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Technical 322 Nailhead to '57 3spd o/d

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Nailhead A-V8, Feb 25, 2017.

  1. Nailhead A-V8
    Joined: Jun 11, 2012
    Posts: 1,343

    Nailhead A-V8
    Member

    After perusing the search engine I wasn't really able to glean a definitive answer so hopefully someone out there has one. I have a driveline dilemma in that my "theme" has recently gone out the window....originally I had planned to build my '28 A with a Ford body/frame/f axle and the rest entirely from a '54 Buick chassis from the smaller series and a roadmaster 322. I set about discovering lots of information some good news like being able to use the buick spindles and front brakes on the I beam and some bad like the 5 bolt top cover 3 spd from the little 264 was a piece of junk and my torque tube rear axle was shot. The smaller 3 spd is described as "having gears made of glass" and the weird shift pattern would require a fat wallet and years of swap meet searches for a shifter or an engineering degree to build one. Since the stupid buick torque tube I lugged around for years puked out a gallon of water I've had to reassess.....I can't afford conversion kits or anything rare or highly sought after even ford 3 spds and rear ends don't come up on my local craigslist much but I do have a '57 chev rear axle so my question is:
    1) Can I use the 264 bellhousing and flywheel (re-weighted to 322) /clutch etc with the '57 Chev 3 spd?
    2) is the bell centre hole the same size?
    3) do I have enough meat to drill out mounting holes or are they completely different?
    4) what about the shaft? different lengths/splines or similar?
    5) is pilot bearing size different?
    Any helpful thoughts or advice will be much appreciated - thanks!
     

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    Last edited: Mar 3, 2017
  2. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 6,916

    tubman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I don't have any definitive knowledge about this, but I have worked with both the old Buick transmissions and the tri-five transmissions. My recollection tells me that the Chevy mounting holes are a lot further apart than the ones on the Buick bell housing.

    If you have both the engine/bellhousing and transmission, why don't you lay them next to each other and throw a measuring tape on them? That'll give you a quick answer on whether you should even proceed with this. You may get lucky and find someone who has done this and knows for sure, but from what I remember, that may be unlikely. If you don't already have the Chevrolet transmission, I'm sure someone on here can give you rough measurements that will allow yo to see if you're even close.
     
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  3. Nailhead A-V8
    Joined: Jun 11, 2012
    Posts: 1,343

    Nailhead A-V8
    Member

    Thanks tubman yes a couple trans and some measuring devices would be best unfortunately even the buick 3 spd I have is currently buried so deeply I can't get measurements from it right now lol...I tried and ended up put a huge stretchy dent in my once mint A trunk floorpan @*#$! I have a couple different lines on a '57 o/d trans but haven't picked one up yet....sometimes you find someone who knows these things inside and out here on the HAMB
     
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  4. Nailhead A-V8
    Joined: Jun 11, 2012
    Posts: 1,343

    Nailhead A-V8
    Member

    Are they both saginaw? the buick had some sort of sliding shifter with a reverse pattern and synchromesh
     

  5. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 6,695

    56sedandelivery
    Member Emeritus

    57 Chevrolet, manual 3-speed transmission is a Muncie 318 trans, the same trans with OD is referred to as a 319. I'm guessing the Buick trans was a Selector-Shift trans. It's a little difficult finding a floor shifter to work with the Muncie 319, but you can make a floor shifter work by raising it higher up, and modifying the levers/rods. Compare the trans/input shaft length against the old Buick, and then see if there's enough room on the mounting surface of the bellhousing to redrill to the Chevrolet pattern. The center hole can be dealt with either by turning the collar down to the Buick size, or making a ring to build it up (some rings are available from scattershield makers). At one time there were adapters made to do this swap, a 54 Buick up against a Chevrolet 3 speed. J.C. Whitney had them in their OLD catalogs (taken from a 1966 catalog). I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
     
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  6. Nailhead A-V8
    Joined: Jun 11, 2012
    Posts: 1,343

    Nailhead A-V8
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    Thanks Butch!
     
  7. Nailhead A-V8
    Joined: Jun 11, 2012
    Posts: 1,343

    Nailhead A-V8
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    F&J? anybody ever tried this?
     
