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Technical 300 6cyl in a shoebox?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Pipes, Oct 13, 2017.

  1. Tony Ray
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 963

    Tony Ray
    Member

    I do have a 4 sp t 10 trans but it came with the 283. Not sure if I can switch it over to fit the 300 or not. Never messed with Chevy stuff before. All seems backwards to me The c-4 I have was built up for street and strip, has reverse manual valve body and a 3500 stall speed converter. The plan was to use the 347 stroker, the c4, ,the aluminum radiator , oil cooler and the 3:70 with Detroit softlock center section from the mustang. Then put the old motor back in that and set it up so it’s a nice driver for wife. I know I can use most of those parts with the 300, and as much fun as the 347 would be I need to find out if it has a broken ring or it’s something worst from the guys that built it. My dad raced the 300 in his falcon in B modified back in the early 70s until he was up at pleasantville ,I think he said it was. That was a round track and they used to drag race on the straightaway. Unfortunately with the angle of the track and some oil that they missed from a previous car the car hit the patch of oil and spun out and smashed into the wall totaling his falcon sedan delivery. He had the motor rebuilt again, then bought a 70 maverick and had Carol bar and custom paint on it and planned to get really serious, but his dad convinced him to give it up. He sold the car but kept the motors and they been sitting in a garage ever since. I always wanted to get another falcon just to put his motor in it and give it to him. The man is 67 years old and still loves drag racing , nascar and anything to do with speed. He is an over the road truck driver and I barely see him except maybe once or twice a week between loads. This is kinda why I’m leaning towards putting the 6 in my car. It would give him something to help me with that was part his. At least until I find that falcon or maverick to swap his motor in and give it to him..
     
    Blues4U likes this.
  2. Tony Ray
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 963

    Tony Ray
    Member

    I did that this morning, and he still has the 240/ 300 sixes listed on his website. The headi have must have been from before 1971 it’s the bare head, my dad had planned on swapping it on the engine that was built, but gave it up before he could. Not sure how much that head is worth, but now,I think the company wanted close to 2 grand to just do work on the head according to the website.you supplied the head.
     
  3. F.O.G
    Joined: Oct 31, 2006
    Posts: 259

    F.O.G
    Member
    from Pacific,Mo

    The head you have may not be the best for street use, may be great for high rpm only.
    Is the Sissel name cast into it? If it is you may have a highly desireable item. I saw Sissel
    race in the mid '60's, his six cyl sounded like a swarm of bees, altered class I think.
     
  4. Tony Ray
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 963

    Tony Ray
    Member

    Think it is stamped on head, I will go out in a bit and see if I can get a pic of it


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  5. F.O.G
    Joined: Oct 31, 2006
    Posts: 259

    F.O.G
    Member
    from Pacific,Mo

    My memory is getting taxed here...BUT... he may be the guy that cut one cyl from the end of a
    small block Chevy head, aka SBC, (2 heads) and welded them together to use on the straight
    six, somebody did so giving Sissel credit can't be far off. Somebody on this board knows who
    did it you can be sure.
     
  6. Not sure how many of you are aware of this but with the Stock 6cyl in the 40-51 Fords the Rad mounted totally different in them and was a 6 cyl only unit. It mounted forward quite a bit on the Core Support, I'm thinking around 3 full inches. Someone find Pipes the actual measurement so he can move on with the 300. Also, just find a Ford top loader 4 speed!! Your not going to Drag Race this thing so make it Fun, not a job to drive. I'd even go one step further to point out that it's not your average Hot Rod Ford. I'd punch some Louvers for sure but not like everyone else. I'd do a double row on just the Passenger side right over those Webbers. Let Nose Pickers ask W.T.F? They'll be laying there head down trying to look in through them, that's some funny Shit to watch. Then open the hood and watch there faces.
    Just say,n
    The Wizzard
     
    Chavezk21, belair, Blues4U and 2 others like this.
  7. dan c
    Joined: Jan 30, 2012
    Posts: 2,178

    dan c
    Member

    my understanding is that the radiator will have to go farther forward than the one for the flathead 6. i believe there's a pickup oil pan with center sump. i once had a first-gen econoline with a 250 (stroked version of the 144-170-200) and it was a rip-snorter! those e-100s came with a 170 or 240 (same size as the 300) and 302 sbc's were a popular swap, so that 300 ought to work great. keep us posted!
     
