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Projects 31 Model A 302 heads

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Powered by Ford, Nov 25, 2021.

  1. Powered by Ford
    Joined: Oct 18, 2021
    Posts: 31

    Powered by Ford

    Thanks for the info. I think 300hp is adequate for what I'm looking for. No need to spend beyond that for this cruiser.
     
    loudbang and oldiron 440 like this.
  2. Powered by Ford
    Joined: Oct 18, 2021
    Posts: 31

    Powered by Ford

    Thanks Mike, yes not optimum combination, I agree. As I mentioned I would like to keep the 8" rear end, mainly because having to find and change it out. Do know if there are other gears available for this rear end? Thinking 350ish maybe a good fit if possible. I think it would be much easier to swap gears vs the rear end. Also, could this rear end handle 350ish gears?
     
  3. Flathead Freddie
    Joined: May 9, 2021
    Posts: 292

    Flathead Freddie
    Member

    My friend called Goes Racing and told them what he expected and they took his order and delivered what he wanted same as any race shop only certified by Ford . So what my friend has is a 351 built to 460 he still has to assemble the accessories so engine came from pan to heads per his specs and what real Ford Engineers recommend . Wanna ask me the HP ? 3 times stock
    .
     
    loudbang likes this.
  4. Powered by Ford
    Joined: Oct 18, 2021
    Posts: 31

    Powered by Ford

    Yes, I have noticed the long lead times/availability on the trick flow heads. Still considering the gt40 heads as an option for sure. Good to know your thoughts on the mild cam, I didn't want a radical one anyway. I didn't realize how it affected the low end power. I will definitely benefit from that knowledge.
     
  5. Beanscoot
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 2,356

    Beanscoot
    Member

    Regarding ratios close to 3.50, 8" gear sets are available in 3.40 and 3.55 ratios.

    Ford Duraspark is an excellent ignition system, I don't see how MSD would be an upgrade. Maybe for looks?

    I agree with the suggestion of an Explorer long block. The best 302 Ford (excluding the Boss) ever made, with a very good roller cam and excellent heads.
     
  6. Powered by Ford
    Joined: Oct 18, 2021
    Posts: 31

    Powered by Ford

    Thanks, the avatar pic is this car from 1989 when my dad and I pulled it from my grandfathers barn. He bought it in 54 from a junk yard for $50. We found the receipt he had for it. Its been in the family for a while. :)
     
    hotrodtodd1960, loudbang and 2Blue2 like this.
  7. sdluck
    Joined: Sep 19, 2006
    Posts: 2,883

    sdluck
    Member

    Isn't there a fit problems with headers and sparkplug wires on gt 40 p heads?
     
    deathrowdave likes this.
  8. Powered by Ford
    Joined: Oct 18, 2021
    Posts: 31

    Powered by Ford

    Mainly around town cruiser, however last year I was fearful of longer cruises to car shows over 20 miles. Hoping this rebuild will allow those fears to subside and those distant shows to become more comfortable to go to. There are other things I need to fix to make that happen other than the engine build. I like "That's all I got for 302 advice" I appreciate it!
     
    indyjps likes this.
  9. Powered by Ford
    Joined: Oct 18, 2021
    Posts: 31

    Powered by Ford

     
  10. Powered by Ford
    Joined: Oct 18, 2021
    Posts: 31

    Powered by Ford

    I agree, no chinese junk! I looked a little for gt40 heads since the reply's on here. If I got used ones from a junk yard, I think I would be gambling on their condition and what work would need to be done as you mentioned. I also looked at new gt40 heads online. I've also searched for the World Product heads. Seen them on Summit, looks like they could ship next month possibly. I have to do more research on these to see if they would be a good fit. Thanks for the recommendation on these.
     
  11. CC-Mo
    Joined: Oct 13, 2019
    Posts: 56

    CC-Mo

    Nice to not see a SBC in the coupe.
     