  8. Gman0046
    Joined: Jul 24, 2005
    Posts: 6,256

    Gman0046
    Member

    Don't know who told you a Buick one armed bandit transmission has a reverse shift pattern but they told you wrong. I had a 55 Buick Special a 264 three speed on the column which had the standard H shift pattern. Replaced the 264 with a 56 322 and used all the stick shift parts from the 264. The 264 three speed does have gears that are fragile. I would think in a light car and careful driving it would work out OK. I did use an Ansen floor shifter on the Buick 3 speed. Doubt you could ever locate one in this day and age.

    Gary
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2017
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  9. chevyfordman
    Joined: Oct 4, 2008
    Posts: 1,354

    chevyfordman
    Member

    When I was in the Navy, I put a 364 Buick engine in my 57 Chevy with the 3 speed trans. I made some bell housing mounts for the engine just like the 283 engine was mounted. I bought a Buick stick shift flywheel and pressure plate and I used a Chevy clutch disc with the original Chevy 3 speed trans. I don't remember a lot about the swap except the car really ran fast and was prone to running hot but I didn't know very much in those days either.
     
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  10. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 6,916

    tubman
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    There ya' go. Somebody who has done it, so I guess it'll work. If you get far enough, "PM" me and I'll show you how I made a practical floorshift conversion for my '50 Buick with a Heim joint and some round stock using some miscellaneous pieces of steel.
     
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  11. belair
    Joined: Jul 10, 2006
    Posts: 9,013

    belair
    Member

    We need to see that.^^^
     
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  12. southcross2631
    Joined: Jan 20, 2013
    Posts: 4,413

    southcross2631
    Member

    Helped a friend put a 322 Buick in a 50 Ford back in the 60's . We used a Buick bellhousing and a 55 Chevy 3 speed . Cobbled together by 2 high school kids. Bought the motor mount kits from J.C. Whitney. Barry McGuire had the # 1 song on the radio that summer.
     
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  13. Nailhead A-V8
    Joined: Jun 11, 2012
    Posts: 1,343

    Nailhead A-V8
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    That's great thanks guys! I knew someone had done this in the past and would eventually show up on the HAMB....I can barely remember what I ate for lunch but it's funny how something I did on a car will come back to mind from 30 years ago....if chevyfordman can remember whether a stock buick or an aftermarket bellhousing was used in his '57 swap I think we're on the right track!
    southcross2631 It's interesting how generation after generation we always feel like were on the eve of destruction....hasn't happened yet so i'm gonna keep pluggin away at my Hot Rod and hopefully it gets finished before Trump hits the button! Lol
     
  14. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 6,916

    tubman
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    It was about 55 years ago when I had a '50 Special sedanette as a DD and the shifter on the column broke. Basically, I bolted a piece of angle iron across the back of the case using the inspection plate bolts. I welded a chunk of plate on the end of it, perpendicular to the angle. I drilled a 1/2" hole in that plate and bolted a 1/2" Heim to it. A piece of 1/2" round stock went through the heim and had a swivel deal on the bottom that hooked on to the main lever coming out of the case. Those old GM selector trannies worked by moving the main shift lever in and out to select first/reverse or second/third. I basically bypassed the stock selector lever and used the shift lever to move the main shaft in and out. It worked very well for me. I was always going to go to the junkyard and get a nice tapered lever and knob to top it off, but never got around to it.

    This was so long ago that I don't have any pictures or anything, so I hope you can visualize what I did. I think the secret is to just forget about the stock selector mechanism and use the shifter to move the main shift shaft in and out. I don't remember now if I actually did it or just intended to, but the linkage should be set up to be spring-loaded to the second/third position so on the first/second gear change it moves all the way over to catch second.

    Oh! BTW, the shift pattern ends up backwards, but that just means that in third, the shift lever is forward towards the dash which is nice, because it's out of the way. I didn't have any problem getting used to it. In fact, I feel the way it ended up was better
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2017
  15. belair
    Joined: Jul 10, 2006
    Posts: 9,013

    belair
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    Thanks, Tubman.
     