  8. Tony Ray
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 963

    Tony Ray
    Member

    Dug out the head, it does have the valves and stuff in it. Not sure if he ran it, or bought it used, or was putting his stuff on it. will have to see if he remembers.
    Oh and it looks worst then it is, some scotchbrite cleans it right up, going to clean it and put it in he house.. IMG_1754.JPG IMG_1753.JPG IMG_1756.JPG

    I noticed a difference between the head on the 300 now and the Sissell head.. The one on the 300 seems like a stock head while the Sissell head has little plugs between where the head bolts and valve cover bolts go.. any idea why?
    the stock head..

    IMG_1758.JPG

    the Sissell head

    IMG_1759.JPG

    oh and here is the stamp... it is a Ford casting on it, but it has Sissell punched into it. IMG_1757.JPG
     
  9. F.O.G
    Joined: Oct 31, 2006
    Posts: 259

    F.O.G
    Member
    from Pacific,Mo

    Plugs look like same location as A.I.R. tubes. Combustion chambers have definitely been
    reworked. Contact Sissel for possible details on what they normally made the Comb chamber
    in cc's.
     
  10. Tony Ray
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 963

    Tony Ray
    Member

    Arnt the heads set up for the AIR tubes all later? Or did they have them in the late 60s early 70s? I know he was out of racing by 1973.
     
  11. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 5,135

    sunbeam
    Member

    Those plugs are for the air tubes. Chambers look like 240 heads. The 6 cyl Ford guy was Bruce Sezmore.
     
    patmanta likes this.
  12. dumprat
    Joined: Dec 27, 2006
    Posts: 2,961

    dumprat
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from b.c.

    Looks like some real good parts in that head regardless of its history.
     
  13. Tony Ray
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 963

    Tony Ray
    Member

    I guess the head could be from the other motor. They were building some hot setup with the 240 crank and rods in a 300.. I coulda sworn he said he had ordered the head from Sissell . But maybe it came with the other motor. I know about Bruce. My dad remember him running too. Think he may even have an article or two on him still. I believe both of them ran the same class at one time and he was part of the reason my dad was building up the maverick .


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  14. Tony Ray
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 963

    Tony Ray
    Member

    is there a site that you guys use that will identify a Borg Warner T-10 trans? I took pictures of all the casting marks on the main case and tailshafts , and i believe it is 10 spines for input shaft. I imagine its off a chevy because the previous owner of my car gave it to me, he had planned on using it with the 283 but said it hit the tunnel. every site i find ,goes on to talk about corvette transmission it seems, or what years chevy and ford used the t-10. trying ti figure out if its worth selling off to get a top loader for the 6.
     
  15. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 5,135

    sunbeam
    Member

    The front of the trans will have the typical Ford or Chevy pattern Ford started using the T10 in 62. If it as a ford it is most likely early bolt pattern. A 300 uses the same 6 bolt bellhousing as a 65up sbf Lakewood sells a housing for ether pattern
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2017
  16. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 3,389

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    I have put 300s in a few small cars:

    '64 Falcon / toploader / 9" w/ 5.42s
    '23T altered / toploader>clutchflite>powerglide / 9" 4.56
    '33 Willys coupe / C6 / 9" 3.50
    '71 Pinto / C4>powerglide / 9" 4.11
    '23T altered / PG / 9" 4.30
    '48 Anglia 240ci / C4 / 9" 3.08
    '49 Anglia / C4 / 9" 3.25
    '30s era champ car / C4 / 9" 3.25
    '30 roadster pickup / PG / 9" 2.47
    plus others for other people.
    I'd do whatever it takes to run one of these inline jewels.
    Remember that on a V8 the accessories are mounted in front of the balancer.
    On a six they are mounted behind the balancer, to the sides, so the difference is not that much.

    If you decide on a different intake and want to part with the Webers I can find a new home for them.
     
  17. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 3,389

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

  18. Tony Ray
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 963

    Tony Ray
    Member

    So I had sent an email to Sissel automotive and asked him about the head, wasn’t really expecting a response but surprisingly got one. Pretty much what we figured.. here is his response

    That is a 240 head looks to be in good shape. Clean it up lube the guides and check the springs for the cam you are using. That is a complete port and polish with over size valves good for street or race.

    Mike

    Now to find out if it’s feasible to run the 300 with a smaller cam And figure out if I can run this head on it since the one on the block is ported so thin it leaks, or go a different way. Talking to my Dad he said I prob should look into a different distributor instead of running that mag since I’ll be driving it on the street and he is sure they got something better now that would work. Next weekend there’s a swap meet I plan on selling off a tbucket frame, tri power intake for a t block and bunch of old station signs from the one my grandfather owned. Hopefully I may get someone interested in the 283 and the 4 speed and get cash up to get the 6 sorted out and maybe see it run before winter gets here.. at least that’s what I’m hoping the plan is..
     
