
     
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  19. CTaulbert
    Joined: Apr 8, 2007
    Posts: 1,006

    CTaulbert
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Detroit

    That's actually the end of the acme screw turned down to slightly under the OD of a hinge pin.
     
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  20. CTaulbert
    Joined: Apr 8, 2007
    Posts: 1,006

    CTaulbert
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Detroit

    The car is already chopped, but I need to get the thread caught up!
     
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  21. CTaulbert
    Joined: Apr 8, 2007
    Posts: 1,006

    CTaulbert
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Detroit

    My first plan for this car was to build a big cubic inch flathead for it with an OT induction system, though an early Cadillac has always been in the back of my mind. Driving through the Eisenhower tunnel at nearly 12,000' in the roadster made me revisit the OHV idea, especially with a heavier car and more frontal area. When I got back from the trip, I mentioned the Cadillac idea to a friend, who just happened to have another friend with one for sale locally. I went to check out the engine, and decided to pick it up.

    The back story on this engine is that it came from a '33 Chevy coupe project that had been sitting dormant since the early '70s. The engine is a '57 365, with an Offenhauser 6x2 manifold, Holley 2110 carbs, a Mallory RevPol distributor, a Trans-Dapt Cadillac to Chevy trans adapter, and Weber aluminum flywheel/pressure plate/disc. The car had been set up for a Muncie and Olds rear end, so I'm thinking the builder may have had serious intentions?

    When I went to look at it, the owner pulled a valve cover, exposing a set of adjustable rocker arms. Initially I suspected Studebakers, but after some research, they appear to be Gotha rocker arms.
    43245326_10100124474828779_5763497733549719552_o.jpg 43331083_10100124474868699_6300601132129452032_o.jpg
     
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  22. CTaulbert
    Joined: Apr 8, 2007
    Posts: 1,006

    CTaulbert
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Detroit

    The bad news was that something leaked overhead, and water got into a couple of cylinders. Even if the block turned out to be no good, I figured it could serve well as a mock up engine at the very least. What interesting is that this engine was never fired. Once I got it home, I decided to pull a head and the cam to investigate what was inside:

    43243406_10100124474913609_4481380520302739456_o.jpg file1-8.jpeg file-20.jpeg file2-4.jpeg

    The Jahns pistons have some serious pop-ups! I'm not sure what the compression would be, but considering stock form is 10:1, this would've been pretty nasty. The bores are 0.060" over, and I have no idea how thick the walls are on these engines, but maybe it would clean up at 0.080"? The pistons would need to change anyway for something more streetable. The crank and rods are still 365 parts, so this would come in at 375 cubic inches in this configuration.

    I pulled the cam, and found it to be a Crane M282-8 grind. I called Crane to get the specs at 0.050":
    248/248 duration
    0.486"/0.486" lift
    108 LSA

    I think I'll be shooting for something more tamed down, so many of these parts may not make it back. I'm thinking about a 390 crank and rods to get as much torque as possible too.
     
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  23. classiccarjack
    Joined: Jun 30, 2009
    Posts: 730

    classiccarjack
    Member

    Hopefully you can find another 365 block. Or just buy a 390 and transfer over the top end stuff.

    But a Sonic check would give you the final decision for sure...

    BTW, lovely car!

    Sent from my Moto Z (2) using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  24. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 12,505

    F&J
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Super Good score on all the Cad stick parts, and the rockers. That stuff is not easy to find in original vintage pieces.

    I have no idea what your driving use plan is, but I know these Cad/Olds motors have tons of torque without a need for a longer stroke in a small Ford body.

    I was looking at the pressure plate...it looks like early Olds. I'm not sure if the fingers would line up with a chevy TOB? I never tried that.
    .
     
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  25. CTaulbert
    Joined: Apr 8, 2007
    Posts: 1,006

    CTaulbert
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Detroit

    The TOB bearing looks like a large Ford, but fits the small fork with the Trans-Dapt setup. I'll most likely have this flywheel drilled for a GM diaphragm pressure plate, and will run the matching TOB.
    file-21.jpeg
     
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  26. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 8,582

    Atwater Mike
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Good thinking on the GM cover drilling. With the adapter, fork, and tranny being Chev type, best to use diaphragm cover and matching disc.

    That LOVELY '33 deserves the Cad, and the best driveline for it!
     
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  27. lumpy 63
    Joined: Aug 2, 2010
    Posts: 297

    lumpy 63
    Member

    Watching this one for sure! Totally envious ! 33 5 window with a Cad and a stick:rolleyes:
     
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  28. jnaki
    Joined: Jan 1, 2015
    Posts: 2,686

    jnaki





    Hey C,

    My first real hot rod ride was in an Olds powered 33-34 Ford 5 window coupe back in 1958-59. My brother’s friend had built a black 5 window with a myriad of wheels, hubcaps, Moon Discs, and spinners for the all around look of a street hot rod of the era. It was his daily driver to high school and on the weekends, he went to Lions, like we all did back then. He lived about three blocks from our Long Beach house and right behind the famous Foster’s Freeze Ice Cream building corner.

    That 5 window was one of the fastest hot rods in my brother’s Long Beach group. It was a winner in the A/Gas coupe class at Lions. He and another friend swapped different Olds motors over the years. The famous Tom McEwen was a neighbor of his friend and even though the 5 window was the same, McEwen could not get a better time than my brother’s friends at Lions.

    In a recent discussion with my brother’s friend, he can’t remember who he sold the 5 window to or where it went, other than, … “it was out of state back then…” in the early 60s. Since it has been several owners, many changes could have been made. One of the early thing hot rodders did for traction was to weld the spider gears in the stock rear end. The side effect was many hard driving episodes, chirping of the tires when turning, and although traction was great, broke a lot of axles, too.

    Luckily, another high school friend’s dad had an auto scrap yard with tons of parts and axles for the 5 window Ford. On this particular street, there was this auto scrap yard, a steel reclaiming company, and another welding shop. All of the bases were covered, just a few short blocks from home.

    Since you think this 5 window is from California, is there a way to find out from the past owner where he bought it? That would solve a big mystery from waaaaay back in those early Long Beach hot rod days.


    Thanks,

    Jnaki
     
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  29. CTaulbert
    Joined: Apr 8, 2007
    Posts: 1,006

    CTaulbert
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Detroit

    Jnaki,

    What I didn't mention earlier is that this car was supposedly raced at San Fernando. There's no sign of a roll bar (though I don't know what the rules where back then), so I question if the car actually raced, or if it was ever finished? I don't have any more information than that, besides that it came to Arizona in the '60s. It has a '67 California plate on it, but I don't know if that was the plate on the car originally. The car isn't beat up either. During the chop, I uncovered the original black paint on the body.

    The car has an Olds rearend in it, which I assume was transplanted during the engine swap. Unfortunately, I have a loss on getting more info as the 2nd to last owner to me passed away.
     
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  30. Mike Colemire
    Joined: May 18, 2013
    Posts: 614

    Mike Colemire
    Member

    This is going to be cool. Sure is a solid car.
     
    loudbang likes this.

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