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  16. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 33,861

    Mr48chev
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    Buick V8 into a Chevy was a popular swap in the 60's. Having the stick bellhousing

    Here is the back side of a stock 53/56 264/322 Buick bellhousing.
    [​IMG]
    I nabbed that photo from this website. http://nailheadbuick.com/transadaptors It might be worth contacting them to ask what mods need to be made to the Buick bellhousing to bolt up the Chevy trans.


    55/57 Corvette Bellhousing (looks rather like a 55/57 truck bellhousing though.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2017
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  17. Nailhead A-V8
    Joined: Jun 11, 2012
    Posts: 1,343

    Nailhead A-V8
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    Thanks Tubman I was just about to PM ya!
     
  18. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 6,916

    tubman
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    Boy, I hope my memory is better about the shifter than it was about the transmission bolt patterns. Those look real close to me!
     
  19. Nailhead A-V8
    Joined: Jun 11, 2012
    Posts: 1,343

    Nailhead A-V8
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    Attached Files:

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  20. mtkawboy
    Joined: Feb 12, 2007
    Posts: 1,213

    mtkawboy
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    That's not a very strong transmission, I used to break them with a 283/220 motor
     
  21. Nailhead A-V8
    Joined: Jun 11, 2012
    Posts: 1,343

    Nailhead A-V8
    Member

    Thanks Mr48chev! that's perfect.....look at the difference in the center register ....oh and by the way how much to join your club? I thought I was the only member lol
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2017
  22. Nailhead A-V8
    Joined: Jun 11, 2012
    Posts: 1,343

    Nailhead A-V8
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    behind a stock 322 4 brl. and pushing a fenderless A shouldn't be a problem. A bonus is if I can make it work I'd have overdrive.... for gas mileage of course ;-)
     
  23. Nailhead A-V8
    Joined: Jun 11, 2012
    Posts: 1,343

    Nailhead A-V8
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  24. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 6,916

    tubman
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    Yep, the first picture shows the general idea. I think a heim would work better on the top, because the shift lever has to move up and down a bit between gears. I didn't use a smaller heim on the bottom because I didn't have one, but I think that would be an improvement as well
     
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  25. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 6,695

    56sedandelivery
    Member Emeritus

    Just a FYI; there is a NOS Foxcraft shifter for the Selector transmissions on that auction site we all know and love. Prepare thyself for sticker shock! That, and they look awful "flimsy" compared to other shifters. There were 2, but the vendor must have finally sold one of them; they've been listed for quite some time. Item number 371376179480 for those who might be interested. This vendor does seem to price items fairly high, but does have some odd, rare, unusual items. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
     
  26. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 6,916

    tubman
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    I just looked at the listing... OUCH!!

    You can get a 1/2" heim for less than five bucks!
     
  27. Nailhead A-V8
    Joined: Jun 11, 2012
    Posts: 1,343

    Nailhead A-V8
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    Ha ha ha not for me Butch Ansen, J.C. Whitney, belair's engine and tranny, etc. that stuff is all unobtanium to me....we're having a baby soon
     
  28. chevyfordman
    Joined: Oct 4, 2008
    Posts: 1,354

    chevyfordman
    Member

    Unfortunately I can't remember what I used for the bell housing. I remember buying the 33K miles Buick engine for $50 out of a junk yard and that it cost me like $400 to do the job. The Buick flywheel was $100 alone, a Chevy flywheel cost $27 which was a lot cheaper.
     
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  29. Let me know what you need in the way of measurements. My Buick bell and trans are on the bench. The smaller Buick centre register could be bored by any machinist to fit the Chev size, you just need to worry about the input shaft length and bolt pattern. I have a Cad/Lasalle side shift behind my Buick, using an aluminium adapter plate. Anything is doable.
     
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  30. Nailhead A-V8
    Joined: Jun 11, 2012
    Posts: 1,343

    Nailhead A-V8
    Member

    Thanks Duncan I spent the better part of an afternoon trying to wrassle the buick 3 spd out of the trailer the whole car is stored in pieces but only succeeded in creasing my model A trunk floor pan then before I gave up in frustration I leaked gear oil onto the buick clutch surface....grrr! to top it off I lost the ph. # AND address of my cheap source for the chev 3 o/d so as soon as I locate another i'll get those measurement and pm you
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2017

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