Hot Rods 308 Hudson 6 for Early RODS ???

If you get a chance try and get hold of Smokey's "Best Damn Garage In Town", in it he has a section on the Fabulous Hudson Hornet and covers his dealings with Hudson/Teague and Herb Thomas. He was Crew chief for Thomas when he won his championships in 51 & 53 and built the engines for Teague and Thomas for $200 a shot. I have loaned the book to a friend so can only tell you what I remember reading. Apparently Teague was supposed to have driven in a non sanctioned event which he denied, Smokey said France said didn't matter he was out, was like he never existed after that in the Nascar records. Teague went on to win races and championships in other series, Smokey said he always wanted to get back into Nascar and that France had suggested that if he could set the speed record he would reconsider his decision on the ban. This is only a small part of a great book and a great life story, get one, you won't be able to put it down.

 

thought you guys might like to se these....

 

StudHud and Rocket88NZ

GREAT STUFF!

We talk alot about Hornets, but my favorite stepdowns are the Super Wasps. I have a Super Wasp coupe, and much prefer its handling over the Super Six.

I keep looking at StudHud's engine, what a beautiful piece. What are those carbs?

Hud

 

Dang, I don't want to hijack this thread either regarding 8's. But, I have to say this.

I've never looked at a more visually appealing flathead than the Hudson 8. If you really look at that engine, move your hand over its surfaces - You soon realize how much craftmanship and artistry went into the patterns for that engine. The Big Six we are discussing here looks like an industrial chunk of iron compared to the 8.

The Hudson 8 was the first performance breakthrough for Hudson in '33. It was the fastest car of its time and is responsible for the early speed and endurance records Hudson held. It was the engine of the English Brough Superior and Railton vehicles, which tells us of its international reputation for performance in its own era. While its oiling is its downfall, no doubt its former reputation as the performance engine of a generation earlier kept it in demand until it disappeared from Hudson's lineup.

I want to build one with some modernization at some point in my life. Ivan Zaremba has a Railton 8 racer in addition to the Hornet pictured in this thread. Maybe somebody can scare up a picture of that car as well. I have no idea what modifications he's made to it or much about it period.

Hud

 

They are "backdraft" carbs off an olds. The main body is almost Identical to the hudson WGD carb. I wish I had sidedraft webers though been looking fo a year now with no luck.HINT HINT! Shoulda bought a wber intake from clifford before Jack past away. I liked clifford before now not so much.

 

Oh yeah, in the Terraplane. The Terraplane 8 was John Dillenger's preferred car. I was really disappointed in the recent movie as they were all V8 Fords. While I like Johnny Depp, I like Terraplanes more. There was only a passing shot of one but you neve saw Dillenger(Depp) driving one in the movie.

Scrape, I love your photos of the dirt tracker. What time were those taken? Mid-60's? I would love to have heard those zoomies bark.

Hud

 

Larry still makes them. I asked about them not long ago. Clifford still has some stuff that's not on the website/catalog.

This was the reply:
[email protected]
Tuesday, August 11, 2009 5:17 PM

(other content omitted)

Yes, I will make the Hudson triple intake as long as I have POP'S 6=8 company.

Thank you for continuing Clifford History.

Larry 6=8



StudHud, you seem to know there is such a triple weber outift in our stash already- with carbs. Hint Hint? What, you wanna buy them or swap for them? I'd sure like to have an Edmunds and/or Clifford head and etc.


They do look formidable, huh?

 

I actually dig the fact that we completely hijacked this thread! I have talked to jack's kid several times First it was "6 month's I'll have them" then it was "6 month's I'll have them" then it was "6 month's I'll have them" and this last year it was I would have to have 10 sold to do a run. I wish the guy would just sell me the patterns so I could get them done. I dont have an extra head but am interested we will be talkin I have a line on some interesting stuff top secret for now.
Thanks Dave Hitch

 

Not that I want to defend the antics of the late "Big" Bill France, but I gotta believe Smokey's full of hot air on this one. First, Teague died driving an semi-open wheel car in preparation for a USAC race...second, I think we need to keep in mind the spirit of the times. In those days Bill France WAS NASCAR...he was the 'boss', he called the shots. Not saying it was right...but he certainly wasn't any worse than the AAA (remember it was Bill Holland that was banned from that circuit for competing in a charity race down in Florida in 1950). From a historical perspective, Teague wasn't the only one that got on Big Bill's doo-doo list...Lee Petty was penalized over 800 points for participating in a non-sanctioned event in 1950 and it ended up costing him the points championship; Curtis Turner and Tim Flock were both 'banned' for life for trying to create a union for drivers...the list, I'm sure is quite lengthy.

