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Technical 300 6cyl in a shoebox?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Tony Ray, Oct 13, 2017.

  1. Tony Ray
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 1,007

    Tony Ray
    Member

    Trying to find info and coming up short. I know lots of people swap out the flat 6 or v8 for a modern v8, I was planning to do the same. Like most things you start on one thing and next thing you know that snowballs. For me it was reading and article on putting trips on a car, which made me think.. man I bet that would look good in my 51.. then I looked at the prices and was like wow a nice 4 barrel would look good in my car... but wait multiple carbs.. really dig them.. and I happen to have a set.. except it’s Webber’s for my dads old 300 inline 6 that he used to race.. which then made me wonder.. man wouldn’t it be cool if I could put his old motor in my car and surprise him that they finally got used.. Like I said snowballed..
    Anyway the thing is my 51 came with a 6 from what the previous owner told me... but he stuck a 283 in it. I’m a ford guy so I’m selling that off, along with the borg Warner t 10 4 speed. I don’t want to cut up the firewall. I was planning on taking out the stroker motor in my 68 mustang and swapping everything into the 51 but it has a broken ring that needs to be fixed first. I know that c-4 trans will bolt up to the 300 but I don’t know how much longer the 300 is to a stock flathead 6. Does anyone have any idea? If they are close then I think I’m gonna try to surprise my pops.
     
    Cosmo49 and chriseakin like this.
  2. shivasdad
    Joined: May 27, 2007
    Posts: 564

    shivasdad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Texas

    I have no idea on the comparable sizes of the flathead six but I love the 300. I have parts for at least one more complete engine. Watching this to see if it can be done without cutting the firewall.
     
    droppedstepside likes this.
  3. ...do it whatever it takes, it'll be so cool...
     
  4. patmanta
    Joined: May 10, 2011
    Posts: 3,708

    patmanta
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Woburn, MA
    1. MASSACHUSETTS HAMB

    How long is a flathead six?

    IIRC, my Ford 300 (sitting under my shelf) is 30" depending on where you measure.
     

  5. NewGuyOldFord
    Joined: Jan 17, 2011
    Posts: 586

    NewGuyOldFord
    Member

    I'd say do it. It can't be much longer than the 223 that came in my 58 ford. I know the 51 is smaller but I still think it's doable.
     
  6. czuch
    Joined: Sep 23, 2008
    Posts: 2,688

    czuch
    Member
    from vail az

    That is a winning combo.
     
  7. flatheadpete
    Joined: Oct 29, 2003
    Posts: 10,185

    flatheadpete
    Member
    from Burton, MI

    Bulletproof. Now you have me thinking...
     
  8. FrozenMerc
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 2,733

    FrozenMerc
    Member

    300's are typically about 36" from the water pump / fan pulley to the bellhousing face. They are also quite tall, which actually may be a bigger problem then the length. But the intake and exhaust is on the right side, so no steering clearance issues to worry about, and there is a huge amount of aftermarket support for that motor. I say go for it. and if you end up having to cut the firewall or tunnel, I would swap the C4 idea for an AOD, much better highway cruising manners.
     
    JeffB2 and patmanta like this.
  9. Tony Ray
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 1,007

    Tony Ray
    Member

    Thanks for all the great feed back. So I talked to my dad about the 6s. He has two, one was supposed to be type of stroker deal with a different crank and rods and pistons that some guy had done, but the pistons were right up top by the deck, so he never used it. The other was the one he raced in his 64 falcon sedan delivery. He told me his best time in 1971 was 11.02 in the quarter, any remember the mph. They found out the reason he couldn’t get slower was he was running 522 gears in the back and he shoulda gone higher I think he said. The one issue with the 6 was they ported the heads out so much the back port leaked water becaus it was so thin. He does have another head there that he had bought. It’s supposed to be some sort of performance head. I believe it is stamped Sissel on it. Been awhile since I looked at it. He used to run a Super T-10 crashbox 4 speed from Ohio racing in it. I know years ago as a teen I was going to use it in my 68 mustang and my cousin tore it apart to put synchronizer a in it then called me up and said it didn’t have any and every other tooth was cut out so I couldn’t use it for my street car. Unfortunately my dad sold it a few years later pretty cheap. I do have an early cast iron B -W T-10 that came with the car but it was for the 283 Chevy the previous one put in the car..

