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Technical 32 Wishbone with a Model A axle

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by So Cal Brian B, Dec 31, 2018.

  1. banjorear
    Joined: Jul 30, 2004
    Posts: 3,744

    banjorear
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Have you mocked any of this up yet? Do you know what center cross member you are going to use? Is that the '32 cross (K) member you are referring to?

    I think you are going to find the '32 bones are about 2" too long for an A. '33/'34 bones fall into place with an A frame. '32 bones work on an AV8 using a '32 frame.
     
    So Cal Brian B likes this.
  2. continentaljohn
    Joined: Jul 24, 2002
    Posts: 4,144

    continentaljohn
    Member

    Fixed thanks
     
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  3. So Cal Brian B
    Joined: Apr 3, 2017
    Posts: 97

    So Cal Brian B

    Thank you all for the additional input. I made some additions to my original post to add some clarity. I am using an A frame with a shortened '32 K member.

    What led me me to the conclusion that I needed the '32 front wishbone was the fact that in the Tardel/Bishop book they state that a '33-'34 wishbone is needed as it is 47" in length. I measured what I believed to be a '32 wishbone and it is 47" in length so I made the poor assumption that I needed the '32 wishbone. How long are '33-'34 bones in length? I just reread the section in the book and now with all of your input it is making sense. They also stated that the '32 wishbone in the A frame would be about 2" too long.

    Looks like I need a '33-'34 front wishbone as banjo rear and the book states. Can anyone confirm the length of the '33-'34 wishbones?

    I may have purchased a '33-'34 wishbone that was sold to me as a '32.

    Thank you all for helping the newbie. I am gathering parts prior to starting so this has been a great learning experience so far.

    Brian
     
  4. Dirty Dug
    Joined: Jan 11, 2003
    Posts: 3,549

    Dirty Dug
    Member

    Find a '32 to '36 axle, problem solved.
     
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  5. adam401
    Joined: Dec 27, 2007
    Posts: 1,701

    adam401
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Ill try to measure my 34 today. 32 bones are longer than 33 34.
     
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  6. edwardlloyd
    Joined: Aug 2, 2003
    Posts: 2,035

    edwardlloyd
    Member
    from Germany

    The Tardel book is wrong. Regardless of whether you're using an A frame or a 32, if you're using a 1932 K-member to locate an unsplit wishbone, only the 32 one will work. Or you make one yourself as mentioned earlier.

    Sent from my SM-G935F using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  7. edwardlloyd
    Joined: Aug 2, 2003
    Posts: 2,035

    edwardlloyd
    Member
    from Germany

    Very few reproduction axles share the original 1932 perch distance. However recently the 1932 Ford axle is being reproduced in it's original in dropped form.

    Sent from my SM-G935F using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  8. redoxide
    Joined: Jul 7, 2002
    Posts: 404

    redoxide
    Member
    from Scotland

    Dont worry about incorrect parts selection Brian, thats how most of us end up with a large surplus parts stash :) comes in handy for resale or the next project..
     
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  9. banjorear
    Joined: Jul 30, 2004
    Posts: 3,744

    banjorear
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Are you sure about this? I'm using a '32 wishbone, '32 K in a '32 frame with my AV8. Originally, I had the car set up with an A frame. Using the '32 parts, put the engine too far back in my case and you had to address the firewall clearance.

    Those extra two inches less using a '33/'34 solved that problem.

    Regardless, you can make anything work, I just didn't want to mess with cutting the bottom of the firewall out. In the end it didn't matter in my situation.

    I'm not saying I'm right or your wrong, I'm just saying what worked for me.

    I'm also going to give you another tip I learned the hard way. Using '34 pedals (not '33's, but '34's they are 1" shorter than '33's) in a '32 pedal box clears the firewall as well.
     
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  10. banjorear
    Joined: Jul 30, 2004
    Posts: 3,744

    banjorear
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    So true.
     
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  11. bct
    Joined: Apr 4, 2005
    Posts: 2,983

    bct
    Member

  12. Wheeliedave
    Joined: Jan 6, 2011
    Posts: 176

    Wheeliedave

    If anyone has accurate drawings and photographs of each of the assembled axle and wishbone units with all appropriate measurements and could enter them in this thread, it would help a great deal in deciding what combination of parts any individual would want to use in their build. Thanks.


    Sent from my iPad using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  13. So Cal Brian B
    Joined: Apr 3, 2017
    Posts: 97

    So Cal Brian B

    Thank you all for the additional input and advice. Priceless!!