While contemporaries might interpret France's actions as dictatorial and autocratic, one could argue that France did nothing more than to keep in step with his competitors...he tried to maintain the integrity of his organization...by force when/if necessary. Not saying it was right or ethical, but it certainly wasn't out of step with the times. In the end, I think history will look more kindly on the legacy of Bill France than his contemporaries ever would.

 

Hey, it THIS is what's called "hijacking" a thread, I LIKE it!

Hudsonator, you pointed out the speed records of the earliest Hudson straight 8. This would have come IMMEDIATELY on the heels of the famous Graham "Blue Streak," right? (Though, I seem to remember the Blue Streak Continental was a six.)

I don't mean to get off track, but it makes sense to ask questions AS they get touched upon -- otherwise, we might NEVER get back to a Hudson 8 or the Blue Streak CONTINENTAL of the early '30s again. People ALWAYS cared about performance, though economy was just as big a selling point, all through the ltter '20s and all through the '30s.

 

gwhite, France, Sr., certainly was the glue and the brains that made NASCAR the one really successful organization in a sea of -- what? -- a half-dozen stock-car groups the sprang up in the later '40s/early '50s.

What I still don't like about him (and how I tink history will ALWAYS see him) was his shoot-from-the-hip dictatorial ways. He could ruin a driver's career with a knee-jerk decision.

The age-old question is: Does the END justfy the MEANS?

 

Hudsonator, if you caught the '33 Essex Terraplane 8 front end in the Depp movie Public Enemies, you have a really good eye! The line in the movie is delivered something like "Johnny, I've got a Essex and a Plymouth for you" and there well in the background of the shot the black ET8 is only identifiable by the large headlamps unique to that particular model and year.

Posting a pic of an Essex Terraplane 8 convertible coupe I owned a long time ago. This car is NOT chopped - that is factory height on the top.

Of course Dillinger preferred sedans and two doors that were much less obvious to law enforcement ! These cars set something like 70 speed records for hill climbs like Mt. Washington and assorted races that were staged around the country back in 1933. You Ford V8 guys listening?

 

I think the "re-birth" of Essex as the terraplane was probably one of THE best early successful efforts to re-engineer and re-brand a car line. The Terraplane ironwork was beefed up, and concommitantly the brand gained a reputation for durability and value. The Terraplane's new success, for my 2 cents' worth, was a credit to both Essex and the Hudson parent company.

By contrast, just think how many times companies have simply cancelled a long-established make and simply brought out a whole NEW line? The end of LaSalle, for example, seemed pretty cruel & preemptory to me, while Hudson deftly phased out the Essex image and eased Terraplane in! The public loved it, despite the Depression.

 

The Weber setup does not fit well with plans to build a HA/GR dragster using the stroker engine. We've discussed the issue over on the HA/GR forum here at the HAMB. While nobody objected and the SDRA racers in Tulsa actually encouraged its use, I know in my heart that the manifold was not available until much later than the technological cutoff of the class. I guess what I'm saying is that even though I have the green light, I personally don't consider the setup as staying "within the spirit" of the class.

For the purpose of that class, it would be better to fabricate a triple WGD-type manifold or something of the nature. So, that's what I'll probably do or run a modified Twin-H or Edmunds. I'm not that conflicted about running a Clifford head, because the chamber is virtually a copy of the earlier Edmunds.

So, I'd be willing to part with the Weber setup for a good price or swap or some combination thereof. PM me and we'll discuss. I'd like to know about some of that super secret skunkworks stuff too. I have alot of skunkworks going on as well. A good sale of the webers would push the stroker along.

