The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Hamtown Al, Apr 22, 2018.
Thanks Phil for the help. Hope you are doing well and staying warm!!
The serial number of the 4 banger was exactly where winduptoy said it would be.
Looks like 15005562 to me. Charlie will likely tell us if it is an early 4 banger like he suspected.
BTW, there is absolutely no going back as I already succumbed to a pal that just had to buy the "whole enchilada." Apparently he didn't trust me to make sure this special combination from so long ago found a good home. I know it will be quite safe with him and, best of all, it will get used!
Looks like AB 5005562 to me, Al. Can't say for sure as I've just been studying the picture for a moment or two........Don.
That is a VERY early car.
My sedan is in the 50,000's, and I consider it an early car too. But yours is really very early.
I have another chassis with a 5,000 number in the V8 series, which is pretty early for a V8, but those were built after the fours were well underway.
Dang! I can't get nuthin' past you guys!! Thanks, Don. I agree it does look more like a B after you look at it... it looked mostly like an I to me so I ASSUMED it was "1." That dang "assuming" will do it every time! winduptoy says early BB block.
Thanks to all for the continued interest and help.
Looks like it might be January, 1932
WOW! Never underestimate the knowledge within the HAMB! I'm sorry I can't contribute to raising the average knowledge.
Based on my entirely questionable calculations; the engine was likely produced on Jan 11, 1932; my mother's fifth birthday! How 'bout that?!
Thanks again for the continued interest and help... now, any of you boys good at lifting a Buick?
Now fellows; that is a battery box. I mean a serious all metal all welded up battery box. It was wedged into the floor and then tack welded. It was a job but I finally got it out. At one point I was banging the heck out of the bottom trying to knock it up some with a 2.5 pound hammer... and I wasn't even denting the box!
I don't know that the wiring will ever work again but that genuine 1932 wiring is going away.
I think you nailed the production date of the engine. I assume this same number appears on the top of the left frame rail near the steering, the number on the frame is the one the DMV will probably want to use. Does the number on the frame match the title? The number, less the prefix will also be in two places on the top of the left frame rail under the body where the body will need to be lifted to see them.
In most cases in the automotive industry the engines only slightly preceded the vehicle’s build but there was something unique about the Model B. Ford had decided to delay the release of the Model B until the Model “18” (the V8) had been released. There is a famous photo of Henry Ford stamping the serial number into the transmission of the first V8 on March 10, 1932. The Model B engines were stored until the Model 18 was released. After the V8 was released the supply of engines was installed in vehicles not in any particular order. Thus the date that the vehicle was assembled cannot be determined accurately. It definitely is early.
Another bit of trivia. If the engine is the one that originally came with the car it should have a rectangular boss just forward of the dipstick. This boss was intended to be used to install a vacuum operated clutch The vacuum operated clutch was never released for production and this boss was eliminated on later engines.
The 32 serial number was stamped on the removable bellhousing, so that might not even be the original engine to go with that bellhousing, let alone the matching car. Check the frame usually right inside of the firewall leg, left side of the car. Many can be seen without removing the fenders on a 32.
Here is the frame number on my 'AVATAR. Peeking out between the foot of the firewall, the fender and the body webbing.
Charlie, it looks like it is the early engine as it has that feature you shared.
I’m hoping there’s a picture above as first I’ve posted from my phone.
Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
An update below:
When I removed the clutch cylinder etc from inside the firewall, I discovered that part of the bracing for the steering column was bolted to the back side of the clutch cylinder cast bracket. Once removed, I had to come up with spacing to account for the 3/4" I had removed between the inside of the firewall and the brace.
A time capsule for sure. I'm not that fond of the remaining hardware on the firewall for the four wheel disc brakes but I think I'll leave as it to preserve a neat part of the car's history and evolution. That crossmember that holds the back of the wishbone has certainly seen a few updates. After (if?!!) I get the new engine and trans combo in the car we'll beef that crossmember up in one manner or another to make it much stronger. I think we're gonna have to tweak that area some more but I think I at least have a chance at getting it all to fit.
PS: The dash and inside ain't looking the same either!
Had a heck of a time getting that original instrument panel out. Should have been easy but I try to go slow and cautious when opening a time capsule.
It is up against steering shaft but would go below it if just lowered rear of transmission... I think!
