TLDR: What's the purpose of doing a larger bore to the 327 when adding a top end kit? Better compression ratio? The Beast is my first car, a 1966 Chevy Caprice - 4 Door. She's powered by a stock 327 with a automatic 2 speed power-glide. She's paired with a holly 4-barrel that I installed 14 years ago at 16, before I knew anything about engines. She's been sitting in my dads garage for 12 years now. At 30, I'm living clear across the country and he wants his garage back. The best way I can think of to get her here is to go home for a month, get her road worthy and drive 4 days back across country. This is my first 8 cylinder rebuild. I've rebuilt two Honda CB motorcycles over the years but I understand that math, science and precision is more important with car engines. The goal for my month back in home is to do a front coil over conversion, front disc conversion and rear drum rebuild, new tires, engine build and transmission swap (TH350 or TH400) plus an upgraded radiator, brake lines, fuel lines, pumps, master cylinders, etc. At 4,000 pounds, the Beast needs more power/torque to realistically be a driver. The general plan is to rebuild the 327 with something like this Edelbrock top end kit to simplify the millions of options for cams/heads/etc. What I'm unclear on, is other than adjusting the compression ratio, what's the point of boring the cylinders and using larger pistons.
@Jury08 ..... That is a pretty ambitious plan to accomplish in 30 days. If your primary goal is to get the Caprice to your present residence I would suggest you focus on getting the engine operating reliably, not overhauling it at this time. Carburetion, ignition, cooling system and fuel system would be the critical areas to prepare for a four day cross country trip. Of course brakes and tires are an equal priority. Just getting those systems in shape for the trip will likely occupy your thirty day time allowance. I worked for a Chevy store in 1965 when the Caprice was a late year introduction, soon followed by the ‘66s, which I thought were really nice looking and well appointed. Best wishes with your project. Ray
And why does all that have to be done to drive 3000 miles? They drove hundreds of thousands of miles when new with all the stock parts. Either wait or trailer it. And to answer your original question, there's no replacement for displacement.
The only real reason to bore cylinders is to correct wear in the bores. If engine ran good before, use the time at your Dad's to inspect and correct safety items in the car, and if time permits do some upgrades(brakes, etc) As a father of a 30 year old, who lives 3000 miles from me too, I'd enjoy leisurely time in shop with him, to work on car and visit. Productive and Proud. Just my .02.
NoboD has it right. Unless it’s wounded spend time and money on other stuff. For that matter people were traveling cross country for decades with drum brakes.
I'm in agreement with just get it running "DEPENDABLY", and consider getting new tires on it for the cross country drive. Brakes may need a good looking at. Big car (4000 lbs!) needs a big engine, and I'd go with a 454/TH400 as opposed to the 327, that is a good engine, just not the best for a big car. They are on Craig's List all the time, sometimes very reasonably, sometimes for ridiculous prices. I too have an "OT" Chevrolet, and I won't mention the year since we have a 1965 cutoff for posting. The 454/TH400 is what I'm doing; I also have a 12 bolt to swap in. This car is meant to be my "old man car"/Sportsman Bracket drag car. Biscayne 4 door, that arrived here from Oklahoma with a 250 six, Powerglide, with the only option being air conditioning, and the left front brake was locking up when the pedal was just touched; the car's in really nice shape, but I gave the engine/trans to a fellow HAMBER, and he had to pull them. You might want to look into having it transported to you; it might cost $800.00 to $1000.00 depending on how far it has to go. This COVID19 has affected everything, and I imagine their costs have dropped due to less demand. You never know what you're going to find with a car that's been sitting for so long; time takes it's toll. Do the work after it gets home. JMO. ChevyTalk.Org has a forum specific to your car/model/year, that I'm also am a member of for my various Chevrolet's, and only my 56 Chevrolet Sedan Delivery "qualifies" for this site. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
What all was wrong with the car when you parked it? A 327 with a 4 barrel should have enough power for cruising. The powerglide has the same 1to1 final ratio as a th350 or th400 so you would only gain a middle gear and a slightly higher first gear. I agree with the disc brakes people are stupid and drive like crap stopping is important. I would make sure the fuel system is clean and up to par fuel pump could be crap and carb probably needs cleaned plus filter changed. 3000 isn't far if nothing breaks but with problems it can seem like a million. Sent from my SM-J327R4 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
In those 12 years has it just set or has dear old dad fired it up occasionally and taken it around the block. If your return is a hard date, you should probably spend 2 1/2 weeks working on the car, then drive it around locally to check it out. Then give yourself 6 or 7 days to make the 4 day trip. Invite an adventurous friend to make the return trip with you and load up on bubblegum, bailing wire and duct tape. Maybe even a few wire ties.