    Decisions decisions...
     
  10. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,024

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

    There is a relief in the center of the firewall not sure if high enough but don't think any one would diss you to move it up some..Radiator if still the 6L should have the brackets giving the radiator a farther forward mounting than a V8 in the core support, I can tell by a pic..To me the biggest problem is the oil pan..Stock 300 are pretty much center sump so you'd need to fab a rear sump/pick up to clear steering and maybe still need a dropped center link....
     
  11. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 29,517

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Just went out and measured my 254 flathead six, and it is right at 34 inches from the back of the head to the front edge of the fan. Top of head bolts are 7 inches above the top of the bellhousing area of the block that sticks out about an inch from the back of the block.
    Here is a link with some measurements for the 300 https://fordsix.com/viewtopic.php?t=20500six
     
    graveyardsledder and Pipes like this.
  12. Tony Ray
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 1,007

    Tony Ray
    Member

    Thanks!
     
  13. Tony Ray
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 1,007

    Tony Ray
    Member

    ok just got home and went right to the 51 with a tape..
    IMG_1738.jpg
    an this is what i came up with from the firewall to the radiator support.. So then out to the shed and pulled off some blankets to uncover this..
    IMG_1735 (1).jpg
    and measured from water pump snout to bell housing and came up with about 33..Still not sure if i will need to modify the fire wall, depends if i can get the radiator to move forward?? So while i was thinking about it i went down stairs and dug out a box and started taking stock of some parts.. and came across..
    IMG_1741.jpg
    and these... still not sure if i will need to modify the firewall..
    IMG_1743.jpg
    couple piles of gaskets still in packages and a bunch of jets..took off the last cover and stared at these for 10 mins trying to decide what to do...
    IMG_1739.jpg

    I now officially have a headache....
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
  14. RaginPin3Appl3
    Joined: Mar 31, 2016
    Posts: 1,172

    RaginPin3Appl3
    Member

    this is gonna be fun to watch. subscribed!
     
  15. For a rear sump pan use one from a 4x4 pickup or bronco.
     
    patmanta and Pipes like this.
  16. badgascoupe
    Joined: Jul 22, 2011
    Posts: 146

    badgascoupe
    Member

    Saw a guy @ Lebanon Valley turn 10's in a maverick with a 300 in it.
     
    Pipes likes this.
  17. I have two 300 six engines in my hoard. one has hedders and a stoch intake that had been welded up to make it into a 4 bbbl. the other is a fresh bored out block with all the new pistons and parts to put it back together. I bought the bored engine at a estate auction. I started to put it together but I don't like the looks of the crankshaft. They are a torque engine like a 292 chev or a nailhead.
     
  18. This sure brings back a lot of good memories. Back in 1972-75 I ran a Ford 300 in my 50 Chevy Sedan Delivery. It ran a Clifford 4bbl intake with a Offy cam and my hand built headers, a pair of 3 into 1 split headers. Man I loved that car. I really enjoyed showing the Die Hard GM guys what was making all that good 6 sound. Not to mention it drove like a Slot Car. (>: Yep, big smile!
    The Wizzard
     
    Pipes likes this.
  19. Tony Ray
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 1,007

    Tony Ray
    Member

    This its whats giving me such a headache.. I could put my 347 stroker motor in it, but then its just going to be another v8 in a shoebox. The 300 6 would be sorta tricked and would be the last thing what people would expect. I have the Clifford intake too, with the downdraft webers. To be honest, im just dying to use the those carbs on something. I think i can use the aluminum radiator from the mustang, and i know i can use the c-4 trans. I have to think the motor mount should line up somewhere near about where the flathead 6 used to... I just cant find a single site or article where someone used one in a shoebox..
     