I knew I should have removed that flange!! Barely misses clearing. Think if could lower rear and get driver side to clear steering a bit, could move pass side over enough to drop below frame and would be good... I hope!
Anyway, still much to do but much was learned from this initial test fit. There is still room before we get to the distributor as shown below:
Inside only removed a bit on passenger side so far but, while I was being careful not to cut the trans filler tube; I completely forgot that there was a metal vacuum line going down to the transmission!
Looks like I created a new minor opportunity to fix that now.
I'm sure somebody spotted the wooden block motor mounts under the front of the engine.
They are temporary I hope!!
The tiki guy on the right looks contented enough.
Man, that big lump looks good sliding in there...hot dam!
I've had the engine out and back in several times. Out at the moment while we work on the chassis and firewall.
I removed most of the old engine mount on the driver's side.
Sliced the firewall in preparation for setting the distributor back about 2 inches.
I'm going to see my main serious fabricator tomorrow to get the material for reinforcing the mostly gone K member. I had my chief serious welder over to help me complete the engineering and planning for the K member. We also spent some time reviewing that well used chassis. We'll be updating the chassis to gain the added strength that will be needed for the torque of the big Buick... don't want this hot rod with a history dating back to May 5, 1942 to have its chassis turn into a pretzel on my watch. Finished removing old wiring and also removed all the old switches.
Serious fabricator came through with a call early today. I fitted the new crossmember reinforcement piece and calculated the additional pieces needed to reinforce the crossmember before removing the material blocking the installation. You can tell from the pictures that this car has had a number of changes over the years and most of it ain't real pretty. It was done in the days when you needed the car back on the road shortly!
Several of my pals want me to either split the genie 32 wishbone or switch to a 4 bar front suspension. I told them this car has a long hot rod legacy and I ain't switching to 1-800-hotrod!
I priced a new chassis but felt that would kill the guts of the history.
You can see that the driver's side has been worked on before. I'm not sure if the addition was for strength or to mount something else. At any rate, it is going to have to go.
The passenger side should be much cleaner. The plan is to make up 90 degree angled pieces that will be welded to the existing crossmember and the brace across the back. When that is complete, we'll open up the area and then weld it from the inside. It is going to have to be substantial to keep that pivot point steady.
The fabricator is working on the needed pieces. The new brace has 3/4 inch overlap with the inside of the chassis. The passenger side slot was longer to allow getting it into position to slide back toward the driver's side to install it.
I've hooked up the new shifter to the transmission and have adjusted it to work properly ratcheting up and down if desired. I don't think I've ever worked this for ahead before. Now I plan to only unhook the cable at the shifter when I install it. I hope!
3/16 material was thinner than preferred but we'll beef it up to get the job done. Sometimes you got to work with what you have... or wait a while and hot rodder's aren't too good at that.
Here's the main component of the cross member upgrade with a piece of angle iron added to considerably strengthen it and keep it straight.
The above got revised to look like:
And the support piece was trimmed to fit like this:
The same was done for the other side. Hopefully y'all can see the plan. We hope to start on welding it all together tomorrow night. Once completed, the portion of the old crossmember above the fabricated piece above my hand will be removed and further welded on the inside for added strength.
We have already secured the driver side piece as the C clamp is removed. The passenger side is still clamped and waiting its turn.
Here we have completed fully attaching the strengthening additions to the old crossmember.
View from the back. Now ready to remove no longer needed portions of the original crossmember.
Old portions removed and driver side trimmed. You can see that the passenger side needs further trimming for more clearance.
Passenger side has been trimmed and ready for another trial fit.
If this has reasonable clearance, we can move on to working on determining the changes needed to the firewall to recess the distributor a couple inches and begin figuring out just where the front engine mount crossmember will be located. Along with that we will also begin figuring out what will be needed for the rear transmission mount.
BTW, more welding is planned to further strengthen the crossmember but we're postponing that until we have the engine and transmission crossmembers figured out and probably in place.
Thanks for the continued interest and encouragement.
Title updated since we are adding to the history. I don't know how many different engines have been in this car but folks claiming to be familiar with the car said it had no telling how many flatheads, an early Ford OHV engine, a Chevy 283, a Ford 289, and the 1932 four banger that was in it when I got it. I suspect the new 425 Buick we're installing will be the biggest so far. Two fours might well be the most carburetion, too.