Thanks for the thoughts and all the advice here. I got the impression before I posted that the Chevy wasn't quite right for this site but browsing through the forums, there's a lot of knowledge and technical discussions which is the goal.The car hasn't been started since probably 2010 which is why I wanna rebuild the engine. Every gasket and rubber is probably dry and cracking. The radiator was in bad shape. The main reason for doing so much work while back home is because there's space and I can work remotely. My pops has a garage and I'd have the network of old-car guys back home to help out. Plus, Ohio is massively cheaper than my home in Seattle when it comes to paying a shop for machine work, etc. I've got a driveway and 400 sq. ft. apartment in Seattle to work versus a two car garage in Ohio and plenty of helpers. The car ran great when I parked it in 2008 and I'm willing to bet that some new fluids, plugs and a battery would result in it running well again. That being said, the brakes were squishy as hell and if you hit a bump, you were still bouncing a mile down the road. Now that I've got the cash for parts and enough know-how/blind confidence to do the work, I figure it'd be a great way to spend a month with my dad, grandpa and father in law getting the thing running well and driving. Upgrading the brakes and suspension is a priority. The engine I'm fairly confident I can get done with the help of a machine shop and some knowledgeable family. Once I get it home to Seattle, I can start saving away for body work and interiors.
One more vote for just going though the drum brakes which is at most a one day job and not many dollars, check the suspension for worn out pieces such as bushings or ball joints and give it a good lube job. Maybe a set of shocks if the ones on it are shot. I just cannot see the wisdom of putting coil overs on a 66 Caprice 4 door. A total waste of time and money. The other option to spending the money and rushing though building the 327 is to find a good running small block of what ever size as long as it runs great and has good oil pressure and isn't very expensive, pull the 327, stick the runner in, get things hooked up and load the 327 in the trunk for the ride to it's new home to be built on a more comfortable time line. Then sell the runner as a runner that the buyer can actually see run before you pull it. That even lets you drive the car until the 327 is exactly the way you want it. Mainly I am saying use your time that you have to put it together wisely and don't waste a lot of time doing pie in the sky things that eat a lot of time and a lot of money and really crimp you timeline.
I'll throw out another vote for just getting it safe and dependable enough to make the trip. You can rebuild the entire brake system in a day, or if you do the disk conversion add a day or two. Get the radiator rebuilt since you said it was in rough shape. New fluids, flush out the old fuel, new fuel filter, new fuel pump, rebuild carburetor, new tires, then drive it for a couple weeks. Your 30-day window to do all of the stuff in your original post is way too ambitious. When someone does a thrash like that to meet a deadline, they usually end up staying awake for two days and two nights before departure trying to get all the little crap finished, crawl into the car wearing greasy clothes several hours past your deadline, trying to close your red eyes as much as possible so you don't bleed out, and pull off on the side of the road 30 minutes later for an 18 hour nap.
Lots of decent crate engines out there. 383 would pull the Beast around pretty well. Order one and have it shipped to where the car is and meet it there. 1 or 2 days it can be in and running. ( good ones can come already dynode, carb to pan with decent warranties ). Transmission can be done the same way. Spend the rest of the time on the other things at an easy pace. Like mr48chev said, don't see the advantage of coil overs on that car.