    That would solve the fitment issue between the axle and wishbone, but I would still have a wishbone that is 2" too long. Need the 33-34 wishbone.
    Now that's very true. I have proven that with all of my other hobbies over the years. British motorcycles and WWI & WWII firearms.
    banjorear has it nailed. Now this all making sense. Would be easier to understand if I had actually done this before or had the parts mocked up. I am so concerned with having almost all the parts and the subgroup mods done prior to starting.
    Thank you Adam401. Looks like the 33-34 are two inches shorter than the '32 according to the link bct added.
    Excellent link bct. Thank you for the reference information. Looks like the 33-34 are 2' shorter than the 32 wishbones.


    Thanks again to everyone. The puzzle is coming together.

    Brian
     
  14. banjorear
    Joined: Jul 30, 2004
    Posts: 3,744

    banjorear
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Hey Brian:

    We're here to help. My AV8 project started and stopped over the course of 15 years. I learned a lot and made some costly mistakes. I hope to finally get the car on the road this spring.

    Another option is to use a F-1 truck center cross member and pedal set-up. Since you'll need to fab up a mount for the wishbone ball, a '32 bone will work. F-1 also is set up to use juice brakes and the master cylinder mounts directly behind the pedal set-up.

    This option is gaining some traction with AV8 builders using A frames.
     
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  15. V8RPU
    Joined: Sep 23, 2010
    Posts: 200

    V8RPU
    Member
    from Nor Cal

    Here is my experience. My setup is with a 32 B banger and transmission in an A frame. I know that is not your setup, but the length and mounting specs. are the same as a 32 V8. You want to use the 32 K member and 32 bones. Like many have suggested use a 32 or 36 axle. You can sell the A axle for about the same $ as it will cost to buy the correct one. By using the 32 K member you can use a 32 transmission mount on your case. The Tardel book is wrong on using the 34 bones in this situation. The dimensions for cutting the K member should be used as a guideline, in my case some of them are not correct. You will have to do a lot of trial fitting. With the K member you can use a 32 pedal assembly if you can find one. I used the assembled wishbone, spring and axle to locate the k member relative to the wishbone ball. I checked this position with the mocked up trans. and engine with the 32 trans mount. You can then confirm that all is well with clearances. Once the K member is welded or bolted in I got rid of the center A crossmember to give more access for brake lines etc. plus it looks better.
     
  16. redoxide
    Joined: Jul 7, 2002
    Posts: 404

    redoxide
    Member
    from Scotland

    I opted for the F1 X member and pedal assembly since the 32 was to costly and relatively rare, Could have used tube but wanted to maintain an old school look to the whole thing.

    F1 so far looks like it will work out pretty decent but it does require a little narrowing, a smidge of reprofileing and a shift of the master cylinder hole by a couple of inches.. but it does look like it might have been a period option.. ;)

    P.S my frame is boxed because its actually the remains of 3 frames spliced together, the frame I had was rotten at the front, but I had bought a stationary engine that just happened to be bolted to the front section of a model A frame, so those were liberated, I also went with a 40 rear axle and spring behind axle set up, therfore I needed to stretch the rear of the frame 7 1/2 inches.. As luck would have it I had a model A rear X member that was still attached to 12inches of rear frame, so managed to make use of those bits as well .. The spliced areas were supported with fish plates and the frame boxed just for added peace of mind ..
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
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  17. banjorear
    Joined: Jul 30, 2004
    Posts: 3,744

    banjorear
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Another trick for lowering the rear of an A is to use a '26/'27 T rear crossmember. It looks like a Model A crossmember, but it is approximately 1.5" lower than the A. Use a T spring and gain another 2" of lowering. It just makes the rear of an A look better than stock height. Reverse or bend the end of the main and gain even more.
     
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  18. So Cal Brian B
    Joined: Apr 3, 2017
    Posts: 97

    So Cal Brian B

    Here is the setup that I am running as far as the drivetrain is concerned. I'll be swapping out the stock intake and heads for new Navarro ones. Will run dual Strombergs.

    upload_2019-1-4_12-9-3.jpeg
     

    Attached Files:

  19. Aaron D.
    Joined: Oct 27, 2015
    Posts: 566

    Aaron D.
    Member

    I think Edwardloyd is right. The book is wrong, and somewhere on the HAMB Bishop corrects the mistake. I believe the 32 wishbone is the one you want to use.
     
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  20. Aaron D.
    Joined: Oct 27, 2015
    Posts: 566

    Aaron D.
    Member

  21. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 3,633

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    Anyone know how I can get the pictures to display on the jalopyjournal thread linked here? When the thread first opens the images are visible, then they disappear. I know they're there, but I can't get to them.
     