The good news is we managed to get the engine and transmission combo back in for a test fit.
The bad news is that we needed an additional tweak to clear the shift modulator on the side of the transmission.
Ironically, I was checking everything twice yesterday before we began welding it all together and realized that might be a problem. After the trial fit, I knew it was!
As you can tell, I have tweaked it to fit, I hope! We will likely add some strength to several places after it is in its final location. No point in reinforcing what might have to be changed.
The fit is tight! Figured from the start might have to go to smaller high performance starter and probably will for added clearance. I just want to see what I have before I start "assuming!"
Stay tuned. We're getting closer to being able to do further engine and transmission crossmember location determination.
Current calculations leave three eights between back of head and firewall; one and quarter inch between leading edge of fan and radiator fins. Definitely will need a mini-starter.
The best news is that it WILL fit.
Of course, with most hot rodders, it always will fit! One way or another!
I might have missed it, but did you check fan to radiator clearance with banger radiator or new Buick cooling, thick core type? Might make a difference, and let you move the lump forward just a little.
Radiator? The one that is in it has four outlets... surely enough to cool the "lump."
Just kidding of course. Really haven't gotten to the radiator yet. I'm backing it as far toward the firewall as possible. I figure it is better to have as much space in front of the fan as possible. I originally thought I would have to run an electric fan but we've managed to dodge that bullet... so far!
Thanks for bringing it up... I need all the help I can get!
Found and ordered the correct mini-starter from Jegs for $215 delivered... hopefully pretty soon!
Beginning work on where to locate front engine mount crossmember. Looks like the mount on the driver's side is further back that on passenger side. Guess that engine crossmember that locates the engine mounts will be at a slight angle. Also might need to tweak the mounts to raise the engine just a little to keep clearances within desired bounds. More work needs to be done but now can at least start looking at making a crossmember to mount the transmission. I'm doing my best to get the engine very close to the firewall.
Learning as we go... as usual.
Engine crossmember mocked up to some degree but want to install small starter and truly center engine before welding it up but I've got it close. I measured and remeasured and then measured again and checked the crossmember as received and kept checking measurements until finally dialed in on just how much and where to cut. Time consuming but probably the quickest in the long run!
It might just work!
I'd sure test fit your radiator before welding any mounts. A new radiator is going to be a little different thickness and outlet location than an old one. A couple years ago my brother was building mounts for a SBC in a 32 and we had trouble getting clearance between the fan and the lower hose outlet on the radiator. He had to move the engine up a bit more than he originally thought.
Took my radiator to my radiator guy and he said that radiator had a lot of cooling power with 4 rows. The bad news was that with that original top tank there was not enough flat surface to attach a neck on the inside to pressurize the system. We carefully measured all aspects of the radiator and with that info I ordered a new radiator that should be here Monday as I got a notice that it did ship late today. No word yet on the starter shipping.
Also took first look at transmission mount and the bottom of transmission mount is only very slightly below the bottom of the frame rails. Of course, with the front not dialed in for sure; doing anything on a transmission crossmember might be wasted effort.
Stay tuned. It is slow but I think we are still going forward. Now doing best to verify that the engine crossmember is in the right spot. Also started figuring out strategy for locating new gauges in original 1940 dash panel if possible.
I know there are plenty of gauge sets available and a number of them have gauge panels that will bolt right into my 1940 Ford dash panel hole. I thought it would be more in keeping with the history of the car to once again modify the original 1940 dash panel to use different gauges. I have no idea of when the previous builder installed the gauges that look to be from late 1940s Fords. I was surprised to find that I could fit all four of the gauges I had added to the car and were the gauges I was using into the 1940 original panel frame. There was a lot of grinding, cutting, and hand filing but I managed to get them mounted. What I did NOT manage to do was fix the odometer of the 1940 ford speedometer. It is all clean and looks pretty but the odometer does not work properly. The good news is that I believe the trip odometer which I have been relying on previously continues to work properly. Anybody got a spare 1940 Deluxe speedometer laying around?
Here are the pictures for Larry:
Straight on the gauges are quite readable but at an angle the look more distorted.
I hoping the manual temperature gauge sensor reaches all the way to the front of the big Buick.
The starter arrived late last week but the radiator is due today and I'm anxious to actually see it mounted to verify my clearance calculations.
Thanks for your interest and encouragement,
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