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  12. Powered by Ford
    Joined: Oct 18, 2021
    Posts: 31

    Powered by Ford

    Thanks for your reply. Love to hear about someone that has these and is happy with them. Good to know what your combination is that works well for you.
     
  13. Powered by Ford
    Joined: Oct 18, 2021
    Posts: 31

    Powered by Ford

    So the roller cam blocks are found in explorers and mountaineers? What years? Along with the gt40p heads? Can a 79 block be machined to host a roller cam? or not enough metal there? I was considering the gt40 heads and not the P since my headers would work as I understand it. The P's have the sparkplug on an angle that would interfere with the headers.
     
  14. Any SBF block can be set up for roller lifters with an aftermarket kit. No major machining needed either, just a couple of holes drilled in the lifter valley.
     
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  15. Beanscoot
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 2,356

    Beanscoot
    Member

    Yeah, the plugs are at a different angle to the earlier heads, there's reports of some headers fitting fine, some not. I believe the shorty spark plugs (Accel?) and / or angle plug boots will help here.
     
  16. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 21,957

    Deuces
    Member
    from Michigan

    Yeah, I used a pair of twisted wedge heads on roller block that worked like a charm...
     
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  17. Although Crazy Steve can offer better, SBF heads went through several changes over the years, and there were many variations. Most castings prior to 1974 would be what I considered early.
     
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  18. birdman1
    Joined: Dec 6, 2012
    Posts: 1,370

    birdman1
    Member

    The engine I built for my 1966 mustang fastback is a 1975 302. I installed 351 Cleveland heads,( aluminum speed master) boss 302 intake, stock 361 Cleveland Pistons (yes they work), stock 302 crank and rods, and boss302 cam. I used a t5 transmission and 4.11 rear end with a locker.
     
  19. Flathead Freddie
    Joined: May 9, 2021
    Posts: 292

    Flathead Freddie
    Member

    You have a real smart build and you don't say it but I bet your happy with it and I bet it's a reliable build . A Boss 302 water pump is good for an extra 10HP
     
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  20. CyaNide
    Joined: Mar 2, 2006
    Posts: 252

    CyaNide
    Member
    from Texas

    I have regular length plugs in mine and am running shorty mustang headers I got from Summit and there is no issue with fitment. Just have to check the pipe at the mounting flange.

    CN
     
    loudbang likes this.
  21. @Powered by Ford, for what you're after the GT40 heads represent the best bang-for-your-buck. Those are pretty much a bolt-on, if you stick with a flat tappet hydraulic cam I believe you can re-use all of your existing valve train. Talk to your cam/valve spring supplier about whether you need to upgrade the rockers to roller trunnions as the OEM pedestal rockers tend to run hot with higher spring pressures.

    Early heads don't really have that much to offer. Windsor heads were always the sticking point in terms of performance. In terms of port size/flow there isn't that much difference between the various 289/302 heads, it was chamber/valve sizes that had the most effect. The '64-66.5 heads had machined slots for the pushrods (no guide plates needed) and were adjustable so they were popular with the solid-lifter/race crowd. A good rebuildable set won't be easy to find these days. The 271 HiPo heads had upgraded valve train as the primary difference.

    Mid-'66 brought the rail rocker and non-adjustability, now machining was needed for performance use. One bright spot was the C9/D0 351W heads, finally a head with bigger ports was available. These were the 'go to' choice for years. Still a pretty good head, but finding a rebuildable set and the money needed to bring them up to snuff can be as much or more than a set of GT40/aftermarket heads. But in '70 the Cleveland appeared and became the darling of the race crowd; the Windsor was sent back to the 'economy' corral where it languished until the 5.0 Mustang appeared. In '77 Ford switched to the pedestal rockers and kept those until the end of production.

    The popularity of the 5.0 is what sparked the aftermarket into finally seriously offering Ford parts. Trick Flow came out with the Twisted Wedge for the 5.0 and sold a zillion of 'em, pretty soon just about everyone had heads. The head choices today weren't even dreamed of 'back in the day'. Lots of great choices, but most can be overkill if you're not chasing big HP numbers.
     