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  22. So Cal Brian B
    Joined: Apr 3, 2017
    Posts: 97

    So Cal Brian B

    Thank you Aaron for the information and for the link to Mike's article. Mike never comes out and states that the '32 is the right one but is pretty clear that the 33-34 is too short so I guess I've come full circle back to the '32 that I have is the right one.

    Thanks,

    Brian
     
  23. So Cal Brian B
    Joined: Apr 3, 2017
    Posts: 97

    So Cal Brian B

    That was my original plan. Looks like I am back to either milling down the A axle or getting a later axle and proceeding as per my original plan. Thanks for your input. I am going back and reading all the posts again. I guess I'll find out how all this is going to work once I start on this project.

    I have a '32 pedal setup converted to work with the '39 transmission so I am hoping that will work out as well.

    Brian
     
  24. banjorear
    Joined: Jul 30, 2004
    Posts: 3,744

    banjorear
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I would start by first mociking everything up. I mean everything. Fan, radiator, intake, carbs, etc so you know exactly where the motor is going to sit.

    Once that is established, place your crossmembers. I wouldn’t disagree with Mike Bishop, but I telling everyone here that a ‘33/‘34 wishbone worked for my set up when it was on an A frame.

    Your experience may vary, but do not weld home anything until you mock it up.
     
  25. continentaljohn
    Joined: Jul 24, 2002
    Posts: 4,144

    continentaljohn
    Member

    As Banjorear said mock up everything including the steering and exhaust as well . The body should be on or the cowl at least.
    I think Mike Bishops book is fantastic and should be in everybody’s garage . The book helps a ton when building your rod but use it as a guide . As you are experiencing parts very and heck lets face it lots of parts look the same . It’s easy to misidentifying some parts and Mock-up will help “oh sh*t” moments..
    I wish when i built my first hotrod , a great tool as the HAMB was around with so many knowledgeable guys willing to help .
     
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  26. 4ever18
    Joined: Nov 1, 2007
    Posts: 465

    4ever18
    Member

    88CEEBA5-E301-4BDF-B53A-4FFF26347D42.jpeg 5A161ECD-9EF7-4A5E-97B4-D17A45E93920.jpeg 2FFBE035-9BC7-44EF-8D6E-CC81E01C36B3.jpeg 171D855B-1A89-4EC8-AABF-C944FB8B021D.jpeg 7BA17352-265A-4F5A-B3F8-848875835335.png This is a timely & interesting thread for me. Some of you will recall my garage find, mint condition, ‘33 Ford 3 window coupe. I’ve installed new tires & wheels on the coupe and am now ready to address the altitude of the nose. In my stash of stuff, I have a new, chrome, 5” dropped tube axle. The problem is that the axle is designed for a 2.25” batwing/wishbone boss, while my original wishbone accepts only an axle measuring 2” at the mounting point. I’m considering heating & stretching the wishbone opening to 2.25”. Since we readily heat and reshape spindle steering arms, why wouldn’t heating and stretching this wishbone opening work for me & and the original poster?
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2019
  27. So Cal Brian B
    Joined: Apr 3, 2017
    Posts: 97

    So Cal Brian B

    Thank you all. For now I am going to stick with the '32 wishbone when I get ready to mock everything up and see where everything lands. I will report back with progress. It will be a while as I am still gathering parts and working on subassembly.

    Thanks,

    Brian
     
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  28. continentaljohn
    Joined: Jul 24, 2002
    Posts: 4,144

    continentaljohn
    Member

    image.jpg image.jpg Amazing 3w coupe and you can heat and move the with one to fit 2.250 axle but doesn’t come out great unless you stretch the top mount as well as moving it up. I have this beautiful set of chrome 1932 bones that someone in the past did it. As you can see in the pictures the top is at a slight angle. You can see they tried to pull or stretch it as well but no luck . I would send your axle to okie Joes or Greg at Ansen axles to get dropped. I believe they also have axles in stock to trade out or Joe does. Greg is a awesome guy but a one man show so it takes a bit of time.
     
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  29. 4ever18
    Joined: Nov 1, 2007
    Posts: 465

    4ever18
    Member

    Thank you for the photo. My fixture that I’ve designed will allow me to stretch the opening, while maintaining correct alignment of the upper & lower legs of the wishbone.
     
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  30. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 13,962

    alchemy
    Member

    Hey 18, you will also have to pay attention to the distance between the perch holes on the tube axle. It is probably narrower than the stock axle, so the stock wishbone and spring can't be used as is.
     

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