Good lord...you're talking about 6 months worth of work in 30 days...AND you haven't even talked about the stuff that will kill you. If the car hasn't moved in 10 years, every rubber part from the steering wheel to the spindles is probably dry rotted. Then there's tierod ends, idler arms, ball joints, wheel cyl, master cyl, brake hoses, brake lines...and that's if those parts are available (better start ordering now). Crap filled gas tank and new fuel lines will be an issue too. There's 30 days right there
Get it up and running and run a compression test to see what condition it really is in and go from there. Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Have you ever driven across this country? There are places where the next gas is 300 miles. I did it this summer,and saw nothing older than 2005 on the highway.Old cars can break parts that dont break.One of the members here had a axle drive line part from 1962-ish fail last fall,and there was a good effort done on this forum to find the only replacement in a thousand miles,and find him a place to repair the car.You have to be willing to do major repair in the motel 6 parking lot.Ive done it,and so have others here. Hire it shipped,and rent a stall/storage unit out side of Seattle in a cheaper small town for a month.
Yes, I can tell you what it's like to drive "cross country". First time was to register and check out the college and training hospital, down and back. Then a few weeks later, back down again. Lynnwood, Wa. to Tyler Tx. in 42 hours STRAIGHT the first time; only stops were for gas and bathroom breaks. Done in a new Chevette Scooter (and without air conditioning!). Then back and forth to see my dying Father, and finally after graduation, despite the fact that I was the only one offered a job out of 19 students in the Radiologic Technologist program. In hindsight, I should have taken the job, but I won't got into the details here. But, I had to get home to help with my Mother and see my girlfriend (wife for 32 years now). Tough drive, especially alone, and when you go through the Rockies; you're so high in elevation, and the air's so thin, your car just does't make any power. I remember, at one point, I had the "Vette" in first gear, foot to the floor, and I thought I might have to get out and push the car! Not kidding there. Did't go the same way each the times. I'd NEVER do anything like that again. As far as your car goes, you said you had installed an aftermarket intake manifold and carburetor, but it was probably a 2 barrel engine originally; so low horsepower, lower compression ratio (8 or 8.5:1), and the Powerglide could either have a 1.82 first gear, or a 1.76 first gear. My guess would be it came with the 1.82 being a small V-8 with a 2 barrel, but the 1.76 planetary is much stronger, even though there's only .06 difference in the ratios. Get yourself an aluminum radiator, delivered to your Father's home , and get the biggest since you really don't know what engine you'll wind up with. Drain the fuel tank, and wash it out a couple of times with fresh gas that you can reuse a time or two in the process; you and a friend can push the car back and forth, side to side, and drain the gas out at the fuel pump using and electric pump (you're in Seattle and can borrow my setup). Change out all the rubber hoses, spark plugs, distributor parts, coil, change the oil and filter, change out the ATF and filter in the Powerglide, change the rear end gear lube, rebuild the brakes completely (again, the Rockies and other mountain ranges; you want good brakes!), wiper blades, and tires (including spare), coolant, and exhaust system. Then, some tools, a few spare parts, a decent jack, and some sections of 4 X 4 wood. Check all the lights out. If you're doing this alone, then a cell phone for sure. And finally, $$$$$, but well hidden in the car; you only carry a few $$$ in your wallet. If you believe in firearms, then that's a big yes to have. Where in Seattle do you park yourself? I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
Only problem with counting on a cell phone as a travel back up plan is there are real big holes in coverage in the the center of the country.The Phone carriers claim 90 percent in their ads,but it aint so.After I left Reno going east I tried letting the folks in Wisconsin know how the trip progressed.Nothing,but searching/roaming until you hit a good size town. Bring water in the summer.The Highway patrol doesnt make hourly passes in mid America like they do in Calif.
There is a Lot of GREAT infomation on this Page Listen to it.....! I run a 327/300 with a Powerglide in a 3500 lb. car & i went through the Brakes & Suspension so it Road worthey Algona56 is giving you some Very Good Info. I would Spend as Much Time with your Farther as you can.! And Thank him for Bringing you up the way he Did.! That will make His Day I told my Farther that while he was still on earth. and My son had told me that & I felt like a Million Dollars. Just my 3.5 cents Live Learn & Die a Fool
Precision is just as important with a bike, proper tolerances are important even if you are building a lawn mower motor. The real reason to bore one is to make it right unless you are shooting for a specific Cubic Inch displacement. Most engines get bored on an overhaul to cure one or both of two things. The cylinders to piston diameter being out of tolerance or to cure cylinder taper being out of reasonable range. Think about this, your '66 Chebby came with a 327 and stock it cruised just fine. If it needs to be overhauled it needs to be overhauled. But stock for a cruiser the 327 was more then enough mill.