Hud

 

Gorgeous car! Do you have anymore pics of it? Those were the Hornets of their day. People remembering the reputation of the 8 is what kept it in the lineup so long, even after it was technologicly eclipsed.

The flathead Ford V8 guys never listen, they don't want to. I don't think the Ford V8 could stand up to a good flathead mopar 230, much less handle a Hudson in any capacity. I hope by next year the HA/GR Ford V8 cars are contending with a mopar amongst them and I can scare the heck out of the Jimmy powered cars.

Hud

 

You guys keep bringing up the 230 MoPar. It HAD to have been a pretty darn good enigne, as it was the only flatty kept in ocmmercial production until the new slant-6 was brought out.

I have a 230 in my '38 Plymouth now. Came from a '55 Dodge panel truck. If I can't come up with a 330 DeS to rebuild, I guess the 230 will stay right where it IS.

 

Terraplane, the Hornet of its day in the early '30s! GOOD to hear a comment like that. Hotrodding really had roots going all the way back to the early days of mass-production after WWI, in my opinion. Sure, there wasn't much swapping going on, BUT people really cared about performance ( I can IMAGINE, the younger GUYS really paid close attention to all the competitive EVENTS & PROMOS, like endurance runs, economy runs, cross-country runs, Pike's Peak -- everything).

But after WWII, a lot of THOSE boys had a little money & there were LOTS of '20s/'30s cars to be had for a SONG!!! Hotrodding shifted into high gear -- and hasn't let up.

 

Actually it was in production until the 1970's for industrial/agricultural applications. A fine engine indeed!

 

THANKS, gwhite! Yup, I meant for passenger cars/pickups, BUT you have a good point.

AND, I read the 265 MoPar flatty was still being used by the military (U.S, Canadian, etc.) until about '69. NO WONDER parts for 230s & 265s aren't too hard!

 

Thanks. Here is another pic. I need to PhotoShop out the EX. I was younger and less wise. Oh well. I wish I had kept a pic of the engine for y'all. Can't find one!

Someone out there sometime will be reading this thread and will say "But there is the FAMOUS letter from Dillinger to Ford about how great Henry's cars were". Whoever you are, I want you to check with the Dillinger Museum in Hammond, Indiana, because you will discover that letter has been proven to be a forgery made up by a Ford devotee. Dillinger did NOT write it. By the way, they have or did have one of Dillinger's Terraplane 8 sedans at the museum!

 

Hey Hudsonator how about a pic of your Super Wasp.

 

I don't have very many pictures of it, and its not spectacular anyhow. Its a driver bought by accident, which is a story in itself. Great daily driver and I've beat on it alot. This picture was actually taken on a little family outing we took in the Wasp. I have no idea how many miles I've actually put on that car.

 

Looks like a happy Hudson moment, thanks for pic.
Here is a 51 Hudson brochure featuring Marshall Teague.

 

A 308 with twin H and my modest pacemaker

 

Show 'em OFF, guys! Lotta FUN here lately!!!

 

That's a very nice Pacemaker. I've looked at some other pics of it elsewhere on the HAMB - I like your approach and am more impressed to see what's under the hood.

Hud

 

The custom ripple caps are perfect for a Hudson! Ride on!

 

A friend of mine had a Hudson back in the mid 60's that ran in the 12's in the 1/4 mile.Definitly a hot rod. I asked him if he ever raced for pinks he said he got some high school kid from Santa Monica with a new Mustang to race him. The kid musta though that that old lump of iron was a stone. I asked my friend what he did with the Mustang. Well the kid started crying and was about to get his lunch handed to him by his father so my friend let him off the hook. I always knew my friend had a heart. My friend is Mikio Yoshiyoka and he owned the STONE "T" fuel altered. Just love the stories I have heard over the years.

 

It sounds like one of those things you get from the help section at the local parts store, to keep the plug from fouling when its burning oil.

 

Skrayp, those are called "non-foulers." I think RustyNY means the head has the #4 hole bored out bigger than stock, so it's some OTHER type insert/adapter, if I follow his post.