  22. Mimilan
    Joined: Jun 13, 2019
    Posts: 1,106

    Mimilan
    Member

    Get the whole 5.0 explorer engine instead of rebuilding your old 302.
    These come with GT40P heads and a Roller Cam.
    Then just swap oil pan , front timing cover ,intake,waterpump, pulleys, and distributor etc [keep the distributor gear that matches the roller cam]
    Put a decent grind cam in it,with new valve springs [re-use the old lifters etc]

    Roller cam 5.0 Fords can do huge mileage [we've pulled down 160k "U-pull" specials that still have the cross-hatch marks in the bores]
    Usually all they need is a ring'n'bearing job [if that]

    If you want to "chirp" the tyres :D occasionally ,just add a nitrous kit [but the rest of the time it will be dead reliable and very drivable]

    Doing this could have the car running in a weekend [instead of having the engine do a life sentence in machine shop hell]
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2021
  23. 6sally6
    Joined: Feb 16, 2014
    Posts: 1,894

    6sally6
    Member

    For non-"hi-performance"/street strip HP like you are looking for( 300-ishHP.)......
    forget about the 2.02 intake valved heads......carb over 600CFM.......duration over 220* @ 050!
    Keep in mind the Hi-PO 289 made 271 HP and is one of FoMoCo's crown jewel performers.
    Pretty sure a 31 Ford is even lighter than a 65/66 (M-word) the hipo came in so you are already ahead of the game as far as "peppy" street performance is concerned.
    A roller cammed 5.0 engine (started in 1985) gets you the basics for great street engine. (Sell the 302 to a collector/builder and more than pay for a junk yard 5.0 core with coin left over)
    Think about a 351 and you're already at your 300HP goal! Jus say'in!
    Get 5.0 bored 30 over and replace pistons with flat-top design....use the thinner more modern rings for less friction losses. Have the block zero decked and mill the stock heads to achieve 9.5:1 CR
    Have the pistons rotated on the rods to get a better angle on the crank pin (free HP!)
    Have stock rods resized and use ARP rod bolts.
    Camshaft with no more than 220* duration...LSA of 110* .... Lift .470-ish.
    (For a nice "lick" in the idle...reduce the LSA and increase the exhaust duration 5 degrees)
    Grind down the "hump" in the exhaust ports...maybe gasket match the ports and replace the springs with new ones.
    IF you're worried about losing some low end torque (you shouldn't!) advance the camshaft timing 5*. This will move your power curve lower into an RPM range you will be using.
    This will get you to the 300+HP goal easily and your wife/'main squeeze' can drive it to mid-week choir practice no problem.
    6sally6
     
  24. birdman1
    Joined: Dec 6, 2012
    Posts: 1,370

    birdman1
    Member

    My little brother had a 69 boss 302. I just had to have one of my own, so I built it
     
  25. deathrowdave
    Joined: May 27, 2014
    Posts: 2,830

    deathrowdave
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from NKy

    GT 40 or GT 40 P with the “ bumps” cleaned out of the exhaust ports , are about as good as you will ever need on a street driven car . I have a later model roller 302 , X grind cam and springs , roller rocker arms and Police Heads , they are slightly different . Not as good as a GT40 . Removing the bump is your best friend on a OEM head .
     
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  26. deathrowdave
    Joined: May 27, 2014
    Posts: 2,830

    deathrowdave
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from NKy

    Dura Spark recurved to your needs with GM module is about as good as you will need for ignition in a street driven car also .
     
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  27. 6sally6
    Joined: Feb 16, 2014
    Posts: 1,894

    6sally6
    Member

    A set of light springs to bring on that total timing.........is about the BEST thing you can do for a SBF. REALLY
    makes 'em come alive!
    6sally6
     
  28. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 40,113

    loudbang
    Member

    @Powered by Ford you are in luck. All this guy does is put engines together and dyno test them and he likes fords. This video will answer all your questions on CHEAP 302 Ford power. :)

     
    uncleandy 65 likes this.

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