As mentioned, it sounds like more steak than you can chew in that time frame. Before I even started I would enlist dad and some of those car guys to look things over, try and fire the engine, test drive if possible and just generally triage the car. If it looks doable you could have parts waiting for you when you hit the ground. I would however keep my options open to the fact that it might be easier to make SOME repairs but haul the thing home on a Uhaul trailer.
So the question is about "why bore an engine", and then the story comes out about why you're asking it. It's actually a good question, but all the advice here about just getting the car road ready are right on the money. You may want to do a top end on the car when you get it home, but the first step is just getting it home. Spend your resources wisely, just get it running and driving and stopping reliably first, get the thing home, THEN think about what to do with the power train. You're gonna need a new battery, you've got to get the old bad gas out of the tank and the system and fresh gas into it, You may need to rebuild the carb, blow out all the gum and varnish that's developed while it sat; or maybe not if you're lucky. Maybe bring a spare carb with you. Change the oil & filter. Top off the coolant. Brakes is a major concern, check them out first and see if you got any pedal, then check for leaks. They may work initially, but the wheel cylinders may start leaking because the seals are dried out, and you may get half way home and lose your brakes, so the brakes deserve a great deal of your attention. With the basics covered: starting, driving, & braking, you'd be amazed at how these old cars will cross the country. There's a guy with a youtube channel, Vice Grip Garage, that has a lot of videos of him flying somewhere and picking up some old piece of crap somewhere that's been parked for years, and he gets them started up and drives them home. I find his videos entertaining as hell. Check them out, this is what you're gonna be doing: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=vice+grip+garage Once you get it home, let's have that conversation about boring the cylinders.
Rome wasn't built in a day, and I don't think you can resurrect a 12 year old sleeping giant in 30 days without spending a TON of money, planning WAY ahead, buying a lot of contingency parts, and having a crew to help you. A blown widget in Bumbfuck, Montana would ruin your entire project. Spend and plan wisely...... Find a good transporter (there are several on the H.A.M.B.), line up a workspace in Starbuck'sville, jump on a plane and supervise the transporter loading, and spend some QUALITY time with your Dad. Tackle the rebuild-get-it-roadworthy once it and you are safely in Seattle.
@Jury08 there actually is a formula for more accurately estimating the time a project will require....... First, you make your guesstimate......then, convert that to the next larger unit of time.......then double that figure! Laugh or snicker if you want to, but it has proven more correct many more times than not. And the really strange thing is, people, including me, never learn......the next initial estimate is always way off. go figure Ray
This formula is correct, but should be used as the MINIMUM amount of time it will take. There are guys on this site who have projects they thought would be on the road in a couple of months, and years later they feel lucky if it will roll on wheels.
YOU can do all you want, however there's way too many suppliers who just give you the high hard one when it comes to service and customer relations. The real epidemic lately is sloth and stupidity. "...yup, and it'll ship in a day or so." That "or so" might be a week, a month. Mistakes, wrong parts, incompatibility. I hate to sound harsh and negative but it's only become worse since last year. Can it be dealt with? Sure, but to think it's all sunshine and bluebirds and Mary Poppins showing up with your parts? Likely the MOST ambitious part of the plan. And even if you pre-order before the work, again, what if this don't fit that, superceded part requires more blah-blah, it can be maddening. Try running a biz with a level of reliance on suppliers. I want this to work well for you, but somebody has to set the alarm clock, play devil's advocate. It does bode well the idea of a "drop in" engine/trans get up vs a rebuild. You have a network there as stated, get em looking, talking to your old pals, maybe sombody knows someone ready to ditch their old 396 and T400 cheap for one of those (not allowed to reference em here) engines. Serious fun, you got our support, and you got opinions and ideas. Keep us in the loop
I bought a car that had sat for 30 years, I had it running in a day with zero money invested, $100 on brake parts and we were driving. Spend time cleaning out the fuel tank and you may be surprised how easy it is to get one roadworthy. Just because it’s sat for 12 years doesn’t mean it needs a complete restoration to drive it. Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
Someone wrote about Vice Grip Garage. yes watch that an see what he goes through. He has put stuff on trailers when they just won't make it home
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