    Pist-n-Broke likes this.
  20. Well the way I look at it Pipes is that if you have the skills to install a 347 V-8 in your 50 then doing a 300-6 is no different when it comes to Fab skills and work involved. It's just a simple choice to make. Don't be a Belly Button. Get on with it!
    The Wizzard
     
    belair, 6-bangertim and Pipes like this.
  21. Hollister Kopp
    Joined: Feb 21, 2015
    Posts: 24

    Hollister Kopp

    If I had that insane intake lying around, I wouldn't be on the fence about the swap. That 300 would be going in the car whatever it takes.

    Super cool.
     
    Pipes and 6-bangertim like this.
  22. aussie57wag
    Joined: Jul 13, 2011
    Posts: 233

    aussie57wag
    Member
    from australia

    Pipes likes this.
  23. They make a C6 that fits the 300 six. I know because I have one in the hoard. But if it was me I would put a stick shift in it. and run a set of 325 gear's
     
    Pipes likes this.
  24. Headache? I wish that was my headache. Do the 300 and leave the Mustang alone.
     
    Pipes likes this.
  25. southcross2631
    Joined: Jan 20, 2013
    Posts: 4,414

    southcross2631
    Member

    I say go for it. I used to have a 51 Chevy with a hopped up GMC 308 and it had an amazing sound.
    I ran straight pipes with no mufflers. Got a few tickets, but they were worth it just to hear that music.
     
    Pipes likes this.
  26. oldolds
    Joined: Oct 18, 2010
    Posts: 3,165

    oldolds
    Member

    With that intake on that engine in that car you need to figure out where the back carb will wind up.
    You just might have to cut a hole in the dash to have room for the air cleaner.
     
    Pipes likes this.
  27. 57Custom300
    Joined: Aug 21, 2009
    Posts: 1,362

    57Custom300
    Member
    from Arizona

    I say go for it. Best 6cyl Ford ever made. No wonder they quit making it.
     
    Pipes likes this.
  28. RacingRoger
    Joined: Sep 11, 2017
    Posts: 208

    RacingRoger
    Member

    Pipes, you're overlooking the obvious if you want to save your firewall....
    Put the radiator in the trunk!!! Of course you'll have to put louvers in the trunk lid (that's never cool, is it) ( pun intended), and an electric fan...but you'd eliminate the fan on the front of the water pump...and if it's still too long, go to a '50 grill . As for the 300 being too tall, I'm thinking graft in a long hood scoop (think 1953 Hudson, if not being pure Ford doesn't offend your sensibilities). At first, my post here was meant to be tongue-in-cheek, but the more I thought about it, I said "Hey...". Now I'm getting the headache....
     
    Pipes likes this.
  29. dumprat
    Joined: Dec 27, 2006
    Posts: 3,109

    dumprat
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from b.c.

    The 300 is only 1.5" longer than a 302. I have swapped them back and forth in trucks lots. The 302 has a 2" fan spacer the 300 has 1/2".
    And with a shoebox you can reverse the rad support bracket to gain a little extra length.
    When I put the 302 in mine I used the rad out of an 80's land cruiser diesel. The thing fit like an original part, even the shroud. Had to run a small flex fan.

    And the shoebox has lots of height to clear a six. That six carb intake and a good fourspeed would sure make it cool.
     
    patmanta, Blues4U and Pipes like this.
  30. F.O.G
    Joined: Oct 31, 2006
    Posts: 259

    F.O.G
    Member
    from Pacific,Mo

    Sissel? Probably from the world renown Kay Sissel from the sixties, NOBODY got more power
    and performance from six cylinders than Sissel, although I thought he was better known for GM
    sixes. Google him.
     
    6-bangertim likes this.

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