  19. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,903

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Is it in yet?
     
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  20. Tony Ray
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 963

    Tony Ray
    Member

    I’m working on it! Got to sell this damn Chevy motor since I got no where to put it..figure take it out and fit the 6 in same day..
     
    gimpyshotrods likes this.
  21. Tony Ray
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 963

    Tony Ray
    Member

    Great, though I warn you, I may end up being a pain in your ass with me asking you questions since you seem to have a ton of 300 knowledge!
     
  22. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 3,389

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    The 240 head will raise the compression a half point. On a stocker from 8.4 to 8.9:1.
    You should have no problem installing a smaller cam, assuming the base circle on the lobes of the cam you have now is close to the diameter of the new one. Otherwise, a change in pushrod length may be necessary. Trendperform.com can supply pushrods in any desired length
    A regular Duraspark II ignition system will work well and is easy to do. Alternatively, you can use a Duraspark distributor and a GM HEI module for a good cheap system. See gofastforless.com for details.

    The mag is similar to the one I run. Best used for competrition.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2017
    Pipes likes this.
  23. Tony Ray
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 963

    Tony Ray
    Member

    Thanks!! I got the old cam card , gonna go dig it out now.. plus a few other goodies..
     
  24. Tony Ray
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 963

    Tony Ray
    Member

    man, ive been buggin the hell out of my dad lately with tons of questions and, my wife keeps telling me im like a 45 year old kid when it comes to this car and especially wanting to use my dads engine that he ran before i was even born.. Im trying to work a deal out with one of my buddies to see if i can "borrow" a little bit of his garage space to put the 6 up on an engine stand. hell i just want to see what it looks like with that Weber set up on it!. Did find a bunch more parts..a set of brand new 45 year old Hooker headers for 300 6 in a Maverick. Not sure if they will fit ,but my buddy is a welder so thats something..
    couple of solid flywheels and clutches, extra rockers,pushrods, rods pistons and tons of gaskets and jets for the webers.. (which were all in john deere packages.who knew??..) even a lift kit for the front end.. he did mention he thought about building a gasser at one time two, but im pretty sure this is not why he had this kit.. oh yeah and the cam card for the one thats in the complete motor I believe.. guessing i may want to go a little milder..
    IMG_1805.jpg IMG_1802.jpg IMG_1803.jpg 529894987.jpg
    He says there is a crank and he thinks a 4 bbl intake for it too.. hes gonna look this week.
     
  25. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 5,135

    sunbeam
    Member

    I ran a crane H272-2 with a 4 barrel and fuel injected exhaust manifolds made a nice street package. If you go with a big cam with lots of spring pressure go for good pushrods they are over 10" long and tend to flex with big spring pressures.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
    Pipes likes this.
  26. s55mercury66
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 3,980

    s55mercury66
    Member
    from SW Wyoming

    Bruce Sizemore ran heads that were sections of Boss heads, furnace brazed together by C J Batten, Romulus MI.
     
    Bearcat_V8 likes this.
  27. willowbilly3
    Joined: Jun 18, 2004
    Posts: 4,356

    willowbilly3
    Member Emeritus
    from Sturgis

    The stock head was always the big drawback to making real horsepower and as someone found out, it's easy to go through a water jacket. I have heard of the furnace brazed heads but would also take a hand made intake.. I would imagine Sissel did everything to a stock head that could be done, as good as you are going to get.
    I have used the Duraspark2 dist with gm module and the coil from an efi 351, works great. You would probably want to have the distributor recurved for your set up. I can't tune one carb, let alone a trio of Webers but dam that setup is cool, and rare too. I think it would be cool to have them sticking out of the hood.
     
  28. willowbilly3
    Joined: Jun 18, 2004
    Posts: 4,356

    willowbilly3
    Member Emeritus
    from Sturgis

    Over on Fordsix a few years back there was still rumblings about someone making a crossflow head but it seems like the project had gotten bogged down after a couple prototypes. One was made for the 250 but that's a whole different cat.
     
  29. Pipes, with all of those cool pats you need to get that together and get it in the car.
     
  30. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 3,389

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    A couple more comments:

    Notice the usable RPM range on the cam card - 5-7 K RPM.

    I built an engine using those aluminum Superods. I know aluminum rods have a finite life span. Through my own negligence I neglected to change the rods and on run number 294 I broke one and put it through the side of my extensively modified block. (I joke that after that I changed rods when I got to 293 passes.) Anyway, I would not use any aluminum rod without knowing their life history.

    The pistons look like maybe Jahns brand.
     
    ottoman likes this.

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